Black Dahlia Avenger - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

ZanzibarBlue · 11-25-2006, 02:12 PM

After reading this novel (written by a former LAPD detective who alleges that his father, a doctor by the name of Hodel, was the individual who murdered Elizabeth Short) I was interested to learn that post-war LA was known as the "City of Missing Persons" for the number of high-profile disappearances. The author conjectures that there were a team (2 or more, including his father) serial killers who were operating during that time. He points out that police received similar descriptions from witneesses regarding the perpetrators, including one described as a "swarthy man of Hispanic/Italian origin" (not the most conclusive evidence, I grant you). The author also speculates that one of their victims may have been the mother of James Ellroy, the novelist.

Anyone have any theories or heard of the "City of Missing Persons" era?

wiseguy182 · 11-25-2006, 08:16 PM

Well I can tell you that the group "Missing Persons" had a new wave hit in the early 80's with "Walking in L.A.", (with lyrics such as "Nobody walks in L.A.") A catchy tune from a somewhat underestimated band, IMO

Seriously though, it wouldn't surprise me that L.A. was known as the "city of missing persons". Never been there, but it's a pretty dangerous place from what I here. No offense to anyone living there.

nohwheregirl · 11-26-2006, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

Well I can tell you that the group "Missing Persons" had a new wave hit in the early 80's with "Walking in L.A.", (with lyrics such as "Nobody walks in L.A.") A catchy tune from a somewhat underestimated band, IMO

I wholeheartedly agree, wiseguy! Fantastic band.

kamy · 05-10-2007, 12:02 PM

It's interesting to note that in one of Sylvia Browne's books she "talks" with Elizabeth Short. Elizabeth tells Sylvia (who is in a trance-like state) that her killer was "Dr. H" and that he will someday be identified. Keep in mind that this book was out far before the Black Dahlia Avenger book was.

Depending on your beliefs, this is kinda cool

wiseguy182 · 05-11-2007, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamy

It's interesting to note that in one of Sylvia Browne's books she "talks" with Elizabeth Short. Elizabeth tells Sylvia (who is in a trance-like state) that her killer was "Dr. H" and that he will someday be identified. Keep in mind that this book was out far before the Black Dahlia Avenger book was.

Depending on your beliefs, this is kinda cool

Someone awhile back, I don't remember who, asked if there was ever a Sylvia Brown segment on Unsolved. I should have responded "I don't know, but if there was, it was probably a fraud segment as opposed to a psychic one."

While I do believe there are some credible psychics out there, several of whom have been profiled on Unsolved, Sylvia is not on of them. She is what's known as a "cold reader." In other words, she keeps guessing until she gets a "hit" (correct guess) and then builds off the hit.

This was the same person who said that the West Virginia miners were all going to be found alive, and then Shawn Hornbeck was dead. She said she could help find his body for several hundred dollars.

In addition, she plead no contest to securities fraud and was indicted on grand lareceny in 1992. (both her and her husband were indicted on several counts) Seems as if they told a couple investing moeny to them that their investment in a gold mining venture they owned would be used for immediate operating costs, instead the money was transferred to a fund for psychic research. Sylvia calls her critics 'ignorant'

kamy · 05-11-2007, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

Someone awhile back, I don't remember who, asked if there was ever a Sylvia Brown segment on Unsolved. I should have responded "I don't know, but if there was, it was probably a fraud segment as opposed to a psychic one."

While I do believe there are some credible psychics out there, several of whom have been profiled on Unsolved, Sylvia is not on of them. She is what's known as a "cold reader." In other words, she keeps guessing until she gets a "hit" (correct guess) and then builds off the hit.

This was the same person who said that the West Virginia miners were all going to be found alive, and then Shawn Hornbeck was dead. She said she could help find his body for several hundred dollars.

In addition, she plead no contest to securities fraud and was indicted on grand lareceny in 1992. (both her and her husband were indicted on several counts) Seems as if they told a couple investing moeny to them that their investment in a gold mining venture they owned would be used for immediate operating costs, instead the money was transferred to a fund for psychic research. Sylvia calls her critics 'ignorant'

I would like to know where you got your information. I'm not doubting you, I would just like to read it for myself, as I am a huge Sylvia fan. Not so much for her "psychic" abilities, but for her books which has "saved" my life. Her view on the afterlife and life in general just rings true in my heart. While no psychic can be 100% correct all the time, Sylvia agrees to this. I don't expect you to agree w/ me at all, this is a very controversal subject, I just want to know where you get your facts.

Eire · 05-11-2007, 10:27 AM

Here you go, Kamy:
http://www.answers.com/topic/sylvia-browne

I have to agree with wiseguy here, she's a cold reader with no real ability. Offering to find a missing boy to the tune of several hundred dollars per hour is pretty low. I used to admire Browne myself, then I learned what cold reading is. Then, I looked in to what she charges people for her "gift." Profiteering is too polite a word for what she does. Taking advantage of despearate people in pain is sickening.

I don't doubht psychics exist, but I do doubt that the ones we see on Montel or Maury are the real deal. The Hornbeck prediction was pretty big news after he was found alive.

Please don't take my comments as a direct insult towards you, you're entitled to your views as well as the rest of us. I mean no disprespect at all in what I've said.

Sorry for the long post, but I don't think Steve Hodel's father was the murderer. I remember reading that the photos he claimed were of Beth Short were in fact another woman. Every one has their pet theory on this case. Some seem plausible, some are just way out there. It's like Jack the Ripper, so many people claim they know who he was, but they all point to someone else.

kamy · 05-11-2007, 11:00 AM

Thanks for that link, I don't know what to think. I would like to believe her when she speaks of the afterlife and heaven because it is so assuring and comforting. Very interesting read, thanks again!

Eire · 05-11-2007, 11:28 AM

You're very welcome. I'm truly sorry it has you not knowing what to believe.

wiseguy182 · 05-12-2007, 12:12 AM

My theory about most psychics can be summed up in a sentence. "if they were really psychic, how come they don't predict themselves winning lottery numbers?" Instead they have to make their money through us. Pretty questionable.

I did get a laugh out of one of Sylvia's descriptions of Heaven: "There are no insects in Heaven unless one wants there to be."

Apostapler · 03-27-2009, 03:52 AM

I would think a psychic would volunteer their time with the police, but I don't follow police psychics much. I have read several of Browne's books and I like them, but I don't think she has any true ability. I can see why her descriptions of the afterlife are appealing, though.

Edit: Whoops, forgot I was reading the REALLY old threads! Sorry.

peachysquirt21 · 03-27-2009, 08:38 AM

Sylvia Browne is a quack. I use to think what this woman said was legit, I bought many of her books. After doing much research on her, I finally opened my eyes & saw what kind of a person she really is.

Here is a interesting link to check out. Just read over the articles.
http://stopsylvia.com/home/

Lots of people believed in this woman only to finally realize she is nothing but a fraud.

kamy · 03-27-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peachysquirt21

Sylvia Browne is a quack. I use to think what this woman said was legit, I bought many of her books. After doing much research on her, I finally opened my eyes & saw what kind of a person she really is.

Here is a interesting link to check out. Just read over the articles.
http://stopsylvia.com/home/

Lots of people believed in this woman only to finally realize she is nothing but a fraud.

stopsylvia.com is an excellent website. I used to be a HUGE Sylvia fan, even turning some of my family members on to her. A lot of research, especially that website, opened my eyes; Sylvia is nothing but a lying, cheating, charlatan. FRAUD!

She claims to have to charge so much for readings because she is so busy doing FREE work for police departments, none of which can be proven, and she claims to not charge to help on missing person cases, yet time and time again she has demanded as little as $750 for her time (Shawn Hornbeck).

I won't even bring up all her manipulation and lies concerning the text of various religious works (most notably the Bible).

The things she has done and said to people; nothing is more convincing then the testimonies of her own staff that left her "church" after seeing her true colors. The whole Shawn Hornbeck situation brought some of it to light, but reading over the articles on the stopsylvia website introduces so much more, we are just at the tip of the iceberg in seeing Ms. Browne for what she truly is.

TracyLynnS · 03-27-2009, 10:16 AM

Kamy, I'm sorry that it's turned out that someone you deeply trusted has turned out to be unworthy of your devotion. I noticed in the older posts that you mentioned one thing that made you feel comforted by Sylvia's books was her description of heaven and the afterlife. I was just wondering if you've ever considered simple christianity? (Pretty nifty heaven and afterlife, imo.)

Sylvia seemed to keep changing her religious teachings through the years to suit her needs, and the biggest red flag to me was that she sort of linked her religions to christianity, but put her own twist on them. They had the signs of a cult, like david koresh or jim jones. That stuff is scary.

One thing I can guarantee is that no one person has the only direct line to God. These cult leaders found a "church" and gather a few dozen or a few hundred members and claim to have the only ticket to heaven.

But how odd that throughout all of time, God would have chosen only a hand full of people (from the 20th century) to go to heaven, and leave no options for the billions of people living before and after those few. He wouldn't do it. It would defeat the purpose of why he created people in the first place.

kamy · 03-27-2009, 11:12 PM

Thank you TracyLynn---Actually, yes, I was (somewhat) raised Christian and turned away from it for years out of ignorance. At the time, Sylvia "gave" me what I wanted out of Christianity and it was all fine for a while, but you can't make your own form of Christianity, or any religion for that matter. She took the good stuff and left the rest. And she actually recommends doing that with any religion, "take what you want and leave the rest"---regardless of your faith, that doesn't save you.

I'm not bitter or cynical concerning her by any means; it will be 2 yrs ago in August that I got saved and became a born again Christian. I guess I feel a certain amount of guilt for turning a few members of my family and even my best friend on to her. A couple of them still think she is the best thing since sliced bread, but I hope and pray it's only a matter of time until they see her for who she really is.

She does turn my stomach though, and I think about all the people she has knowingly mislead and fooled, I'm grateful that I'm no longer one of them. I had her entire book collection and last summer I sold them all on ebay and included homemade bookmarks with the logo of www.stopsylvia.com (with Robert Lancaster's permission). I was surprised to not get any feedback or comments! I'm wondering how many people actually checked out the website.

11-25-2006, 02:12 PM	#1
ZanzibarBlue ZanzibarBlue Occasional Poster Join Date: Aug 03, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 95	Black Dahlia Avenger After reading this novel (written by a former LAPD detective who alleges that his father, a doctor by the name of Hodel, was the individual who murdered Elizabeth Short) I was interested to learn that post-war LA was known as the "City of Missing Persons" for the number of high-profile disappearances. The author conjectures that there were a team (2 or more, including his father) serial killers who were operating during that time. He points out that police received similar descriptions from witneesses regarding the perpetrators, including one described as a "swarthy man of Hispanic/Italian origin" (not the most conclusive evidence, I grant you). The author also speculates that one of their victims may have been the mother of James Ellroy, the novelist. Anyone have any theories or heard of the "City of Missing Persons" era?

05-10-2007, 12:02 PM	#4
kamy UM Fanatic Forum Regular Join Date: Apr 25, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 625	Black Dahlia It's interesting to note that in one of Sylvia Browne's books she "talks" with Elizabeth Short. Elizabeth tells Sylvia (who is in a trance-like state) that her killer was "Dr. H" and that he will someday be identified. Keep in mind that this book was out far before the Black Dahlia Avenger book was. Depending on your beliefs, this is kinda cool

05-11-2007, 11:00 AM	#8
kamy UM Fanatic Forum Regular Join Date: Apr 25, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 625	Oh man Thanks for that link, I don't know what to think. I would like to believe her when she speaks of the afterlife and heaven because it is so assuring and comforting. Very interesting read, thanks again!

11-25-2006, 08:16 PM	#2
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	Well I can tell you that the group "Missing Persons" had a new wave hit in the early 80's with "Walking in L.A.", (with lyrics such as "Nobody walks in L.A.") A catchy tune from a somewhat underestimated band, IMO Seriously though, it wouldn't surprise me that L.A. was known as the "city of missing persons". Never been there, but it's a pretty dangerous place from what I here. No offense to anyone living there.

05-11-2007, 10:27 AM	#7
Eire Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 05, 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 85	Here you go, Kamy: http://www.answers.com/topic/sylvia-browne I have to agree with wiseguy here, she's a cold reader with no real ability. Offering to find a missing boy to the tune of several hundred dollars per hour is pretty low. I used to admire Browne myself, then I learned what cold reading is. Then, I looked in to what she charges people for her "gift." Profiteering is too polite a word for what she does. Taking advantage of despearate people in pain is sickening. I don't doubht psychics exist, but I do doubt that the ones we see on Montel or Maury are the real deal. The Hornbeck prediction was pretty big news after he was found alive. Please don't take my comments as a direct insult towards you, you're entitled to your views as well as the rest of us. I mean no disprespect at all in what I've said. Sorry for the long post, but I don't think Steve Hodel's father was the murderer. I remember reading that the photos he claimed were of Beth Short were in fact another woman. Every one has their pet theory on this case. Some seem plausible, some are just way out there. It's like Jack the Ripper, so many people claim they know who he was, but they all point to someone else.

05-11-2007, 11:28 AM	#9
Eire Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 05, 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 85	You're very welcome. I'm truly sorry it has you not knowing what to believe.

05-12-2007, 12:12 AM	#10
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	My theory about most psychics can be summed up in a sentence. "if they were really psychic, how come they don't predict themselves winning lottery numbers?" Instead they have to make their money through us. Pretty questionable. I did get a laugh out of one of Sylvia's descriptions of Heaven: "There are no insects in Heaven unless one wants there to be."

03-27-2009, 03:52 AM	#11
Apostapler Member Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 06, 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 872	I would think a psychic would volunteer their time with the police, but I don't follow police psychics much. I have read several of Browne's books and I like them, but I don't think she has any true ability. I can see why her descriptions of the afterlife are appealing, though. Edit: Whoops, forgot I was reading the REALLY old threads! Sorry.

03-27-2009, 08:38 AM	#12
peachysquirt21 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 27, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 462	Sylvia Browne is a quack. I use to think what this woman said was legit, I bought many of her books. After doing much research on her, I finally opened my eyes & saw what kind of a person she really is. Here is a interesting link to check out. Just read over the articles. http://stopsylvia.com/home/ Lots of people believed in this woman only to finally realize she is nothing but a fraud.

03-27-2009, 10:16 AM	#14
TracyLynnS Don't Look Up Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 3,107	Kamy, I'm sorry that it's turned out that someone you deeply trusted has turned out to be unworthy of your devotion. I noticed in the older posts that you mentioned one thing that made you feel comforted by Sylvia's books was her description of heaven and the afterlife. I was just wondering if you've ever considered simple christianity? (Pretty nifty heaven and afterlife, imo.) Sylvia seemed to keep changing her religious teachings through the years to suit her needs, and the biggest red flag to me was that she sort of linked her religions to christianity, but put her own twist on them. They had the signs of a cult, like david koresh or jim jones. That stuff is scary. One thing I can guarantee is that no one person has the only direct line to God. These cult leaders found a "church" and gather a few dozen or a few hundred members and claim to have the only ticket to heaven. But how odd that throughout all of time, God would have chosen only a hand full of people (from the 20th century) to go to heaven, and leave no options for the billions of people living before and after those few. He wouldn't do it. It would defeat the purpose of why he created people in the first place.

03-27-2009, 11:12 PM	#15
kamy UM Fanatic Forum Regular Join Date: Apr 25, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 625	Thank you TracyLynn---Actually, yes, I was (somewhat) raised Christian and turned away from it for years out of ignorance. At the time, Sylvia "gave" me what I wanted out of Christianity and it was all fine for a while, but you can't make your own form of Christianity, or any religion for that matter. She took the good stuff and left the rest. And she actually recommends doing that with any religion, "take what you want and leave the rest"---regardless of your faith, that doesn't save you. I'm not bitter or cynical concerning her by any means; it will be 2 yrs ago in August that I got saved and became a born again Christian. I guess I feel a certain amount of guilt for turning a few members of my family and even my best friend on to her. A couple of them still think she is the best thing since sliced bread, but I hope and pray it's only a matter of time until they see her for who she really is. She does turn my stomach though, and I think about all the people she has knowingly mislead and fooled, I'm grateful that I'm no longer one of them. I had her entire book collection and last summer I sold them all on ebay and included homemade bookmarks with the logo of www.stopsylvia.com (with Robert Lancaster's permission). I was surprised to not get any feedback or comments! I'm wondering how many people actually checked out the website.