Gleason in the 1960's

[Gleasonclown]

What do people think of Gleason's performance's in general once the show moved to Miami Beach? It seems to me that he became more of a cartoon version of his 50's self. Perhaps it was the re-workings of the Honeymooner episodes, but does it appear that his creative juices seem to lessen in the later 60's? His physicality was less, his use of the characters seemed to diminish (with the exception of Reggie and Ralph), and in some of the later variety shows he seems to act more like an MC for other comics and the sketch work really was played down. And when he did perform in sketches he seemed to play more to the studio audience and pepper the lines with lots more "inside" type jokes and such. It just seemed the approach to the material and the tone of the show became less than it was in the 1950's work.

Thoughts?

-Greg

[VIDEOWACK]

Originally Posted by Gleasonclown

What do people think of Gleason's performance's in general once the show moved to Miami Beach? It seems to me that he became more of a cartoon version of his 50's self. Perhaps it was the re-workings of the Honeymooner episodes, but does it appear that his creative juices seem to lessen in the later 60's? His physicality was less, his use of the characters seemed to diminish (with the exception of Reggie and Ralph), and in some of the later variety shows he seems to act more like an MC for other comics and the sketch work really was played down. And when he did perform in sketches he seemed to play more to the studio audience and pepper the lines with lots more "inside" type jokes and such. It just seemed the approach to the material and the tone of the show became less than it was in the 1950's work.

Thoughts?

-Greg

I think after a couple seasons down there he simply began to settle in to the Florida lifestyle more and more. The main reason he went there to begin with was to be able to play golf year-round. I don't think he thought less of his show as the 60's progressed, but I do feel that if you live and work in that kind of environment it's bound to have its effects somewhere down the line.

[TV Knowledge Fan]

...Jackie Gleason was getting older- and he REALLY enjoyed the atmosphere of "the sun and fun capitol of the world" after he moved to Miami Beach in mid-1964. He just didn't care for the grime and "shabbiness" of New York after the move, and very rarely visited his home town again. For the first time in his life, Gleason had room to "relax", and just "lay around and do nothing", IF he wanted to. Usually, he found refuge on the golf course, his second favorite hangout there.

And this affected his Saturday night show, too. He began "repeating" his major sketches and routines from the '50s, and actually "stole" Arthur Godfrey's "TV Calendar Show" of 1953 (which was co-written by Lyn Duddy, who provided "special musical material" for Jackie in the '60s), presenting a slight variation of it in 1966. EVERY "Honeymooners" sketch he staged between 1966 and 1970 had been done on his variety show a decade before...sometimes, with Lyn Duddy & Jerry Bresler's new musical numbers added. A few of those were "tweaked", but they were virtually the same as originally presented. It certainly wasn't the same "Golden Age" Jackie on your screen every Saturday night, but it was close.

[tv star collector]

I actually first became a Gleason fan in the sixties, watching his AMERICAN
SCENE MAGAZINE show. I never missed it and enjoyed the sketches and
even Frank Fontaine's songs(!). I had never seen his earlier shows because,
in the fifties, we only got one channel (which was an NBC affiliate). But later
on, I got to see THE HONEYMOONERS in syndication. Still later, I had a chance
to see CAVALCADE OF STARS on home video. After seeing an episode of THE
AMERICAN SCENE on home video, I have to admit that it was not as good as
I remembered it (at least in comparison to his fifties series). But as good as
Jackie was in everything he did, nothing could top Ralph Kramden in THE
HONEYMOONERS (one of the greatest TV characters of all time).

[Gleasonclown]

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

...Jackie Gleason was getting older- and he REALLY enjoyed the atmosphere of "the sun and fun capitol of the world" after he moved to Miami Beach in mid-1964. He just didn't care for the grime and "shabbiness" of New York after the move, and very rarely visited his home town again. For the first time in his life, Gleason had room to "relax", and just "lay around and do nothing", IF he wanted to. Usually, he found refuge on the golf course, his second favorite hangout there.

And this affected his Saturday night show, too. He began "repeating" his major sketches and routines from the '50s, and actually "stole" Arthur Godfrey's "TV Calendar Show" of 1953 (which was co-written by Lyn Duddy, who provided "special musical material" for Jackie in the '60s), presenting a slight variation of it in 1966. EVERY "Honeymooners" sketch he staged between 1966 and 1970 had been done on his variety show a decade before...sometimes, with Lyn Duddy & Jerry Bresler's new musical numbers added. A few of those were "tweaked", but they were virtually the same as originally presented. It certainly wasn't the same "Golden Age" Jackie on your screen every Saturday night, but it was close.

What was the Calender show about?

[W.B.]

Originally Posted by Gleasonclown

What was the Calender show about?

I.I.N.M., Gleason's version of the "calendar" show was aired Jan. 3, 1970, one of the few times his Honeymooners cast of the period appeared as themselves rather than their respective characters, and Marilyn Maye (what happened to her?) was a musical guest.

I also seem to remember that during the 1958-59 season, Gleason and Arthur Godfrey had several on-air "chats" on their respective shows which brought oodles of press.

[VIDEOWACK]

Originally Posted by W.B.

I also seem to remember that during the 1958-59 season, Gleason and Arthur Godfrey had several on-air "chats" on their respective shows which brought oodles of press.

Yes, Gleason appeared for 5 days straight on Godfrey's morning show one week in 1958. He was to appear on Godfrey's evening show the following week, but as Godfrey explained at the beginning of the show, Jackie was suffering from an eye infection that he received from eye make-up for a sketch he did on his OWN Friday night show the previous week. Incidentally, the character he was portraying was Rum Dum. After that incident, Jackie would no longer paint his eyelids with the exaggerative greasepaint. Godfrey showed clips that night from JG's morning appearances. Gleason would appear the following week on Godfrey's evening show.

[TV Knowledge Fan]

Well, that was an hour-long musical production that was originally presented on "ARTHUR GODFREY AND HIS FRIENDS" in early 1953, featuring Godfrey and his regular cast (Julius LaRosa, Marion Marlowe, The Mariners, Haleloke, The Chordettes, etc.). It told the story of a "typical" year through song {i.e. start out with New Year's Day, and work your way musically through Christmas, spotlighting each season and holiday that follows}. If Godfrey and his cast hadn't recorded a Columbia LP version of that show in '53, I never would have heard of it. The liner notes explained the entire format of the special...and, as I said, Lyn Duddy was co-writer of the special music used [I think Jerry Bresler was his partner on that one], and later adapted it for Gleason's show over a decade later.

Yes, Jackie's appearances on Arthur's daytime and nighttime shows in late 1958 did get a lot of press and publicity. But that was virtually the end of Godfrey's glory days on TV- both the daytime AND Tuesday night shows were off the air in early 1959 because he had to undergo treatment for lung cancer. After his recovery, he concentrated on his daily radio series (the one bitter season [1960-'61] he co-hosted "CANDID CAMERA" with Allen Funt was his last weekly TV show for CBS) until he signed off in April 1972.

Jackie, on the other hand, found it difficult to keep his Friday night half-hour show on the air. He did NOT get along with co-star Buddy Hackett, and he, too, left the air by January of 1959. It would be another two years before he returned...with one week of "YOU'RE IN THE PICTURE" and the "one-on-one"
interview show that replaced it very briefly in 1961. Finally, he decided to assemble another "big" comedy/variety hour for CBS...and that part we all know about!

[MrBand]

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

Jackie, on the other hand, found it difficult to keep his Friday night half-hour show on the air. He did NOT get along with co-star Buddy Hackett, and he, too, left the air by January of 1959. It would be another two years before he returned...with one week of "YOU'RE IN THE PICTURE" and the "one-on-one"
interview show that replaced it very briefly in 1961. Finally, he decided to assemble another "big" comedy/variety hour for CBS...and that part we all know about!

I've always wondered about the 1958 incarnation of the Jackie Gleason
Show as so little has been written about it and histories of the show only mention it in passing. Anyone?

[VIDEOWACK]

Originally Posted by MrBand

I've always wondered about the 1958 incarnation of the Jackie Gleason
Show as so little has been written about it and histories of the show only mention it in passing. Anyone?

It was a brief half-season Friday night show (30 minutes) with a variety flavor to it. Gleason did sketches (no Honeymooners) and as I mentioned previously, Rum Dum was a recurring character. In fact, that was the show he introduced him on. He would bring him back on the "American Scene Magazine" in 1962. Musical and comedy guest stars would also appear. I had a chance to view a couple of these at the Museum Of Radio & TV. They weren't as lively and energetic as his previous (or even later shows) but nevertheless, an interesting segment in JG's TV career.

[TV Knowledge Fan]

...by a strange coincidence, I saw a copy of the Columbia LP in a thrift shop the other day, and I got more information about it from those liner notes:

Godfrey's presentation was originally telecast on January 28, 1953, on his Wednesday night "..AND HIS FRIENDS" program [over CBS, Columbia's corporate parent at the time].

The songs were co-written by Joan Edwards and Lyn Duddy {and I said that Duddy slightly reworked them with Jerry Bresler for Gleason's show over a decade later}; each musical number was devoted to a month of the year, in succession (beginning with the "Look Ahead" number on New Year's Day)- March, for example, being devoted in song to "St. Patrick's Day".

Godfrey's entire cast, including Julius LaRosa, Marion Marlowe, Frank Parker, Lu Ann Simms, Haleloke (the show's resident Hawaiian singer), The Mariners (male vocal quartet), The Chordettes (female vocal quartet), and Godfrey's announcer, Tony Marvin, all took part in the recreation of the "special" on the album, which was one of the few times ALL of Godfrey's regulars apppeared with him on a recording.

Whether a kinescope of the actual "TV Calendar Show" exists, I don't know.



In Gleason's "revival", he was joined by HIS regular cast, including Marilyn Maye, who was being groomed for a recording career on RCA Victor records at the time (we know what happened to her...?). This version IS available; I'd like to see it sometime.

[W.B.]

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

...by a strange coincidence, I saw a copy of the Columbia LP in a thrift shop the other day, and I got more information about it from those liner notes:

Godfrey's presentation was originally telecast on January 28, 1953, on his Wednesday night "..AND HIS FRIENDS" program [over CBS, Columbia's corporate parent at the time].

The songs were co-written by Joan Edwards and Lyn Duddy {and I said that Duddy slightly reworked them with Jerry Bresler for Gleason's show over a decade later}; each musical number was devoted to a month of the year, in succession (beginning with the "Look Ahead" number on New Year's Day)- March, for example, being devoted in song to "St. Patrick's Day".

Godfrey's entire cast, including Julius LaRosa, Marion Marlowe, Frank Parker, Lu Ann Simms, Haleloke (the show's resident Hawaiian singer), The Mariners (male vocal quartet), The Chordettes (female vocal quartet), and Godfrey's announcer, Tony Marvin, all took part in the recreation of the "special" on the album, which was one of the few times ALL of Godfrey's regulars apppeared with him on a recording.

Whether a kinescope of the actual "TV Calendar Show" exists, I don't know.

In Gleason's "revival", he was joined by HIS regular cast, including Marilyn Maye, who was being groomed for a recording career on RCA Victor records at the time (we know what happened to her...?). This version IS available; I'd like to see it sometime.

As I said, this "revival" aired on January 3, 1970 which, to the best of my knowledge, was Ms. Maye's only TJGS appearance. By that year, her label, RCA Victor was mostly known as "RCA" and had the orange label with the "modern" RCA design at a 90 degree counterclockwise angle at left, and "Victor" set in Helvetica at right.

As for Godfrey, he tried to make lightning strike twice later in 1953 with Christmas With Arthur Godfrey (and all the little Godfreys). It was one of the first 12" pop albums issued by Columbia - and doubtless also staged on his show.