How is it that some shows are lost and some aren't?

[gilligan fanatic]

I am not getting that at all. Is it just luck that somethings were recorded by one guy and it has been circulating for all these years. Not everything was syndicated either. I can understand how some rarer shows have resurfaced on TV, but what about movies and specials that aired on TV? How is it they are still around? Some things come from 16MM prints, but not everything. Why have some things been lost for good (for now)

[RedWhine56]

First, money. Tapes were expensive & storing them was expensive. Second, many studios seemed to think once people watched a show, they would not want to see it again. As a result, tapes were reused. DesiLu was one of the first studios to save their tapes, which is why we still have "I Love Lucy", "The Danny Thomas Show", etc.

Anything on 16mm can be converted to digital, with the right equipment or if you are willing to plunk down the $$ to pay a service to do it.

One of my earliest items is a 1952 film short that was transferred from a kinescope, another method of transferring to VHS/DVD.

As far as tv movies, I think many people don't save their home recordings. We got our first VCR in 1983 and a majority of people still did not have home recording equipment at that time. And we did not purposely save any shows. We'd watch them & then reuse tapes. We still have many old tapes, but I'm sure most of them are sports, mostly tennis.

[debwalsh]

Then there's the issue of strikes and such that live stuff wasn't recorded. Or purges - recordings kept for years that were tossed out to make room for something deemed more important.

When I started recording in 1978, a blank 4-hour VHS tape (6-hour machines weren't on the market yet) could cost as much as $30 each, if you could find them. They were luxury items. Imagine the expense of 1" and 2" reels. They were massive and not easy to store - climate control was a must, so space was always at a premium.

[Lamont]

the networks carelessly stored lots of films for years
many were damaged and lost forever, many were EVEN TOSSED in the trash as useless

so some stuff is tougher to track down!

[debwalsh]

And alas, some stuff just doesn't exist at all in any form, especially if it was done live, and no kinescope was made.

Again, this is one of the reasons I like seeing people post what they've gotten, since every time someone tracks down another forgotten gem, it's one more piece of our television history preserved. One of the great things about DVDs is that now it's really easy to share a program and not risk the original - one of the reasons I'm really stingy about making copies of stuff from tape is that every time I play that tape, I wear it down a little more. But once there's a snapshot on DVD, I can make as many copies of the DVD as I please, and the original is not adversely affected. And multiple copies means it's less likely the show will be ultimately lost.

Then there's stuff that should be forgotten.

[T-Greg]

Jackie Gleason kept copies of all of his shows from CBS in his vault. While CBS recorded over its tapes, Gleason revealed in 1985 (2 years before his death) that he had these "Lost Episodes" stored away and was waiting for the "right time" to go public. I just wish MPI would do a better job with future releases.

[Famous Mortimer]

The BBC in Britain was a huge culprit for this- "Dr. Who", the long-running and brilliant sci-fi show, has loads of missing episodes because the BBC just re-used the tapes. Fools. They keep appearing from places you'd not expect- the Far East, where the BBC sent copies of some shows, for one. The stations never bothered re-using the tapes, or kept copies for themselves before sending the originals back to the BBC. It would be great if we could organise and mail local newspapers to see if people have old recordings, and TV stations to ask them to dig the lost gems out of their archives, if they exist at all.

[stoogedog]

hi, it might be a bright idea to run a classified ad in local papers about wanting home recorded videotapes. there are also national companies that will run an ad in local papers all over the country as well. there are also local classified specialty papers. in our area we have one that lets individuals run free ads and then it is sold once a week in the convenient stores. i've thought about running an ad in it. also, a local radio show has a swap shop program on saturday mornings where people call in their yard sales, items for sale, wants, etc. i thought about calling it as well and asking if anyone has old videotapes they might want to get rid of. thirft stores are also a good place to look. i have found several videotapes of shows that are hard to find in them. thanks

[savageamusement]

Well don't forget some places get rid of things.

Disney, for example- has destroyed cells before.


My grandma once told me a story-


A woman walks into an antique store- and she sees a perfect litlte elephant-
and she asks how much it is-
the lady asnwers 2500.00 it is very rare
there are only two known in exhistance.

The lady pays the 2500.00
and pormptly takes the elephant and smashes is on the floor

The sales lady is baffled and perplexed and asks WHY would you do that.

The lady smugly smiles and says now there is only one in exhistances. Mine.
I wonder how much its worth now?

And leaves


I think sometimes, things are lost, or destoryed- for that reason.
Call me a cynic.

[stoogedog]

hi, one thing about some old shows being lost is that every episode of a show maybe available except for 1 or a few eps. for example, there is a show that i am looking for. i'm wanting an episode from the last week of november 1969. well a few weekly eps before the episode i want can be found and some after, but this particular show i want seems to be lost. that's what i find strange. i just wonder why the television and movie companies didn't follow along with alot of record companies. you know alot of record companies did preserve and keep recordings that were done. thanks

[Famous Mortimer]

Different thing altogether. TV companies produce a lot more product than record companies do, and the stuff they produce was bulkier.

[debwalsh]

The BBC didn't just re-use tapes from Doctor Who, they threw them in the trash. Which is why there has been a story going around for at least 25 years that there's a fan who recovered all the tape cans, and actually has the missing episodes. But a lot stuff was simply wiped.

Kind of makes you want to rent a space ship and cruise to a nearby nebula and try to record that signal that's supposedly still moving out in space ... :<

[PancakeLady]

have them from the trassh can?> im am a big dr who fan and would like to be able to find out who has those lost ones if its true

[debwalsh]

That story has been circulating for over 25 years. I've met people who claim to know who that person holding the recordings is, and I've heard that the BBC has tried to negotiate to borrow the tapes back so they can duplicate them, but nothing has ever come of it. So I don't know if the story is actually true, or wishful thinking. In any case, no one I know has ever gotten copies of those missing episodes from that source.

At least the BBC is going to try bridging the missing episodes for Invasion with animation - I like that idea better than the telesnaps approach of the reconstructions.

[gilligan fanatic]

Originally Posted by RedWhine56

As far as tv movies, I think many people don't save their home recordings. We got our first VCR in 1983 and a majority of people still did not have home recording equipment at that time. And we did not purposely save any shows. We'd watch them & then reuse tapes. We still have many old tapes, but I'm sure most of them are sports, mostly tennis.

It's amazing how times change. We have our Christmas tree (it's fake) wrapped in newspaper and we have ads from the 80's on them. I think it's funny seeing VHS pack of 2 for $60.00

Originally Posted by debwalsh

Then there's the issue of strikes and such that live stuff wasn't recorded. Or purges - recordings kept for years that were tossed out to make room for something deemed more important.

it's to bad there wasn't room for everything.

Originally Posted by Lamont

the networks carelessly stored lots of films for years
many were damaged and lost forever, many were EVEN TOSSED in the trash as useless

so some stuff is tougher to track down!

It's to bad they don't have all the restoration software there is now. A lot more might not have been thrown away.

Originally Posted by debwalsh

Then there's stuff that should be forgotten.

Like Dusty's Trail-lol

Originally Posted by T-Greg

Jackie Gleason kept copies of all of his shows from CBS in his vault. While CBS recorded over its tapes, Gleason revealed in 1985 (2 years before his death) that he had these "Lost Episodes" stored away and was waiting for the "right time" to go public. I just wish MPI would do a better job with future releases.

So I guess his original Jackie Gleason show was never syndicated. Is that correct because I always get confused with the Lost episodes.

Originally Posted by stoodedog

hi, it might be a bright idea to run a classified ad in local papers about wanting home recorded videotapes. there are also national companies that will run an ad in local papers all over the country as well. there are also local classified specialty papers. in our area we have one that lets individuals run free ads and then it is sold once a week in the convenient stores. i've thought about running an ad in it. also, a local radio show has a swap shop program on saturday mornings where people call in their yard sales, items for sale, wants, etc. i thought about calling it as well and asking if anyone has old videotapes they might want to get rid of. thirft stores are also a good place to look. i have found several videotapes of shows that are hard to find in them. thanks

Thanks for the advice. Maybe I can find something not here that I am looking for with your ideas.

Originally Posted by savageamusement

Well don't forget some places get rid of things.

Disney, for example- has destroyed cells before.


My grandma once told me a story-


A woman walks into an antique store- and she sees a perfect litlte elephant-
and she asks how much it is-
the lady asnwers 2500.00 it is very rare
there are only two known in exhistance.

The lady pays the 2500.00
and pormptly takes the elephant and smashes is on the floor

The sales lady is baffled and perplexed and asks WHY would you do that.

The lady smugly smiles and says now there is only one in exhistances. Mine.
I wonder how much its worth now?

And leaves


I think sometimes, things are lost, or destoryed- for that reason.
Call me a cynic.

I am sure people have done that, I wish they hadn't though

Originally Posted by stoodedog

hi, one thing about some old shows being lost is that every episode of a show maybe available except for 1 or a few eps. for example, there is a show that i am looking for. i'm wanting an episode from the last week of november 1969. well a few weekly eps before the episode i want can be found and some after, but this particular show i want seems to be lost. that's what i find strange. i just wonder why the television and movie companies didn't follow along with alot of record companies. you know alot of record companies did preserve and keep recordings that were done. thanks

That's kind of like the Paul Lynde show. Everyone seems to be missing just two episodes.

_______________
Thanks everyone for all the explanations