Permon Gilbert

[kadrmas15]

Whatever happened with this case? I went to the Clermont County, Ohio sheriff's department and there was no info on the case. I dont know if that means that the case was solved or if the case has just been forgot about. I dont think Gilbert was murdered in a crime of passion. I do think this was made to look that way though by him having his top removed at the time he was shot. From the sounds of it he was beaten and then shot so clearly someone was trying to get information out of him. I have this feeling that Perman's youngest brother Vernon is tied into this somehow. I am not saying Vernon wanted his brother dead but I think Perman was killed because of stuff his brother was into. I think he was being followed around that day when his brother was testifying at the federal courthouse which I am assuming was in Cincinnati. I am sure drugs and or the mob was involved in this somehow. I think Perman Gilbert had been followed around for some time prior to his death so that whoever killed him basically knew his whole routine. It seems that Perman was more devoted to his brother than his brother was devoted to him. I find that odd that Vernon would not go to Perman's funeral.

[crystaldawn]

Yes this is one of the cases I would love to know more about. I recently sent a copy of the segment to a distant relative and they didn't know anything or if anyone had ever been arrested. I don't think Perman was having an affair but it did seem strange that he would request a specific lady at the flower shop. They may have just been friends though and he wanted to see if she was working that day. I wonder if police ever interviewed her. I tend to lean towards the organized crime theory as they did say Perman's brother was testifying against some figures and Perman did have a feeling he was being followed. It could have been meant as a message to his brother. The fact that Perman's brother didn't attend the funeral leads me to believe that he thought his brother's death could have been ordered by the people he was testifying against and he didn't show up out of fear.

[justins5256]

I searched on Newsbank to no avail. Perm's case was not updated the last time it played on Lifetime. Not that it necessarily means anything though...

[wiseguy182]

thanks for taking the time and effort to go to the sheriff's dept kadrmas15, much appreciated.

Actually, Perman was found totally naked, it wasn't just his top that was removed. When Perman asked for a specific clerk at the flower shop, he said something to the effect of "She knows what I want" It could have just meant that he frequently got flowers there and she knew what type of arrangement he wanted. However, it was a tad odd that he would go out of state to get those. It's possible he got those out of state so that he wouldn't be noticed doing it, which might mean that he was having an affair.

[UMfan77]

The cashier that worked at the store where Perman went for the flowers, was interviewed & she said that Perman would often go there & ask her if she would like to have lunch with him. But maybe he was the type of guy that liked to kid around with people. Also, all the women interviewed in the segment commented at how good looking he was.

Then again, I am leaning towards the scenerio with his brother, who was involved in the mob. Maybe the mob killed Perman in retaliation for the brother testifying against them.

Another possibility is that Perman decided to do a drug run in his private airplane & got killed because of it. There are so many angles to this case. I hope that someone comes forward & tells what exactly happened.

[kadrmas15]

Well the woman interviewed in the segment worked at the store but the woman that was interviewed was not the woman he asked for the day he went into the flower shop. It was the woman he asked to have lunch with him in a joking sort of way. The store was a flower shop and grocery store it looked like. I wish I could remember the two towns Perman had to go to that day on repairs. I think one of them was Mount Orab, Ohio which looks to be 45, 50 miles north of Maysville, Kentucky. Maysville only has around 9 thousand people but is the largest town in that area. I have wondered myself why he would go all the way to Maysville. Seems like a rather lengthy drive from his home in Clermont County. The body of Perman I believe was found near Hamersville, Ohio. Okay, the service calls that day also took him to Georgetown and Aberdeen, Ohio. Aberdeen is at the very southern tip of Ohio and is just across the bridge and river from Maysville, Kentucky. It appears that his body and van were dumped into different jurisdictions. I believe his body was actually in Brown County, Ohio while his van was in Clermont County, Ohio but I could be wrong on that. The reason I think his body was in Brown County was because it looks like the body was dumped in a town that is in Brown County. It also appears that other people were in the van with Perman. Did they get into his van when he was at the store in Maysville and did someone hide in the van until Perman got out? Was he forced off the road at some point, killed and then his van driven to a different location? Whomever did this was familiar enough with the area that it appears they dumped the body and ditched the van on rural roads that were not busy roads. Apperantly a lot of women thought Perman was good looking man and while there is no proof that he had an affair with anyone that is certainly a possibility. Or someone could have thought that their wife or girlfriend was having an affair with Perman and jumped the gun.

[wiseguy182]

Personally, I don't believe Perman volunteered to do the drug run. He was pretty adamant in the segment about not wanting to do that, stating at one point "if you guys don't quit bugging me, I'm going to call the authoritites." I believe it was one of the other scenarios: crime of passion or his brother's troubles.

[ForeverPluto]

I think it's possible he was having an affair and maybe he was set up by the woman he was messing around with and her boyfriend/husband.

[mozartpc27]

This is an interesting case, and I'm a little surprised it has not attracted more interest on the board. I just rewatched the segment twice, once to get the general story and once for the details, and I think I've come to two conclusions:

1) One of the details being withheld by authorities in this case is precisely what time Perman left the flower shop. He left his home at 8:30 AM, and told his wife he'd be home by three. I think we can safely assume Gilbert wasn't expecting to be murdered, and so, whatever he was doing, he did expect to arrive home by three. There were evidently at least two service calls he had to make in the south of Ohio, after which he proceeded to cross the state line, then stop in at a grocery store, followed by a flower shop. the segment does not say what time any of this occurred. I think this important information to know, because...

2) I'm pretty sure he was killed for his part in a love affair with another woman. Of the three theories presented, this is the only one commented on by law enforcement officials in any detail. The other two --- that he was tangentially or otherwise related to drug trafficking because he owned a plane and that he was targeted by organized crime as a way of getting to his brother, who was testifying in a trial against key figures in the underworld --- depend entirely on hearsay evidence from his wife, who in each case mentions that "Perman told her that..." The daughters, of course, buy these theories, but really have nothing of substance to add. These theories, in short, depend on how much I believe Perman through the conduit of his wife. Perhaps this is just my own prejudice, but he seems, from the way he is presented in the segment, like the exact type of person who would aggrandize himself by telling stories in which he was the target of mafia hitmen and the potential point person for drug trafficking rings. And, even if he wasn't normally a boaster of that nature, my guess is that he had become practiced, at the very least, of the skill of lying to his wife to account for all kinds of otherwise strange behaviors and "missing hours" he might have to account for. Anything he told her, therefore, I dismiss out of hand. He just seems to me like the kind of guy who would make stuff like that up. I can't explain exactly why I feel this way, and admittedly this isn't evidence, but it's my strong suspiscion.

The affair theory, however, makes a lot of sense. Why would Perman cross over to Kentucky to buy some stuff for lunch and try to buy flowers? His service calls were apparently over at about lunch time, and yet he did not expect to return until 3 o'clock. Why? This is why it is so important to know what time he was seen at the flower shop. If he was there at, say, 1 o'clock, my impression is that really would not have left him much time to get back to his home, and reduces the likelihood that he was planning on meeting someone for a romantic tryste. If, however, he was there at closer to 11, but didn't expect to return to his home until 3, I think we have pretty strong evidence that there was another kind of "service call" on his docket that day. I certainly think the police belive this is the strongest likelihood.

I think that one of the strongest pieces of evidence that he was surprised by someone is that his watch was found hung on the gearshift. That suggests to me that he was taking his clothes off inside the van. Why would anyone do that --- except if it was the only place where he believed he and his beloved could share that grand moment of ecstasy. The police detective who is interviewed also, for my mind, hints heavily that physical evidence suggesting a sexual encounter was found --- he mentions hair and other, unspecified physical evidence. Sounds to me like Perman and his honey were nekked in the old van, when someone --- perhaps her husband? --- surprised them.

The only thing that troubles me is why his lover never came forward. I wonder if there were any missing persons cases from the northeastern Kentucky-Ohio area at that time that were never solved? It would be worth looking into, if I were the investigating officer.

[wiseguy182]

nice post mozart. this is actually one of my favorite segments, lots of funny lines in this story.

I always believed it was the love triangle angle. If it was something else, I can't imagine why the murderer(s) would remove all of Perman's clothes.

One thing I just thought of: Was his vehicleever discovered? I wanny say it was discovered about 18 miles from where his body was found, but I dont remember.

[kadrmas15]

Hey Mozart, well very interesting theories as usual, you go very in depth and present new spins on things I have never even thought of so thank you for that.

I am still not sold on the theory that Perman was having an affair but the more I think about the segment as well as what you said, this becomes more and more likely in my mind.

The reason why, is because the way Perman was killed it just doesnt seem like a mob type of hit. I just think if this was a professional hit they would have done better. I dont think Perman's clothes missing was to humiliate the family so much as it was either he had his clothes off when he was killed as you said or the clothes were disposed of to destroy evidence.

The big point you brought up I never thought of is why would his watch be taken off and placed on the gear lever? That is a point that I cant believe I overlooked! It just makes no sense why it would be there unless he was involved in some activity in his van. I dont know anyone that takes off their watch when they go driving. It is just very strange that I overlooked that small but very important detail.

I do disagree on some stuff, his brother was involved in crime stuff, that was well known, it is possible that drug runners approached him about using his plane to transport drugs. I dont know what motive Perman would have to lie about something like that. He might have exaggerated what was happening somewhat, but in terms of lying, it is just my opinion and nothing more that he wasnt lying outright about it. One big glaring discrepency was that Perman was described as very close to his brother Vernon yet Vernon didnt show up to Perman's funeral.

Perman going to Maysville, now that I look it at more wasnt really that out of way in relation to where he was going on his service calls. I believe one of the towns he went to a service call in was just across the Ohio river from Maysville. Maysville was the biggest town in the area. Now I think Perman frequenting the flower shop, it could be he was just good friends with the clerk there or maybe it was something more? I dont know, I dont think it is that unusual that he asked for a specific clerk.

However Mozart you did make good progess in the argument of the jealous lover theory. The more I think about it the more that makes sense. Perman and his lover being in the van engaged in physical activity when either the lover's husband or perhaps the lover herself killed him.

In my opinion the lover was involved either directly or indirectly in the murder. In my opinion if he was having an affair the woman he was having an affair with was probably married or in a relationship as well. In my opinion at least two people were involved in the disposing of the body. Perman looked to be a good sized man so that is why I think at least two people were involved in disposing of his body. Now the van being ditched is another thing.

Even if that was the location where Perman was killed the person that killed him would have to get away from the scene. I am not sure though if where the van was found was the scene of the murder or if where Perman's body was found was the scene of the murder or if it was in a 3rd unknown location.

I cannot remember if his body was found that same day or not, I know it was found in the afternoon in the ditch but if it wasnt found the same day he disappeared than I would think he most likely wasnt dumped until that night since it would very risky, brazen actually to dump a body like that out in the open in broad daylight.

[mozartpc27]

His body was found the day after he went missing. If the van was the scene of the murder, the segment did not indicate as such. Nor did it indicate that where his body was found (some 20 miles away) was the scene of the murder either. Maybe that was one of the facts being withheld to verify tips?

I would tend to agree, kadrmas15, that 2 people might have been needed to move the body, unless Perman was forced at gunpoint to get into a second car while still alive, shot in that car, and simply pushed out on the side of the road where his body was later found.

Still, what bothers me is that no lover ever came forward. Unless, of course, it was the lover that did it --- perhaps he, like many, kept promising someone that he'd leave his wife without ever doing so, until it finally turned violent?

[wiseguy182]

Perhaps the police couldn't determine the scene of the murder.

Another possibility is that the husband or boyfriend of the lady Perman was seeing caught wind of the situation and offed Perman. In that case, there is a good chance that the lady would be dead as well.

One thing that makes the love affair angle seem unlikely is that Perman seemed pretty devoted to his family.

[kadrmas15]

Hey Wiseguy, yes now that I think more about it, it would be hard for the police to find exactly where he was murdered because he was presumably killed in the van it was just a question of where the van was at that time of the murder. In my opinion at least two people were involved in the killing.

I do agree that based on the segment Perman seemed very devoted to his family. However I do imagine that for a man to have lots of women like you it must not always be easy to resist temptation.

[wiseguy182]

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

However I do imagine that for a man to have lots of women like you it must not always be easy to resist temptation.

I got a kick out of the ladies in the segment that more or less described him as a big hunk of man meat.