Moonlighting - Season Four DVD Review - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

TJ · 09-29-2006, 08:25 PM

Enjoyed Moonlighting so far? That’s great. Here’s where things start to get problematic. By the third season, the production crew was getting more and more behind schedule -- despite a full production order, the staff only got FOURTEEN shows produced -- hence the small number in this DVD set. In addition, this is the season when ratings begin to slide -- in part due to the frequent reruns, but also due to Maddie and David sleeping together at the end of season three -- the moment many feel the show “jump the shark” (IE: began its downward trend). In addition, due to Bruce’s growing movie career, his skiing accident, Cybill’s pregnancy…it just gets progressively more problematic. Then there’s Walter Bishop.

For the uninitiated -- as I was when I started this review series -- Moonlighting was a drama-comedy hybrid (a “dramedy”) take on the mass of detective series of that era. The show ran on ABC from 1985 for 1989, with a total of 66 episodes. The series revolved cases investigated by Maddie Hayes (Shepherd) and David Addison (Willis), the proprietors of Blue Moon Investigations. Hayes is a former model, who finds herself bankrupt after her accountant embezzles all of her liquid assets. She’s left only with a few failing businesses used as tax write-offs. One of these failed businesses is the agency, helmed by Addison. In the beginning of the show, he convinces her to help run the agency with him. The show also stared Allyce Beasley as Agnes DiPesto, the agency’s receptionist. By season 4, Curtis Armstrong had joined the cast as Herbert Viola. The series was noted both for its use of breaking the fourth wall, as well as its extensive use of fantasy sequences.

Read our review here:
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/moonlig...dvdreview.html

Post any questions or comments about this set.

laura a · 09-29-2006, 09:08 PM

You`d better run and take cover after a comment like that

No way did it jump the shark when David and Madde slept together , i mean ( i can`t speak for everyone else on this ) but i feel that it had to lead up to this point regardless of Cybills pregnancy , fair enough they may have been able to keep them apart for one more season but it would have been bordering on the insane . David and Maddie were both consenting adults with no commitments elsewhere and and yes `loved` each other so there was no reason to keep them from sleeping together.
I think people started to change channels because of the fact that David and Maddie stopped being together and even though we had some great episodes with some great cases ,without Bruce and Cybill together that extra special magic just wasn`t there.
At the end of the day i don`t think it would have mattered if they had slept together or not , it`s the events that happened afterwards that did!.

Your thoughts please

CyBr · 09-29-2006, 09:17 PM

I completely agree with you, Laura. I get so frustrated by the myth that the show went down hill because they slept together. The fans were patient with all the reruns as early as Season 3, but having them apart and some questionable plots twists in Season 4 is what did it. Also, Curtis Armstrong joined the show in Season 3, not Season 4.

Ro35 · 09-29-2006, 09:22 PM

Just wanted to add an AMEN to that to Laura! I believe true Moonlighting fans don't believe that the show "Jumped The Shark". It was definately the writers fault on the stupid storylines they came up with to keep them apart after they slept together that drove fans away. Other than that Season 4 is a pretty good season. Yes not enough Maddie and David together but still a good season. Way better than most of Season 5. JMHO!

jkalen · 09-30-2006, 02:38 AM

What kind of show would it have been if they never had slept together?! I don't even want to think about that! They ABSOLUTELY did not JTS doing it, imo.

Tamm · 10-01-2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkalen

What kind of show would it have been if they never had slept together?! I don't even want to think about that! They ABSOLUTELY did not JTS doing it, imo.

Totally agree with you. They HAD to get together

Luar · 10-02-2006, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laura a

I think people started to change channels because of the fact that David and Maddie stopped being together and even though we had some great episodes with some great cases ,without Bruce and Cybill together that extra special magic just wasn`t there.
At the end of the day i don`t think it would have mattered if they had slept together or not , it`s the events that happened afterwards that did!.

I perfectly agree with you Laura, I notice that watching now 4th season. I don't know why they don't understand it! I think ML could go still on if writers don't had lead up it to so disappointed ending.

MulberryGal · 10-02-2006, 05:56 AM

I agree that the show didn't jump the shark because Maddie and David slept together. In fact, the episode after they first slept together (To Heiress Human) was funny, warm and one of the best episodes they ever did. It also didn't JTS because Cybill was pregnant with twins or because Bruce was doing Die Hard or he injured himself. Even though these things caused stress for the show and to the actors and crew themselves.

It went downhill in early Season 4 because the writers started to write storylines and scenes for Maddie and David that weren't true to the characters and weren't true emotionally. (Glenn has admitted how badly he wrote the season 4 opener and that he made mistakes) Bruce and Cybill were having to act against type constantly in early Season 4 and most of Season 5. Cybill has always complained how the writers turned Maddie into a bitch. She's right, the character in Season 4 was awful compared to the complex, stroppy, but ultimately good person Maddie was in Seasons 1-3.

Seasons 1-3 saw Maddie break down many of her initial opinions about David and saw her grow as a person, and yet in early Season 4, she seems to have forgotten everything she'd learnt. We do see her becoming softer and nicer at the end of Season 4, but any hope us fans might have had, was squished in Season 5 with the Annie storyline and David being turned into a completely cold and awful pig. I wont mention Lunar Eclipse....

Let's not forget that Season 3 was personally and professionally stressful for the whole Moonlighting Team, however the writing and production and acting was so good, it didn't matter on screen.

I know I'm preaching to the converted here, but I just had to rant for a while!!

Mul
x

kismet · 10-02-2006, 08:41 AM

Maybe the show "jumped the shark" because Cybill didn't "jump the shark", i.e. Glenn Caron.

This idea was talked about on a recent thread on this site. I think it is something many of us have thought about over the years but have been afraid to bring up.

The direction her character took, and the very open and bitter feelings of Mr. Caron, are really starting to gel together.

Didn't you love it when Glenn kept apologizing to Bruce on A Trip To The Moon commentary? How about Glenn apologizes to Cybill for making Maddie into such a witch! When the show started, Maddie was a very likeable and very vulnerable woman. She became the show-bitch as David became the most loveable, likeable, do nothing wrong kind of guy. Everything bad on the show, and off the show, was blamed on Maddie and or Cybill.

MulberryGal · 10-02-2006, 11:39 AM

I think you might have a point here Kis....

On a related note, it makes me think - when they did that meet up for the Season 3 DVDs, I do wonder whether most of the awkwardness we noticed in that docu was between Glenn and Cybill and not Bruce and Cyb as people might assume. After all, Bruce and Cybill did hug affectionately like old comrades or old college friends who have fallen out of touch - and were very funny together when doing the commentary. I wish that Bruce and Cybill had done the commentary and interview on their own.....

Mul

laura a · 10-02-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kismet

Maybe the show "jumped the shark" because Cybill didn't "jump the shark", i.e. Glenn Caron.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with this.but i have a feeling that this is going to be a `sticky ` thread for some
And i remember discussing this and giving my view on this on the thread that Kis mentions

Sorry but i`m going to have to come back and talk later , hubbys just come in and i need to start dinner .

But i`ll be back , i have plenty to say on this.

Ps i liked the way Mulberry said that Bruce and Cybill hugged like old comrades or old collage friends, for a minute there i thought you were going to say PALS!

Tamm · 10-02-2006, 05:34 PM

No not pals, no

laura a · 10-02-2006, 08:43 PM

Hi , i said i`d get back on this one.
i understand where Kismet is coming from with this theory, Wer`e looking for a reason for why Glenn turned on Cybill like he did.Just to add to what kis is saying
There was that little comment that Glenn made when Bruce was talking about whether David loved Maddie or was just about the sex,which was something about everyone wanting the one person that they can`t have in life and people wanting the ying to their yang.
It may have mean`t nothing or it may have mean`t everything!

Like i said on the other thread i think that Glenn was incredible in ore of what Bruce and Cybill had maybe wished he could have been in Bruces shoes
so i think Glenn lived out his fantasies through David and Maddie which mean`t he was always in control of what happened in their relationship at least on-screen.
So maybe as he saw Bruce and Cybills off-screen relationship start to blossom he tried to keep him self in the loop and ( bare in mind in a lot of articles when ever Glenn was asked or talked about Bruce and Cybills great chemistry he always put himself in the picture too and to me he looked at it as some kind of three-some( no pun intended ).So maybe by chumming up with Bruce and focusing on Davids character and changing Maddie nearly beyond recognition was his way of saying " i don`t care how close you two get this is my show and i still have total control over the characters and therefore the actors who portray them.

Now don`t get me wrong Glenn was and is a great writer and even today is churning out great shows like Medium which i never miss but i do wonder if Glenn let his personal feelings cloud his judgement on a lot of the issues we have discussed on here.

Anyone else like to put their pennysworth in?

MulberryGal · 10-03-2006, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamm

No not pals, no

Oooh no, never 'pals'!

ovrthmn · 10-03-2006, 01:49 PM

I totally agree with you laura a. I have said this on some of my previous posts. There was definitely a personal agenda with Glen. Cybill was "the girl who was out of reach", yet he could have power over her by demonizing her character Maddie. I think he lived vicariously through Bruce/David and when he saw any connection or pairing of B & C on screen or off, he sabatoged it. What I can't believe is how vindictive and nasty he is still to this day. It really makes me cringe whenever I watch/hear the commentaries. He takes shots of Cybill at any chance he can get. On the most recent commentary with Bruce, he TOTALLY ignores Cybill's performance in the Honeymooners sequence, while mentioning EVERYONE. Come on Glen. And what was all of the apologizing about David loving Maddie????? I think those scenes were so sweet and sincere, showing David's growth. The two of them (Bruce & Glen) were so horrified with David admitting that he loved Maddie....I don't get it. I was also sick of hearing Glen say over and over again how he did not remember writing any of that episode. Instead of just admitting how or why he did not remain true to the characters and their situation and going forward and being able to make the storyline work, he's hiding behind excuses of memory lapses, Cybill's pregnancy, the "it was over when they had sex" line, etc...... He dropped the ball because of some stupid personal agenda, was punishing Cybill, and that is why the show suffered...period. The blame lands squarely on his shoulders. I had always thought that Cybill got the raw end of the deal whenever the show's demise was blamed on her, but now even more so. If it makes ME so sick to hear Glen babble on and on about it now, could you imagine what it must have been like for her to work in that environment back then???? I am amazed she lasted as long as she did!

Sorry........I'm ranting. Anyone else?

09-29-2006, 08:25 PM	#1
TJ Site Owner Administrator Forum Star Join Date: Feb 03, 2000 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 10,662	Moonlighting - Season Four DVD Review Enjoyed Moonlighting so far? That’s great. Here’s where things start to get problematic. By the third season, the production crew was getting more and more behind schedule -- despite a full production order, the staff only got FOURTEEN shows produced -- hence the small number in this DVD set. In addition, this is the season when ratings begin to slide -- in part due to the frequent reruns, but also due to Maddie and David sleeping together at the end of season three -- the moment many feel the show “jump the shark” (IE: began its downward trend). In addition, due to Bruce’s growing movie career, his skiing accident, Cybill’s pregnancy…it just gets progressively more problematic. Then there’s Walter Bishop. For the uninitiated -- as I was when I started this review series -- Moonlighting was a drama-comedy hybrid (a “dramedy”) take on the mass of detective series of that era. The show ran on ABC from 1985 for 1989, with a total of 66 episodes. The series revolved cases investigated by Maddie Hayes (Shepherd) and David Addison (Willis), the proprietors of Blue Moon Investigations. Hayes is a former model, who finds herself bankrupt after her accountant embezzles all of her liquid assets. She’s left only with a few failing businesses used as tax write-offs. One of these failed businesses is the agency, helmed by Addison. In the beginning of the show, he convinces her to help run the agency with him. The show also stared Allyce Beasley as Agnes DiPesto, the agency’s receptionist. By season 4, Curtis Armstrong had joined the cast as Herbert Viola. The series was noted both for its use of breaking the fourth wall, as well as its extensive use of fantasy sequences. Read our review here: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/moonlig...dvdreview.html Post any questions or comments about this set.

09-29-2006, 09:08 PM	#2
laura a moonlighting maniac! Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 30, 2005 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 376	You`d better run and take cover after a comment like that No way did it jump the shark when David and Madde slept together , i mean ( i can`t speak for everyone else on this ) but i feel that it had to lead up to this point regardless of Cybills pregnancy , fair enough they may have been able to keep them apart for one more season but it would have been bordering on the insane . David and Maddie were both consenting adults with no commitments elsewhere and and yes `loved` each other so there was no reason to keep them from sleeping together. I think people started to change channels because of the fact that David and Maddie stopped being together and even though we had some great episodes with some great cases ,without Bruce and Cybill together that extra special magic just wasn`t there. At the end of the day i don`t think it would have mattered if they had slept together or not , it`s the events that happened afterwards that did!. Your thoughts please
	__________________ Praying? Lose something? or did you finally come to your senses! Last edited by laura a; 09-30-2006 at 11:11 AM.

09-29-2006, 09:22 PM	#4
Ro35 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 23, 2005 Posts: 188	Just wanted to add an AMEN to that to Laura! I believe true Moonlighting fans don't believe that the show "Jumped The Shark". It was definately the writers fault on the stupid storylines they came up with to keep them apart after they slept together that drove fans away. Other than that Season 4 is a pretty good season. Yes not enough Maddie and David together but still a good season. Way better than most of Season 5. JMHO!
	__________________ ~ROSE~ Maddie : I wouldn't want you losing any more sleep over me. David : Believe me, if and when I ever find myself over you, the last thing I'll be thinking about is sleeping.

09-30-2006, 02:38 AM	#5
jkalen Moonlighting freak Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 20, 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 210	What kind of show would it have been if they never had slept together?! I don't even want to think about that! They ABSOLUTELY did not JTS doing it, imo.
	Last edited by jkalen; 10-01-2006 at 03:44 AM.

10-02-2006, 05:56 AM	#8
MulberryGal Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 04, 2004 Location: England Posts: 333	I agree that the show didn't jump the shark because Maddie and David slept together. In fact, the episode after they first slept together (To Heiress Human) was funny, warm and one of the best episodes they ever did. It also didn't JTS because Cybill was pregnant with twins or because Bruce was doing Die Hard or he injured himself. Even though these things caused stress for the show and to the actors and crew themselves. It went downhill in early Season 4 because the writers started to write storylines and scenes for Maddie and David that weren't true to the characters and weren't true emotionally. (Glenn has admitted how badly he wrote the season 4 opener and that he made mistakes) Bruce and Cybill were having to act against type constantly in early Season 4 and most of Season 5. Cybill has always complained how the writers turned Maddie into a bitch. She's right, the character in Season 4 was awful compared to the complex, stroppy, but ultimately good person Maddie was in Seasons 1-3. Seasons 1-3 saw Maddie break down many of her initial opinions about David and saw her grow as a person, and yet in early Season 4, she seems to have forgotten everything she'd learnt. We do see her becoming softer and nicer at the end of Season 4, but any hope us fans might have had, was squished in Season 5 with the Annie storyline and David being turned into a completely cold and awful pig. I wont mention Lunar Eclipse.... Let's not forget that Season 3 was personally and professionally stressful for the whole Moonlighting Team, however the writing and production and acting was so good, it didn't matter on screen. I know I'm preaching to the converted here, but I just had to rant for a while!! Mul x
	__________________ You can lead a horse to water but that doesn't make him a duck Maddie Hayes: I wouldn't want you losing any more sleep over me. David Addison : Believe me, if and when I ever find myself over you, the last thing I'll be thinking about is sleeping.

09-29-2006, 09:17 PM	#3
CyBr Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 17, 2004 Posts: 515	I completely agree with you, Laura. I get so frustrated by the myth that the show went down hill because they slept together. The fans were patient with all the reruns as early as Season 3, but having them apart and some questionable plots twists in Season 4 is what did it. Also, Curtis Armstrong joined the show in Season 3, not Season 4.

10-02-2006, 08:41 AM	#9
kismet I'm addicted too! Senior Member Join Date: Jul 14, 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,239	Maybe the show "jumped the shark" because Cybill didn't "jump the shark", i.e. Glenn Caron. This idea was talked about on a recent thread on this site. I think it is something many of us have thought about over the years but have been afraid to bring up. The direction her character took, and the very open and bitter feelings of Mr. Caron, are really starting to gel together. Didn't you love it when Glenn kept apologizing to Bruce on A Trip To The Moon commentary? How about Glenn apologizes to Cybill for making Maddie into such a witch! When the show started, Maddie was a very likeable and very vulnerable woman. She became the show-bitch as David became the most loveable, likeable, do nothing wrong kind of guy. Everything bad on the show, and off the show, was blamed on Maddie and or Cybill.
	__________________ "....being crazy 'bout a woman like HER is ALWAYS the right thing to do." -- TLPS "The only thing new under the sun is the truth you don't know." -- BW "What a babe. What a dish!" -- BW re CS

10-02-2006, 11:39 AM	#10
MulberryGal Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 04, 2004 Location: England Posts: 333	I think you might have a point here Kis.... On a related note, it makes me think - when they did that meet up for the Season 3 DVDs, I do wonder whether most of the awkwardness we noticed in that docu was between Glenn and Cybill and not Bruce and Cyb as people might assume. After all, Bruce and Cybill did hug affectionately like old comrades or old college friends who have fallen out of touch - and were very funny together when doing the commentary. I wish that Bruce and Cybill had done the commentary and interview on their own..... Mul

10-02-2006, 05:34 PM	#12
Tamm Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 24, 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 408	No not pals, no

10-02-2006, 08:43 PM	#13
laura a moonlighting maniac! Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 30, 2005 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 376	Hi , i said i`d get back on this one. i understand where Kismet is coming from with this theory, Wer`e looking for a reason for why Glenn turned on Cybill like he did.Just to add to what kis is saying There was that little comment that Glenn made when Bruce was talking about whether David loved Maddie or was just about the sex,which was something about everyone wanting the one person that they can`t have in life and people wanting the ying to their yang. It may have mean`t nothing or it may have mean`t everything! Like i said on the other thread i think that Glenn was incredible in ore of what Bruce and Cybill had maybe wished he could have been in Bruces shoes so i think Glenn lived out his fantasies through David and Maddie which mean`t he was always in control of what happened in their relationship at least on-screen. So maybe as he saw Bruce and Cybills off-screen relationship start to blossom he tried to keep him self in the loop and ( bare in mind in a lot of articles when ever Glenn was asked or talked about Bruce and Cybills great chemistry he always put himself in the picture too and to me he looked at it as some kind of three-some( no pun intended ).So maybe by chumming up with Bruce and focusing on Davids character and changing Maddie nearly beyond recognition was his way of saying " i don`t care how close you two get this is my show and i still have total control over the characters and therefore the actors who portray them. Now don`t get me wrong Glenn was and is a great writer and even today is churning out great shows like Medium which i never miss but i do wonder if Glenn let his personal feelings cloud his judgement on a lot of the issues we have discussed on here. Anyone else like to put their pennysworth in?

10-03-2006, 01:49 PM	#15
ovrthmn Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Sep 01, 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11	I totally agree with you laura a. I have said this on some of my previous posts. There was definitely a personal agenda with Glen. Cybill was "the girl who was out of reach", yet he could have power over her by demonizing her character Maddie. I think he lived vicariously through Bruce/David and when he saw any connection or pairing of B & C on screen or off, he sabatoged it. What I can't believe is how vindictive and nasty he is still to this day. It really makes me cringe whenever I watch/hear the commentaries. He takes shots of Cybill at any chance he can get. On the most recent commentary with Bruce, he TOTALLY ignores Cybill's performance in the Honeymooners sequence, while mentioning EVERYONE. Come on Glen. And what was all of the apologizing about David loving Maddie????? I think those scenes were so sweet and sincere, showing David's growth. The two of them (Bruce & Glen) were so horrified with David admitting that he loved Maddie....I don't get it. I was also sick of hearing Glen say over and over again how he did not remember writing any of that episode. Instead of just admitting how or why he did not remain true to the characters and their situation and going forward and being able to make the storyline work, he's hiding behind excuses of memory lapses, Cybill's pregnancy, the "it was over when they had sex" line, etc...... He dropped the ball because of some stupid personal agenda, was punishing Cybill, and that is why the show suffered...period. The blame lands squarely on his shoulders. I had always thought that Cybill got the raw end of the deal whenever the show's demise was blamed on her, but now even more so. If it makes ME so sick to hear Glen babble on and on about it now, could you imagine what it must have been like for her to work in that environment back then???? I am amazed she lasted as long as she did! Sorry........I'm ranting. Anyone else?