*** question on the BANNED/BAD TRADERS comments thread from a few days ago ******

[Lamont]

The BANNED/SUSPENDED TRADERS LIST thread from this week

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...d.php?t=174771

(please reread it if u need refreshing)

i have a question on it

Is it APPROPRIATE to post if a BANNED or BAD TRADER is selling/trading under a new name on a commonly used site?

FOR INSTANCE when we encounter a banned trader such as Wolf11, Sue Maples, Sheri220 etc on a selling site is it ACCEPTABLE to post that info on here so that others do not get Stung again?

I know we DO NOT want to run trader checks and such on ebay, ioffer, etc sites for OBVIOUS reason----

BUT FOR INSTANCE if I see that Twoonia or Sheri220 is selling on a new site under a new name, it is possible that people will deal with them under the new name and get taken for a ride!

And TRUST ME, I have run across MANY bad traders such as Prophet Living Good, Sue Maples, Wolf11, Sheri220, Collinwood, Twoonia, etc on other sites--- often with a new screen name, often with SOMEONE ELSES Contact info as a front for them and sometimes just as themselves on a new site.

so is it acceptable to post that info on here so that we can all be aware of the facts? Not to start the bad threads all over again, but to update the information on the person to keep the bad trader info current.

I am asking this to the moderators and also looking for feedback from the board!

JUST THE FACTS MAAM!!!!

[Lamont]

I fully realize that we as a board do NOT want to start posting who is selling and who is not elsewhere, b/c board rules PROHIBIT it and it cannot go on, ON the board

I am talking about ONLY in the situation of a BANNED or BAD TRADER LIST member and ONLY if the information is STRICTLY a factual update meant to keep the bad traders info Current.

Nothing more and in no way endorsing, linking to, or refering to ANY selling site in particular or any rules violations at all.

and -- NO, despite what SHE may think, this does NOT apply to only 1 former, now BANNED member!

[loren]

my opinion

if someone has a new name, alias, stooge, or any other way to fool people

its our duty to post that new name, and then a moderator will need to add that to the list of scumbags

see example from previous--the scammer from brazil----

each time a new name, email, etc was used, it was added to the very long list

if this isnt done, then the bad trader/scammer.thief/scumbag will be allowed to run free and rip off members, since that new name hasnt been run into the mud in this public forumn

[lilhave]

I think it's important if Sheri or any other scammer attempts to continue their devious ways to fool unsuspecting traders, for the one who spots this to step forward to notify us. With Sheri it will be easy to spot as thousands of emails will pour in and phone lines will be flooded.

Harvey

[RedWhine56]

Originally Posted by Lamont

I know we DO NOT want to run trader checks and such on ebay, ioffer, etc sites for OBVIOUS reason----

Although I know this site prohibits selling, I think it would be great to include someone's feedback on Ebay/Ioffer when rating them as a trader. I realize it may have nothing to do with their TRADING practices, but it seems wrong to me for someone to be considered an excellent trader & yet have horrible feedback on Ioffer/Ebay for selling those items. I also realize those who sell alot of items will always run into a customer you cannot please. But let the feedback speak for itself. JMO & YMMV.

[savageamusement]

I can actually hear the can of worms people opened on this.


OKay- I will be asking Todd, for a confirmation-
But to my understanding-

Selling is not allowed ON sitcoms, although many people sell on other sites- and or in their own privacy of email - if trading arrangements can't be made.
We as moderators understand this.

We also are aware of who the "repuatable" traders and sellers are-
meaning, the sellers that do sell often enough but at a reasonable price, with good quality, and trustworthy delivery.

To me, if a person has been deemed a bad trader they problaby aren't overly trustworthy as a seller.
Or could concieveably have problems.

I would have to say in general yes

One a user has been deemed a bad trader for various behaviour, should they decide or continue to sell
It is the groups right to know the trader, has turned, or continued selling.
I myself unless told otherwise by administration would add that information.

That does not mean someone CAN'T purchase from them, if need be.

But to give an example, I would feel more safe giving my money to a established seller, and active member/trader
Then someone who wasn't able to remain a member.

I do know that in the case of Pam Maples
I did include all her Ioffer/Paypal Info
And when Andrew Turpa was taking money orders, I included the state/city it was common in for future use.

The fact is, I can not tell people who to trade or who to purchase/arrange deals with

The list we have is so that whatever choice YOU as the group decide to do, you can do it informed.

So for now, my answer is yes, if the perosn seems to have had trouble thus far trading, there is a good probability someone might have a problem with them buying - and therefore their seller name should, (and when I had the ability) was
included on the bad trader list.

But I will definately double check myself with the Main Main.


S~

[loren]

Originally Posted by RedWhine56

Although I know this site prohibits selling, I think it would be great to include someone's feedback on Ebay/Ioffer when rating them as a trader. I realize it may have nothing to do with their TRADING practices, but it seems wrong to me for someone to be considered an excellent trader & yet have horrible feedback on Ioffer/Ebay for selling those items. I also realize those who sell alot of items will always run into a customer you cannot please. But let the feedback speak for itself. JMO & YMMV.

ABSOLUTELY NOT NO WAY NEVER

why, very simple, feedback on ebay can be gotten by buying things for a penny and then getting all kinds of unwarranted good feedback

ebooks, coupons, recipes, etc etc

then of course one can go on ioffer and transfer that bogus ebay feedback onto an ioffer account

or with a little more effort, one can sign uop numerosu accounts, list things when its 1 cent insertion fees,a nd have hundreds of feedback in a matter of a couple weeks

also, when ioffer first started you could import anyones feedback into your ioffer account, just cruise on down the list until you found a nice one and sign it up--now they acy=tualy need the password from ebay to transfer

so some folks grabbed off numerous accounts and had dozens of seller accounts, since there is no fees for that,once again, ill gotten feedback

neither of these have a thing to do with trades and how good a person is

please remove that idea from contention

[Lamont]

Originally Posted by lilhave

I think it's important if Sheri or any other scammer attempts to continue their devious ways to fool unsuspecting traders, for the one who spots this to step forward to notify us. With Sheri it will be easy to spot as thousands of emails will pour in and phone lines will be flooded.

Harvey

Not necessarilly true there, lilhave

as sheri220 has allready tried to use 2 other board members to do her bidding for her, if u recall she tried to get 2 stooges to sell on here FOR HER and trade stuff for her and it didnt work out

this is NOT the 1st time a banned member has gotten a buddy to keep them going on the site
BUT i hope its the last

[Lamont]

Originally Posted by RedWhine56

Although I know this site prohibits selling, I think it would be great to include someone's feedback on Ebay/Ioffer when rating them as a trader. I realize it may have nothing to do with their TRADING practices, but it seems wrong to me for someone to be considered an excellent trader & yet have horrible feedback on Ioffer/Ebay for selling those items. I also realize those who sell alot of items will always run into a customer you cannot please. But let the feedback speak for itself. JMO & YMMV.

Feedback is a double edged sword

MANY PEOPLE on ebay, ioffer, yahoo etc etc, are AFRAID to leave bad feedback b/c of someone leaving a Follow Up bad feedback for them--- like if i buy a book, and it comes damaged and i leave a bad comment that it was not packed well, then he leaves me a bad comment too and whats the point!? so about 75% of all bad deals, go unreported on auction sites

some feedbacks are easier to read than others, some list WHAT ITEM it was the feedback was left for so u can see if its a DVD set, or some old star wars toys,

feedback can be useful, BUT also deceiving

I KNOW of 1 bad trader who seems to ALWAYS be selling AGAIN AND AGAIN and AGAIN on sites, with good feedback--- BECAUSE he gets 10 or 15 of his buddies to leave him good comments like "GREAT DVD SET" and stuff and its all bogus
then after 2 months he has lots of complaints and moves on to the next fake account

the point was NOT to blast anyone in particular

BUT i bought an item on ebay last year, from a BANNED member of this board--- DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS THEM til it was too late-- and lost $30
so i was thinking.... if we post info like that FOR BAD TRADERS ONLY--- NEVER EVER EVER for anyone except BAD/BANNED members as a warning ONLY
it might be useful!

[RedWhine56]

The only time Ebay/Ioffer feedback would make much of an impact is when it is very different from one’s reputation on SO. IE, if a trader is considered excellent on SO & has excellent feedback or is considered a bad trader & has horrible feedback, the feedback simply substantiates the trader's reputation on SO. But if the two vary considerably, then yes, I think it shows that the trader/seller does treat fellow traders differently than those who pay them money. Perhaps they treat the traders better to protect their source of new items or perhaps they treat those who contribute to their income better & don’t mind scamming traders. Either way, yes, it’s telling.

[T-Greg]

Like Lamont said, there are Ebay sellers that simply will not leave you feedback until you leave it for them, thus people will not leave them bad feedback because they will retaliate. In addition, I know of a seller on Yahoo auctions, that not only shill bid on his items using other ID's, but would buy his own stuff, just to leave himself good feedback, so he looked good to other bidders. Guess what? Yahoo could care less.

[savageamusement]

Well as far as the board goes-

UNless I am told otherwise-
I can see putting the users who have a BAD reputation, and or are "bad traders"

Selling info up- because they have been proven bad traders/people to deal with for various reasons.

Not necessarily banned users, just bad traders.

However I can not see putting feedbakc up for good traders as sellers
Because then we as Sitcoms would be promoting selling, and giving promotion to them.

The idea of putting a bad traders info down - for their selling info- would be to give illumination to their history should anyone wish to deal with them on ANY level.

That to me makes sense.

But If I start putting bad and good feedback up for sellers/traders
then it gives hte idea that they can get free press here as a seller- when this board is all about trading.

Make any sense?

I don't have a problem protecting people- But I dont wish to publicize for them.

But i'll definately ask Todd to see what he thinks

[Dragonbear]

The problem with listing seller information is that it opens up the area is that
the feedback is able to be manipulated as has been stated.

And the entire story really isn't available. Just the he said she said.
Sometimes it's overwhelming to say the least the he said she said but
still.

The free press as sellers is an excellent point as well. We know it happens,
we know that people sell, People who are for it say "woo hoo". People
against it come to the realization that people will sell no matter what.
On ebay, yahoo, Monkeysell.com or whatever comes down the road
in the future. Private sales included. You won't stop it, but what
can be done is to not condone it if you don't like it.

For the most part I have yet to see someone get banned or put on
the bad trading list for something that happened completely off the
board. I could be wrong on that one but everyone that was listed
as a bad trader, the names do not matter right now cause we all
know them, had memberships on here, did trades on SO and were
censured for those.

Let Ebay and Ioffer police themselves. It ends up in the long run being
very tainted information if even information at all that ends up being
useful. And for the most part people who are banned hang themselves
by the ropes that they got from bad trades on SO anyway.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by loren

my opinion

if someone has a new name, alias, stooge, or any other way to fool people

its our duty to post that new name, and then a moderator will need to add that to the list of scumbags

Damn I think I am going crazy here but I am going to have to agree with the Playground Bully once again. I see nothing wrong about warning our members about unscrupulous people whether they trade here on the board or not. That is the whole point of a trading comunity is to have each others backs.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by RedWhine56

The only time Ebay/Ioffer feedback would make much of an impact is when it is very different from one’s reputation on SO. IE, if a trader is considered excellent on SO & has excellent feedback or is considered a bad trader & has horrible feedback, the feedback simply substantiates the trader's reputation on SO. ....... Either way, yes, it’s telling.

One thing you seem to forget is that the rules on this site prohibit selling, although there are some people who may sell and have IOffer/Ebay accounts they do it OFF board.

Putting someones feedback on there name identifies them as a seller and could also be crossing the line as far as SO goes because it would almost advertise who the sellers are. Could open a huge can of worms and may get the wrongs eyes prying at this site.

If you really want to find out about a trader or seller, there are tons of ways to get the information, Google their name and/or email, read the feedback or when all else fails ask Lamont if he does not know he will find out (any excuse to write a novella )