anyone on the bad trader list needs to be banned - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

loren · 04-21-2006, 02:53 PM

in my 100% honest and blunt usual manner

i submit that every person who gets on the bad trader list, due to numerous users testimony, needs to be removed from the site on a permant basis

im not talking about stinky 243 that makes a 4 disc trade and is late

and not about stinky444 who amkes a swap and two discs dont work and he cant get redos from his source

im not talking about a slow person, etc

only a history of bad deals, lies, devious disregard for others, backed up by testimony from known and trusted memebrs in good standing

and then the automatic boot to the scammer shunning department

not onyl would this serve as a punishment for those scumbags who steal from people, tell lies, etc

it would also serve as an example of dont let this happen to you

its not fair that those who abuse our trust,a nd help, and are exposed, are still left to the site to do more damage

i read the yahoo boarsd about once a week, it makes my rearend sick when i see scammer after scammer on those , out in the light of day

then people ask me, why dont you get active on _____ yahoo site

get real

i despise the thieves and scammers

i have donated so much to them its unreal

i
yes it makes my butt sick to see them post here on our community

Lex Luthor · 04-21-2006, 03:15 PM

I agree 100%

If you have shown a complete disregard for many users and have consistently been shown as a bad trader, you have no business on this forum.

I do think there are some circumstances where a banned user or bad trader can be reinstated on probation. For example CYN Calderon disappearred off the map for 6 months and several trades went bad. However when she came back it was explained that she went to the middle east on family emergency and really had very little internet access.

To my understanding she made good on all commitments (including myself) and re established her good trader reputation. I am sure there are others, we all know that sometimes life throws us curveballs and if someone appears to be a bad trader that is not necessarily the case.

If you are on the bad trader list you should be banned until proven otherwise. I think the mods are very careful before adding someone to this list and if they are there, it is for good reason.

I do not always check the bad trader listings so for the most part I take for granted that the people here posting are probably not on the list. If that is not the case, my vote is to change it.

Cheers
Jay

T-Greg · 04-21-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loren

in my 100% honest and blunt usual manner

i submit that every person who gets on the bad trader list, due to numerous users testimony, needs to be removed from the site on a permant basis

im not talking about stinky 243 that makes a 4 disc trade and is late

and not about stinky444 who amkes a swap and two discs dont work and he cant get redos from his source

im not talking about a slow person, etc

only a history of bad deals, lies, devious disregard for others, backed up by testimony from known and trusted memebrs in good standing

and then the automatic boot to the scammer shunning department

not onyl would this serve as a punishment for those scumbags who steal from people, tell lies, etc

it would also serve as an example of dont let this happen to you

its not fair that those who abuse our trust,a nd help, and are exposed, are still left to the site to do more damage

i read the yahoo boarsd about once a week, it makes my rearend sick when i see scammer after scammer on those , out in the light of day

then people ask me, why dont you get active on _____ yahoo site

get real

i despise the thieves and scammers

i have donated so much to them its unreal

i
yes it makes my butt sick to see them post here on our community

Maybe a "jury" could be selected to vote on it. The pool might consist of let's say "good traders with over X number of posts" or X number of years as a member. From that list, Savage might select 9 or 12 names at random. They would be emailed to see if they wished to participate as a "juror". If they declined, another name would be selected, until the alotted number were obtained. Then a vote would be taken. They could be sentenced to life at hard labor or in severe cases, "death"! OK. We can't do that...even if that's how some people feel. What do you think?

Lex Luthor · 04-21-2006, 03:41 PM

A jury of your peers, I LIKE it! Would have to be totally random though or maybe 1-2 mods, 3-4 junkies, 5-6 regulars kinda thing.

If we institute "Death Sentences" I would have to vote for the hangman to be Joker (he would be more hesitant cause once you kill them they are hard to torment).

loren · 04-21-2006, 03:58 PM

there was a plan for a trader commitee at one point

but the idea never got off the ground

no matter how its set up

it needs to be people who are active traders who --get around--

the last committee was comprised of a person who never traded

there were also restrictions made so that persons who sold, would be excluded

which excluded 95% of the most active traders--or more

just once it would be nice to see a committee that was assembled by merit, and not by political connection, or the title of ____ whatever

Dragonbear · 04-21-2006, 04:14 PM

Probably more like 98% would be excluded.

A committee seems like a good idea on the outside but when you get
to the heart of the matter. You're never going to make everyone happy
as far as who to ban and who not to ban. One person who got cheated
will go ballistic the first time the "committee" decides not to ban that person.
etc.

Savage did an excellent job of listing the criteria for being a bad trader.
but much of that ends up being opinion. Where one piece of the criteria
is important to one person, to another it doesn't matter at all.

As far as a jury goes. It's an idea. but honestly how many people are
going to actively participate in something like that? Even if it was
anonymous people are going to find out who said what and who decided
to ban who. Then tempers will flare and people will lose out on trades
to "friends" of the people accused.

Then you have to work in the idea of whether someone can be reformed
who has been labeled a bad trader but can reform themselves to be
a excellent trader. They learned they're lesson and made restitution
of all the past mistakes.

Lots of things to discuss there before worrying about how to pick a jury
of the peers of the group.

loren · 04-21-2006, 04:47 PM

i guess thats the difference in thought

i will publicly state my case and the facts for all to see

theres no need to remain unknown

to me thats underhanded

the fact remains theres a notorius thief on the bad trader list

and is still allowed to post and make trouble

and still make more poor deals

and is currently is a huge deal thats gone south

maybe the next deal they make is with you

and as far as going ballastic when a deal goes goes bad

please

didnt you read last week

i said i had a 133 disc trade that i wrote off as a total loss--and never made a bad trader post

why

because the person did everything possible to make good, and it just wasnt possible

they even reran the 133 discs, with the ty discs i provided

and still the new versons just wouldntt do it

so no, its not a witch hunt

its only for people who perform poorly over a period, and tell lies to cover, even when numerous trusted members tell the story

Lamont · 04-21-2006, 05:39 PM

That is true, even i screw up--- my first swap with loren-- a total disaster, but i fixed it and we moved past it

THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE

there are some people who flat out are bad traders---NOT AN OCCASIONAL MESS UP, or deal that goes south-- BUT AN OVER AND OVER AND OVER consistent pattern of lying, sending crap quality on crap discs, that often do not work.... of misrepresenting quality and completeness of stuff---- of LACK OF COMMUNICATION or, of OVERWHELMINGLY OBSESSIVE communication--- people who owe multliple traders large orders for months and months and months--- people who PRE-TRADE sets they do not even have yet ( YOU KNOW, so and so is sending me such and such, and then i have to send it to joe to get mike to send this..... and on and on--- and it falls all to hell and 3 or 4 get burned) THESE ARE BAD TRADERS

even good traders have deals that go bad---- one party is not happy, one party was slow or late--- or unexpected disc problems popped up--- it happens to ALL OF US
and we might get ticked off at the moment, but we move on b/c that trader 99% of the time is just fine

BUTTTTT I think anyone that has mulitple complaints about them (THAT ARE LEGIT) and has a PATTERN of complaints needs to be banned and canned----
and i think that other factors should play into it --- I KNOW THAT STUFF OFF THE BOARD stays off the board---- BUTTTTTTT

I also think that traders who have other problems on other boards (LIKE IF JOE SMITH has been banned on 5 other sites and shows up here--- THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT when reviewing his case)

of if SALLY JONES has a lot of issues with sending other users OBSCENE, THREATENING or VIOLENT emails--- that should be a mitigating circumstance -- not a reason in itself to ban anyone, BUTTT it should be considered when reviewing someones case

also, there are some traders who are not good traders, they have crap stuff, or they are new and dont know what the heck they are doing---- so we should take that into acccount too--- is this person just a newbie? who doesnt know a 6 of 10 from an 8 of 10? or have they been around the block a few times, and are just dishonest?

Dragonbear · 04-21-2006, 06:06 PM

Okay, so here is my question.

Who sets the idea of what is an excessive amount of problems?

Who gets to say 3 problems and your out, 4 problems and your out
5 problems and your out. Or is it based on % of problems.

As far as anonymous behavior. Look at the stuff that just got thrown
down over posts that were deleted and how that was taken completely
off the deep end. Do you really think that the same thing wouldn't happen
if someone who a popular trader liked would jump on a bandwagon of
character assasination?

Whether it's liked or not. It's been determined far too often that the maturity
level of the group here tends to fall on the kindgarten taunting and infighting
when people disagree. Logic gets thrown aside and then it becomes a name
calling contest.

I will give you an example. There is one trader on this board that I know has
at least 6 problems against them. And it was spelled out in the open what these problems were. They still continue to trade here and have never approached everyone who they have messed over. Some they approached
because it was more beneficial for them to fix them up. That way they could
ignore the other ones that weren't as popular or weren't as critical to they're
reputation.

But I would guarantee 100% that if I said the persons name on here or they're
sitcoms name on here that 10 people would say "no no no they shouldn't be banned they're good trader and then it ends up being a pissing contest.
But if what happened was described without names. Then people would
be lining up the lynch mobs from the get go.

You cannot set up a system of banning or censoring someone until you set up
the system to determine what an offense is and how much can be tolerated
by the system. And if the system is set up that allows popularity to determine attendence. Then it's doomed to fail.

JOEY1727 · 04-21-2006, 06:16 PM

OK..I KNOW I SHORTED LAMONT A DISK OF LOBO,,BUT IM SORRY DONT BANN ME,,I WANT CHEAT NO MORE,,OK MAYBE 1 MORE TIME,,I STILL GOT TO CHEAT LOREN SOME HOW,,,

loren · 04-21-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonbear

Okay, so here is my question.

Who sets the idea of what is an excessive amount of problems?

Who gets to say 3 problems and your out, 4 problems and your out
5 problems and your out. Or is it based on % of problems.

As far as anonymous behavior. Look at the stuff that just got thrown
down over posts that were deleted and how that was taken completely
off the deep end. Do you really think that the same thing wouldn't happen
if someone who a popular trader liked would jump on a bandwagon of
character assasination?

Whether it's liked or not. It's been determined far too often that the maturity
level of the group here tends to fall on the kindgarten taunting and infighting
when people disagree. Logic gets thrown aside and then it becomes a name
calling contest.

I will give you an example. There is one trader on this board that I know has
at least 6 problems against them. And it was spelled out in the open what these problems were. They still continue to trade here and have never approached everyone who they have messed over. Some they approached
because it was more beneficial for them to fix them up. That way they could
ignore the other ones that weren't as popular or weren't as critical to they're
reputation.

But I would guarantee 100% that if I said the persons name on here or they're
sitcoms name on here that 10 people would say "no no no they shouldn't be banned they're good trader and then it ends up being a pissing contest.
But if what happened was described without names. Then people would
be lining up the lynch mobs from the get go.

You cannot set up a system of banning or censoring someone until you set up
the system to determine what an offense is and how much can be tolerated
by the system. And if the system is set up that allows popularity to determine attendence. Then it's doomed to fail.

bullcookies

theres already a system to ban people

and almost everyone on the bad trader list has been banned

now all of a sudden, that has stopped for one reason or another

if you know of someone with numeorus problems, its your duty to inform the group and call them out

if you dont, thats the same as working with them, the next person that gets tore up, would surely like you to have said something

next

there an entire bunch of difference in having some disc here and there mess up, or one--package get lost, or forget a couple, whatever

than having numerous major problems,

the people on the bad trader list, have earned their way to the top

i have personaly been crapped on by almost everyone on the bad trader list

down2ozz · 04-21-2006, 07:34 PM

if you are on the bad trader list, how is it possibly ok to continue trading here. that makes no sense. so when a newbie signs up and starts trading, and doesn't know to check the bad trader list because they are new, they are going to possibly get screwed because we didn't want to hurt somebody's feelings. if you've done something to get on the bad traders list, why is it so hard to just ban them at the same time

savageamusement · 04-21-2006, 07:45 PM

To touch upon something CartoonDvd's Said

The bad trader list- is hard to be 100% sure on.
Some people do btohc up trades left and right, and do at some point try to fic it- and correct it.
It depends on how and why they came to be on the list

A good clue

When you see Bad trader "
Alias::
Alias:::
Alias::::

Thats a pretty solid tip

We do, try to investgate all we can before
We contact the user- we contact older trades, we post for feedback
we run address checks and IP checks-

We do what we can, before anything is put on that list

And any trader ON that list- can, if they wish contact us- and we will try to help them mediate the situation.

In example-
A user on the list:

She has been in contact with me, and is aware she is on it-
and is unhappy with it.

She has asked my advice, she has asked for my help to fix things, resolve.
Burner questions
Posting questions and so on.

Will she be able to repair her reputation- I don't know.

But that is why she isn't "Banned" but on the Bad Trader list-

Now that isn't to say that won't change-

I am just giving an example

There is a difference to a bad peson and bad trader
A different to a bad poster, or a bad trader.

It takes all sorts and we try to review nad make exception to all things.
Opinions, background, language barriers, hitory, other sites, users feedback, intentions - and so on.

So again, to just be named a bad trader, doesn't always mean POOF they go bye bye.

But, usaully 99% of the time, that does seem how it ends up.

But we do try to research everything, and we do try to allow users to make ammends-

Some people have made multiple mistakes, been deemed a bad trader/user and were able to work it out and cme back stronger than before.
Anything is possible-

Which is why this thread is So productive, because it is the feedback that really really helps in the communication and process of making these choices.

And as my previous thread this week stated-
There is more to being a bad trader, then just did you or didn't you get your discs
and I was THRILLED at the input and opinions posted on that, and the chance for people to speak up and say "YES yes that bothers me too, or wow I never thought of that"

loren · 04-21-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by down2ozz

if you are on the bad trader list, how is it possibly ok to continue trading here. that makes no sense. so when a newbie signs up and starts trading, and doesn't know to check the bad trader list because they are new, they are going to possibly get screwed because we didn't want to hurt somebody's feelings. if you've done something to get on the bad traders list, why is it so hard to just ban them at the same time

not a lot of people ever go to the top of the board to look

honestly, wouldnt you think that if a person is posting on a trade board, they woudlnt also be on that trade boards black list??

its not just for newbies

there are list of folks who read once in a while,and can skip over things

Lex Luthor · 04-21-2006, 08:18 PM

If they are on the list and not banned I think at minimum they should have something on their moniker.

i.e. on probation, potential trader risk.

This thread has made me want o go through the bad traders list and see who is here that is on that list. I had assumed that for the majority of cases they were banned.

Savage if you all of a sudden started scamming other traders (I picked you cause the least likely candidate) and many people came forward and said they were ripped off by you. I may defend our past history and issues but a bad trader is a bad trader. IMO if you are on the list you should be gone or on public probation.

I know easier said than done and you can see proof on Cmax how people are coming to Wolfs defense. But if we have a bad trader list at all then I believe those on it should not be here as it send the wrong message.

"you are a bad trader but if no one notices we will wait until you get someone else too"

I must say that I would never want to have the job as a mod because you can never make everyone happy. You guys have a tough job and like referees in sport every once in awhile there might be a borderline call but the game can't go on with you guys.

04-21-2006, 02:53 PM	#1
loren Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 11, 2005 Posts: 1,516	anyone on the bad trader list needs to be banned in my 100% honest and blunt usual manner i submit that every person who gets on the bad trader list, due to numerous users testimony, needs to be removed from the site on a permant basis im not talking about stinky 243 that makes a 4 disc trade and is late and not about stinky444 who amkes a swap and two discs dont work and he cant get redos from his source im not talking about a slow person, etc only a history of bad deals, lies, devious disregard for others, backed up by testimony from known and trusted memebrs in good standing and then the automatic boot to the scammer shunning department not onyl would this serve as a punishment for those scumbags who steal from people, tell lies, etc it would also serve as an example of dont let this happen to you its not fair that those who abuse our trust,a nd help, and are exposed, are still left to the site to do more damage i read the yahoo boarsd about once a week, it makes my rearend sick when i see scammer after scammer on those , out in the light of day then people ask me, why dont you get active on _____ yahoo site get real i despise the thieves and scammers i have donated so much to them its unreal i yes it makes my butt sick to see them post here on our community

04-21-2006, 04:14 PM	#6
Dragonbear balibt eisl kuschn Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 224	Probably more like 98% would be excluded. A committee seems like a good idea on the outside but when you get to the heart of the matter. You're never going to make everyone happy as far as who to ban and who not to ban. One person who got cheated will go ballistic the first time the "committee" decides not to ban that person. etc. Savage did an excellent job of listing the criteria for being a bad trader. but much of that ends up being opinion. Where one piece of the criteria is important to one person, to another it doesn't matter at all. As far as a jury goes. It's an idea. but honestly how many people are going to actively participate in something like that? Even if it was anonymous people are going to find out who said what and who decided to ban who. Then tempers will flare and people will lose out on trades to "friends" of the people accused. Then you have to work in the idea of whether someone can be reformed who has been labeled a bad trader but can reform themselves to be a excellent trader. They learned they're lesson and made restitution of all the past mistakes. Lots of things to discuss there before worrying about how to pick a jury of the peers of the group.
	__________________ balibt eisl kuschn http://www.savagetradersonline.com

04-21-2006, 05:39 PM	#8
Lamont Lamont says Smile! Forum Veteran Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Deep in the Heart of Nowhere Posts: 5,217	we all make mistakes That is true, even i screw up--- my first swap with loren-- a total disaster, but i fixed it and we moved past it THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE there are some people who flat out are bad traders---NOT AN OCCASIONAL MESS UP, or deal that goes south-- BUT AN OVER AND OVER AND OVER consistent pattern of lying, sending crap quality on crap discs, that often do not work.... of misrepresenting quality and completeness of stuff---- of LACK OF COMMUNICATION or, of OVERWHELMINGLY OBSESSIVE communication--- people who owe multliple traders large orders for months and months and months--- people who PRE-TRADE sets they do not even have yet ( YOU KNOW, so and so is sending me such and such, and then i have to send it to joe to get mike to send this..... and on and on--- and it falls all to hell and 3 or 4 get burned) THESE ARE BAD TRADERS even good traders have deals that go bad---- one party is not happy, one party was slow or late--- or unexpected disc problems popped up--- it happens to ALL OF US and we might get ticked off at the moment, but we move on b/c that trader 99% of the time is just fine BUTTTTT I think anyone that has mulitple complaints about them (THAT ARE LEGIT) and has a PATTERN of complaints needs to be banned and canned---- and i think that other factors should play into it --- I KNOW THAT STUFF OFF THE BOARD stays off the board---- BUTTTTTTT I also think that traders who have other problems on other boards (LIKE IF JOE SMITH has been banned on 5 other sites and shows up here--- THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT when reviewing his case) of if SALLY JONES has a lot of issues with sending other users OBSCENE, THREATENING or VIOLENT emails--- that should be a mitigating circumstance -- not a reason in itself to ban anyone, BUTTT it should be considered when reviewing someones case also, there are some traders who are not good traders, they have crap stuff, or they are new and dont know what the heck they are doing---- so we should take that into acccount too--- is this person just a newbie? who doesnt know a 6 of 10 from an 8 of 10? or have they been around the block a few times, and are just dishonest?
	__________________ I have not been trading for some time now, so please do not ask---- sorry, i cannot help you!

04-21-2006, 06:16 PM	#10
JOEY1727 did i do that? Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 08, 2005 Location: GA Posts: 532	PLEASE DONT OK..I KNOW I SHORTED LAMONT A DISK OF LOBO,,BUT IM SORRY DONT BANN ME,,I WANT CHEAT NO MORE,,OK MAYBE 1 MORE TIME,,I STILL GOT TO CHEAT LOREN SOME HOW,,,
	__________________ GET-R-DONE!! joey1727@juno.com CLICK HERE FOR MY LIST

04-21-2006, 07:45 PM	#13
savageamusement Cutest Couch Potato Senior Member Join Date: Oct 21, 2003 Posts: 2,103	To To touch upon something CartoonDvd's Said The bad trader list- is hard to be 100% sure on. Some people do btohc up trades left and right, and do at some point try to fic it- and correct it. It depends on how and why they came to be on the list A good clue When you see Bad trader " Alias:: Alias::: Alias:::: Thats a pretty solid tip We do, try to investgate all we can before We contact the user- we contact older trades, we post for feedback we run address checks and IP checks- We do what we can, before anything is put on that list And any trader ON that list- can, if they wish contact us- and we will try to help them mediate the situation. In example- A user on the list: She has been in contact with me, and is aware she is on it- and is unhappy with it. She has asked my advice, she has asked for my help to fix things, resolve. Burner questions Posting questions and so on. Will she be able to repair her reputation- I don't know. But that is why she isn't "Banned" but on the Bad Trader list- Now that isn't to say that won't change- I am just giving an example There is a difference to a bad peson and bad trader A different to a bad poster, or a bad trader. It takes all sorts and we try to review nad make exception to all things. Opinions, background, language barriers, hitory, other sites, users feedback, intentions - and so on. So again, to just be named a bad trader, doesn't always mean POOF they go bye bye. But, usaully 99% of the time, that does seem how it ends up. But we do try to research everything, and we do try to allow users to make ammends- Some people have made multiple mistakes, been deemed a bad trader/user and were able to work it out and cme back stronger than before. Anything is possible- Which is why this thread is So productive, because it is the feedback that really really helps in the communication and process of making these choices. And as my previous thread this week stated- There is more to being a bad trader, then just did you or didn't you get your discs and I was THRILLED at the input and opinions posted on that, and the chance for people to speak up and say "YES yes that bothers me too, or wow I never thought of that"
	__________________ WWW.SavageTraders.org To avoid channel surfing Wipeouts!

04-21-2006, 03:15 PM	#2
Lex Luthor I'm bringing Lexy back Senior Member Join Date: Jun 07, 2005 Location: The Great White North Posts: 2,374	I agree 100% If you have shown a complete disregard for many users and have consistently been shown as a bad trader, you have no business on this forum. I do think there are some circumstances where a banned user or bad trader can be reinstated on probation. For example CYN Calderon disappearred off the map for 6 months and several trades went bad. However when she came back it was explained that she went to the middle east on family emergency and really had very little internet access. To my understanding she made good on all commitments (including myself) and re established her good trader reputation. I am sure there are others, we all know that sometimes life throws us curveballs and if someone appears to be a bad trader that is not necessarily the case. If you are on the bad trader list you should be banned until proven otherwise. I think the mods are very careful before adding someone to this list and if they are there, it is for good reason. I do not always check the bad trader listings so for the most part I take for granted that the people here posting are probably not on the list. If that is not the case, my vote is to change it. Cheers Jay

04-21-2006, 03:41 PM	#4
Lex Luthor I'm bringing Lexy back Senior Member Join Date: Jun 07, 2005 Location: The Great White North Posts: 2,374	A jury of your peers, I LIKE it! Would have to be totally random though or maybe 1-2 mods, 3-4 junkies, 5-6 regulars kinda thing. If we institute "Death Sentences" I would have to vote for the hangman to be Joker (he would be more hesitant cause once you kill them they are hard to torment).

04-21-2006, 03:58 PM	#5
loren Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 11, 2005 Posts: 1,516	there was a plan for a trader commitee at one point but the idea never got off the ground no matter how its set up it needs to be people who are active traders who --get around-- the last committee was comprised of a person who never traded there were also restrictions made so that persons who sold, would be excluded which excluded 95% of the most active traders--or more just once it would be nice to see a committee that was assembled by merit, and not by political connection, or the title of ____ whatever

04-21-2006, 04:47 PM	#7
loren Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 11, 2005 Posts: 1,516	i guess thats the difference in thought i will publicly state my case and the facts for all to see theres no need to remain unknown to me thats underhanded the fact remains theres a notorius thief on the bad trader list and is still allowed to post and make trouble and still make more poor deals and is currently is a huge deal thats gone south maybe the next deal they make is with you and as far as going ballastic when a deal goes goes bad please didnt you read last week i said i had a 133 disc trade that i wrote off as a total loss--and never made a bad trader post why because the person did everything possible to make good, and it just wasnt possible they even reran the 133 discs, with the ty discs i provided and still the new versons just wouldntt do it so no, its not a witch hunt its only for people who perform poorly over a period, and tell lies to cover, even when numerous trusted members tell the story

04-21-2006, 06:06 PM	#9
Dragonbear balibt eisl kuschn Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 224	Okay, so here is my question. Who sets the idea of what is an excessive amount of problems? Who gets to say 3 problems and your out, 4 problems and your out 5 problems and your out. Or is it based on % of problems. As far as anonymous behavior. Look at the stuff that just got thrown down over posts that were deleted and how that was taken completely off the deep end. Do you really think that the same thing wouldn't happen if someone who a popular trader liked would jump on a bandwagon of character assasination? Whether it's liked or not. It's been determined far too often that the maturity level of the group here tends to fall on the kindgarten taunting and infighting when people disagree. Logic gets thrown aside and then it becomes a name calling contest. I will give you an example. There is one trader on this board that I know has at least 6 problems against them. And it was spelled out in the open what these problems were. They still continue to trade here and have never approached everyone who they have messed over. Some they approached because it was more beneficial for them to fix them up. That way they could ignore the other ones that weren't as popular or weren't as critical to they're reputation. But I would guarantee 100% that if I said the persons name on here or they're sitcoms name on here that 10 people would say "no no no they shouldn't be banned they're good trader and then it ends up being a pissing contest. But if what happened was described without names. Then people would be lining up the lynch mobs from the get go. You cannot set up a system of banning or censoring someone until you set up the system to determine what an offense is and how much can be tolerated by the system. And if the system is set up that allows popularity to determine attendence. Then it's doomed to fail.

04-21-2006, 07:34 PM	#12
down2ozz Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 05, 2005 Location: cincinnati, ohio Posts: 168	if you are on the bad trader list, how is it possibly ok to continue trading here. that makes no sense. so when a newbie signs up and starts trading, and doesn't know to check the bad trader list because they are new, they are going to possibly get screwed because we didn't want to hurt somebody's feelings. if you've done something to get on the bad traders list, why is it so hard to just ban them at the same time

04-21-2006, 08:18 PM	#15
Lex Luthor I'm bringing Lexy back Senior Member Join Date: Jun 07, 2005 Location: The Great White North Posts: 2,374	If they are on the list and not banned I think at minimum they should have something on their moniker. i.e. on probation, potential trader risk. This thread has made me want o go through the bad traders list and see who is here that is on that list. I had assumed that for the majority of cases they were banned. Savage if you all of a sudden started scamming other traders (I picked you cause the least likely candidate) and many people came forward and said they were ripped off by you. I may defend our past history and issues but a bad trader is a bad trader. IMO if you are on the list you should be gone or on public probation. I know easier said than done and you can see proof on Cmax how people are coming to Wolfs defense. But if we have a bad trader list at all then I believe those on it should not be here as it send the wrong message. "you are a bad trader but if no one notices we will wait until you get someone else too" I must say that I would never want to have the job as a mod because you can never make everyone happy. You guys have a tough job and like referees in sport every once in awhile there might be a borderline call but the game can't go on with you guys.