Original Air or Syndication, your choice... - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

mhadley · 06-06-2006, 02:53 AM

I asked this a few years ago but I wanted to see if opinions have changed.

If you have a choice of copies for a program what would you rather have, a 3rd or 4th generation copy that is uncut from the original airing or a 1st generation cut for syndication copy covered in on-screen ads? Personally I would rather have the lower quality uncut copy and I am just wondering how other people feel about this.

You can't even trust DVD versions of shows anymore with shows like Alf, 21 Jumpstreet, Hunter, Roseanne, Married With Children, Kung Fu, Tour Of Duty, WiseGuy etc... coming to disc in either cut (syndicated) form or missing the music (sometimes BOTH).

I also love to have old airings of shows for the commercials/promos. In a way it is kind of a way to recapture my youth.

How does everyone here feel about this.

http://www.rarevideosfortrade.com

Famous Mortimer · 06-06-2006, 06:25 AM

How badly cut are we talking? I don't see the difference between first-runs and syndicated shows- how many more adverts are there?

Good try advertising your site though.

mhadley · 06-06-2006, 08:12 AM

All syndicated shows are cut from the original airings. How much depends on the era.

All In The Family episodes from the original airings and Columbia House VHS tapes run between 26-27 minutes, on TVland they run 21 minutes. Hill Street Blues runs 48 minutes uncut, on Bravo and TVland they run 41 minutes. Star Trek runs 50 minutes uncut, 42 minutes in syndication etc....

The older the show, the more gets cut (since older shows ran longer and had fewer commercials to start with). Even newer shows that run 44 minutes uncut (Law & Order for example) run 41 minutes on TNT.

A few cable channels pride themsevles on showing things uncut (like Scream in Canada and Space: The Imagination Station in Canada) but no US network does.

Then there is the issue of rock music present in the original airings that when the shows hits syndication or DVD, the company no longer has the rights too, so that gets replaced (usually hurting the intent of the scene greatly) and since they usually just remove the music, the band is still credited for songs not in the shows (21 Jumpstreet did that, they removed the music but left in the title card with the bands name and the "songs by" credit). Sometimes it's REALLY bad, such as when a character is SINGING to a song that is removed, then the use CGI to alter the persons face (Hunter episode "Snow Queen") or have someone clearly not the original actor, try and overdub with new words (WKRP).

So, there is a BIG difference in syndicated airings and original airings of TV shows.

y2k3Joker · 06-06-2006, 09:03 AM

I will take the clean picture of the syndicated version EVERY time over any 4th or 5th generation copy that's been dubbed so many times you can't even make out who is in the scene because the picture is so washed out.

Some edits are done well enough that you don't even notice the missing footage unless you are a big fan of a show and know every single scene of every episode. The average fan wouldn't even pick it up.

There are however exceptions, the Hogan's Heroes set I made a couple of years back had horrible edits. They would cut to commercial with a fade out but you could clearly see a character was just about to say something. These are the only syndicated versions I have a problem with but for the most I prefer the clear picture over the older worn out originals.

TVFactFan · 06-06-2006, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2k3Joker

I will take the clean picture of the syndicated version EVERY time over any 4th or 5th generation copy that's been dubbed so many times you can't even make out who is in the scene because the picture is so washed out.

Some edits are done well enough that you don't even notice the missing footage unless you are a big fan of a show and know every single scene of every episode. The average fan wouldn't even pick it up.

There are however exceptions, the Hogan's Heroes set I made a couple of years back had horrible edits. They would cut to commercial with a fade out but you could clearly see a character was just about to say something. These are the only syndicated versions I have a problem with but for the most I prefer the clear picture over the older worn out originals.

So what about an Original Broadcast of the Mork and Mindy Pilot from 1978 on ABC with commercials that is a 6/10 in Quality over a Excellent DVD Copy of the same episode?

y2k3Joker · 06-06-2006, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVResearcher

So what about an Original Broadcast of the Mork and Mindy Pilot from 1978 on ABC with commercials that is a 6/10 in Quality over a Excellent DVD Copy of the same episode?

I want no part of 6/10 quality for a tv show.

If it was a football or baseball game that I realy wanted, I'd take it. A TV show, absolutely NOT.

TVFactFan · 06-06-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2k3Joker

I want no part of 6/10 quality for a tv show.

If it was a football or baseball game that I realy wanted, I'd take it. A TV show, absolutely NOT.

So it's no show out there you haven;t found yet and would take any quality? I personally would take a 2/10 Quality of a CHECKING IN episode-lol

Lamont · 06-06-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVResearcher

So what about an Original Broadcast of the Mork and Mindy Pilot from 1978 on ABC with commercials that is a 6/10 in Quality over a Excellent DVD Copy of the same episode?

WHY IN THE WORLD would someone watch a lousy quality Uncut version of a show when u can watch an excellent quality syndicated cut?

that is just wacko there tv researcher!

TVFactFan · 06-06-2006, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamont

WHY IN THE WORLD would someone watch a lousy quality Uncut version of a show when u can watch an excellent quality syndicated cut?

that is just wacko there tv researcher!

Because the Original ABC version is a part of TV History. For example, when I first watched the 1978 Pilot of Mork and Mindy on ABC, during the commercials I saw a 20 something Charles Gibson during a News Update for ABC. That's what I mean.

gilligan fanatic · 06-06-2006, 10:32 AM

it really depends on the show. For the most part I would rather have a cleaner picture but since I wasn't around during when all my favorite shows were on it is fun to experinece it like I was originally there when it aired. I like original airings for the novelty of it.

lazygrae · 06-06-2006, 02:25 PM

I prefer uncut shows and am willing to trade off a certain amount of quality in return. Not 4th or 5th gen, but I'd take a 2nd gen uncut copy to an off-broadcast to disc, but cut, recording. Or sometimes I'll just collect 2 sets.

It does also depend on how they are cut as well. I don't mind when a 50' show is cut to 47'-48'.

Joker, I haven't seen the Hogan's Heroes you mentioned, but a couple of others that are edited very poorly that immediately come to mind include the current Hawaii Five-0 package and the Baretta set we did.

lilhave · 06-06-2006, 07:43 PM

This is what I have found to be in the trading circles. Most of the time, of course not all the time but most of the time.

Folks would like to have as complete a run of a series as possible. Quality should be as sharp as possible. Menus are a must and if possible the episodes uncut, and in order and in some cases we achieve that. Of course sometimes sacrifices must be made. As far as individual episodes, they are only traded for when you need them to complete a set. But no one, well, maybe one person looks to trade for one episode of a series because of a particular guest star, or a special promo. When I see the post who has the original airing of June 6, 1977 of Crapola theater that aired on NBC, not TVLand, I know no one will respond. Why would any one want to make a trade of one half hour show and waste time and postage for one episode but this chap will continue to ask for one show, get no response and come back and ask for one more show and still get no response. Even a dog if kicked in the ass enough times learns.

Harvey

y2k3Joker · 06-06-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilhave

But no one, well, maybe one person looks to trade for one episode of a series because of a particular guest star, or a special promo. When I see the post who has the original airing of June 6, 1977 of Crapola theater that aired on NBC, not TVLand, I know no one will respond. Why would any one want to make a trade of one half hour show and waste time and postage for one episode but this chap will continue to ask for one show, get no response and come back and ask for one more show and still get no response. Even a dog if kicked in the ass enough times learns.

Harvey

Lamont · 06-06-2006, 08:32 PM

did someone say Crapola Theatre??!!

tdubel · 06-06-2006, 09:01 PM

Some stuff is a big issue as far as Music Rights.

For Instance, first season of Wiseguy without original music is PAINFUL to someone who saw it in first run and like Lazy, I would take a 2nd gen tape over the uncut pristine dvd. Sorry, but Nights in White Satin music is irreplaceable and any who have seen this will understand.

Now, as far as the sitcoms, most of the time, like Joker said, its a who cares issue to me? You would have to know every line to get all the edits.

Tom

06-06-2006, 02:53 AM	#1
mhadley Member Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 22, 2003 Posts: 572	Original Air or Syndication, your choice... I asked this a few years ago but I wanted to see if opinions have changed. If you have a choice of copies for a program what would you rather have, a 3rd or 4th generation copy that is uncut from the original airing or a 1st generation cut for syndication copy covered in on-screen ads? Personally I would rather have the lower quality uncut copy and I am just wondering how other people feel about this. You can't even trust DVD versions of shows anymore with shows like Alf, 21 Jumpstreet, Hunter, Roseanne, Married With Children, Kung Fu, Tour Of Duty, WiseGuy etc... coming to disc in either cut (syndicated) form or missing the music (sometimes BOTH). I also love to have old airings of shows for the commercials/promos. In a way it is kind of a way to recapture my youth. How does everyone here feel about this. http://www.rarevideosfortrade.com

06-06-2006, 10:32 AM	#10
gilligan fanatic Born to Be Bad Forum Fanatic Join Date: May 06, 2001 Location: down by the Lagoon Posts: 9,954	it really depends on the show. For the most part I would rather have a cleaner picture but since I wasn't around during when all my favorite shows were on it is fun to experinece it like I was originally there when it aired. I like original airings for the novelty of it.
	__________________ Matt Filmaf ~ Twitter ~ Last.FM

06-06-2006, 02:25 PM	#11
lazygrae Archivist Frequent Poster Join Date: Sep 30, 2003 Location: Canada, watching the grooviest gang of fuzz who ever wore a badge. Posts: 460	I prefer uncut shows and am willing to trade off a certain amount of quality in return. Not 4th or 5th gen, but I'd take a 2nd gen uncut copy to an off-broadcast to disc, but cut, recording. Or sometimes I'll just collect 2 sets. It does also depend on how they are cut as well. I don't mind when a 50' show is cut to 47'-48'. Joker, I haven't seen the Hogan's Heroes you mentioned, but a couple of others that are edited very poorly that immediately come to mind include the current Hawaii Five-0 package and the Baretta set we did.
	__________________ Have/Want list: www.chezgrae.com/videos.html Unofficial Mod Squad Home Page: www.chezgrae.com/modsquad/

06-06-2006, 08:32 PM	#14
Lamont Lamont says Smile! Forum Veteran Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Deep in the Heart of Nowhere Posts: 5,217	HALLELUJAH! did someone say Crapola Theatre??!!

06-06-2006, 09:01 PM	#15
tdubel Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 08, 2002 Posts: 677	Agree/Disagree Some stuff is a big issue as far as Music Rights. For Instance, first season of Wiseguy without original music is PAINFUL to someone who saw it in first run and like Lazy, I would take a 2nd gen tape over the uncut pristine dvd. Sorry, but Nights in White Satin music is irreplaceable and any who have seen this will understand. Now, as far as the sitcoms, most of the time, like Joker said, its a who cares issue to me? You would have to know every line to get all the edits. Tom

06-06-2006, 06:25 AM	#2
Famous Mortimer Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 05, 2006 Location: UK Posts: 100	How badly cut are we talking? I don't see the difference between first-runs and syndicated shows- how many more adverts are there? Good try advertising your site though.

06-06-2006, 08:12 AM	#3
mhadley Member Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 22, 2003 Posts: 572	All syndicated shows are cut from the original airings. How much depends on the era. All In The Family episodes from the original airings and Columbia House VHS tapes run between 26-27 minutes, on TVland they run 21 minutes. Hill Street Blues runs 48 minutes uncut, on Bravo and TVland they run 41 minutes. Star Trek runs 50 minutes uncut, 42 minutes in syndication etc.... The older the show, the more gets cut (since older shows ran longer and had fewer commercials to start with). Even newer shows that run 44 minutes uncut (Law & Order for example) run 41 minutes on TNT. A few cable channels pride themsevles on showing things uncut (like Scream in Canada and Space: The Imagination Station in Canada) but no US network does. Then there is the issue of rock music present in the original airings that when the shows hits syndication or DVD, the company no longer has the rights too, so that gets replaced (usually hurting the intent of the scene greatly) and since they usually just remove the music, the band is still credited for songs not in the shows (21 Jumpstreet did that, they removed the music but left in the title card with the bands name and the "songs by" credit). Sometimes it's REALLY bad, such as when a character is SINGING to a song that is removed, then the use CGI to alter the persons face (Hunter episode "Snow Queen") or have someone clearly not the original actor, try and overdub with new words (WKRP). So, there is a BIG difference in syndicated airings and original airings of TV shows.

06-06-2006, 09:03 AM	#4
y2k3Joker Why So Serious? Senior Member Join Date: Aug 28, 2003 Location: Arkham Asylum Posts: 1,256	I will take the clean picture of the syndicated version EVERY time over any 4th or 5th generation copy that's been dubbed so many times you can't even make out who is in the scene because the picture is so washed out. Some edits are done well enough that you don't even notice the missing footage unless you are a big fan of a show and know every single scene of every episode. The average fan wouldn't even pick it up. There are however exceptions, the Hogan's Heroes set I made a couple of years back had horrible edits. They would cut to commercial with a fade out but you could clearly see a character was just about to say something. These are the only syndicated versions I have a problem with but for the most I prefer the clear picture over the older worn out originals.

06-06-2006, 07:43 PM	#12
lilhave Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 03, 2004 Location: N.Y.C. Posts: 2,294	This is what I have found to be in the trading circles. Most of the time, of course not all the time but most of the time. Folks would like to have as complete a run of a series as possible. Quality should be as sharp as possible. Menus are a must and if possible the episodes uncut, and in order and in some cases we achieve that. Of course sometimes sacrifices must be made. As far as individual episodes, they are only traded for when you need them to complete a set. But no one, well, maybe one person looks to trade for one episode of a series because of a particular guest star, or a special promo. When I see the post who has the original airing of June 6, 1977 of Crapola theater that aired on NBC, not TVLand, I know no one will respond. Why would any one want to make a trade of one half hour show and waste time and postage for one episode but this chap will continue to ask for one show, get no response and come back and ask for one more show and still get no response. Even a dog if kicked in the ass enough times learns. Harvey