Cast Confusion-Help!

[Madame X]

I have been having a lot of trouble finding episode cast lists for the Honeymooners. I usually use IMDb, but I am finding a discrepancy. I know "Mrs. Gibson" (Alice's mother) is Ethel Owen. But in some episodes, like "Hello, Mom," and "99,000 Answer," they list "Mrs. Gibson"-Ethel Owen AND "Alice's Mother"-Rita Colton.

I think they screwed up because "Mrs. Gibson" IS Alice's mother. Is Rita Colton actually Ralph's mother?

Is there anywhere to get accurate cast lists? They never show anyone in the closing credits.

[W.B.]

Originally Posted by Madame X

I have been having a lot of trouble finding episode cast lists for the Honeymooners. I usually use IMDb, but I am finding a discrepancy. I know "Mrs. Gibson" (Alice's mother) is Ethel Owen. But in some episodes, like "Hello, Mom," and "99,000 Answer," they list "Mrs. Gibson"-Ethel Owen AND "Alice's Mother"-Rita Colton.

I think they screwed up because "Mrs. Gibson" IS Alice's mother. Is Rita Colton actually Ralph's mother?

Is there anywhere to get accurate cast lists? They never show anyone in the closing credits.

Ms. Owen indeed played Alice's mother - Rita Colton was actually the "hostess" in the ending scene, who escorted Ralph off the stage as he was naming various songs via word associations ("'Please' was sung by Bing Crosby in The Big Broadcast of 1933, written by Robin and Rainger . . . "). Why anybody would have listed Ms. Colton as Alice's mother, is anyone's guess. As I am a registered IMDb user, I certainly wouldn't have.

[Bill S.]

So who played Ralph's mother then? I've also noticed that IMDB isn't very accurate. I wish they had the Lost episodes on there, there's a lot of actors and actresses that I'd like to know the name of. Like the school teacher at the beginning of "Cupid" that Ralph spills the coffee on for example.

[Madame X]

Right, Bill. Where can we get accurate info? We can get everything on "My Sister Sam," "Hello Larry" and "The Brady Brides" but nothing on the show that started it all.

[W.B.]

Originally Posted by Bill S.

So who played Ralph's mother then? I've also noticed that IMDB isn't very accurate. I wish they had the Lost episodes on there, there's a lot of actors and actresses that I'd like to know the name of. Like the school teacher at the beginning of "Cupid" that Ralph spills the coffee on for example.

You are not alone on that score; I too am as interested about such mystery individuals. One place to start would be the Classic Sitcoms book. Because they don't say who played who, it'd likely be one of those "process of elimination" deals.

[Bill S.]

Originally Posted by Madame X

Right, Bill. Where can we get accurate info? We can get everything on "My Sister Sam," "Hello Larry" and "The Brady Brides" but nothing on the show that started it all.

Well, the show that started it all started out as a sketch on a variety show so that complicates things. At the end of the original broadcasts of some of the Lost Episodes, they mention some of the guest stars, but it's usually only the regulars like Frank Marth and George Petrie. There's almost no hope in finding out who played some of those extra Racoons at the lodge or any other minor characters.

Originally Posted by W.B.

You are not alone on that score; I too am as interested about such mystery individuals. One place to start would be the Classic Sitcoms book. Because they don't say who played who, it'd likely be one of those "process of elimination" deals.

They didn't mention guest stars on the Gleason Show in TV Guide did they? Some of these actors and actresses had to have been credited somewhere. I'd love to sit down with someone that was around back then, like Leonard Stern, and just go through episode after episode.

[W.B.]

Originally Posted by Bill S.

They didn't mention guest stars on the Gleason Show in TV Guide did they? Some of these actors and actresses had to have been credited somewhere. I'd love to sit down with someone that was around back then, like Leonard Stern, and just go through episode after episode.

Funny you ask . . . TV Guides from 1955-56 when the "Classic 39" first aired listed supporting actors - but sometimes the cast list differed from the time the listings were printed to who was actually on. In the case of "Brother Ralph," for example, they listed Robert Middleton (a.k.a. Mr. Marshall in the Lost 1953 episode "Letter to the Boss") as playing Alice's boss - but in the actual episode, Tony Amico was played by John Holland. (I suppose Middleton looked too much like the real Amico, if judging from a photo I saw of Gleason and Amico once.) Another time, with "Here Comes the Bride," the role of Agnes was said to be played by an actress named Patricia Hosley, when (per the book Classic Sitcoms) one Treva Frazee played the role.

There was, from the TV Guides of the time, one role I uncovered that I was able to correlate with a headshot from a contemporary version of the Players' Guide directory (which was/is to New York what the Academy Players' Directory is to Hollywood and The Spotlight is to London) - the role of Judy Connors in "Young at Heart" was played by one Suzanne (a.k.a. Susie) Miller. Peter Crescenti, in a phone conversation with me around 1986 after I uncovered her as "Angel Cake," told me she had no memory whatsoever of ever having been on the show. And I haven't seen any credits of her under either name on IMDb, otherwise she'd've been accounted for in that venerable database.

It was from TV Guides (and Players' Guides) that I was able to find that John Griggs was Mr. Marshall (and, in "The Golfer," Mr. Harper) - and Jack Davis was Mr. Parker in "The $99,000 Answer," and an arresting officer in "Funny Money" - and Luis Van Rooten was Mr. Johnson - and Peter Lazer was Harvey Wohlstetter Jr. - and so forth.

[Bill S.]

Originally Posted by W.B.

In the case of "Brother Ralph," for example, they listed Robert Middleton (a.k.a. Mr. Marshall in the Lost 1953 episode "Letter to the Boss") as playing Alice's boss - but in the actual episode, Tony Amico was played by John Holland. (I suppose Middleton looked too much like the real Amico, if judging from a photo I saw of Gleason and Amico once.)

So there was an actual person named Tony Amico that resembled the actor who played Mr. Marshall in "Letter To The Boss"? I know Gleason incorporated some of his friends names into the show, like "Bullets" Durgom for example, but I didn't know about this.

Originally Posted by W.B.

the role of Judy Connors in "Young at Heart" was played by one Suzanne (a.k.a. Susie) Miller. Peter Crescenti, in a phone conversation with me around 1986 after I uncovered her as "Angel Cake," told me she had no memory whatsoever of ever having been on the show.

That's crazy that she would forget something like that. I found a few Suzanne Millers through Google, do you know if she's still alive or not?

[VIDEOWACK]

Originally Posted by Bill S.

So there was an actual person named Tony Amico that resembled the actor who played Mr. Marshall in "Letter To The Boss"? I know Gleason incorporated some of his friends names into the show, like "Bullets" Durgom for example, but I didn't know about this.

Yes, Tony Amico was Gleason's valet.