Bad traders, Bad Trading A Discussion

[savageamusement]

Over the last few weeks- several bad trader posts have popped up.
I don't need to name names, but some people popped up several times.

Now, when a user gets negative feedback- most often the first thing they do is argue it.
Whatever the reason, whatever the discussion, they argue it
And most often, in public.
And most often, not always but most often, whatever they were doing- even after it gets posted-
Should they trade again-
The behaviors pop up.

But since I have received an abundance of emails in regard to bad traders, bad trading, I would like to address a couple of the comments/questions publically.

What makes a bad Trader Savage?
Was asked of me Sunday night.
A member here, was toying with placing a bad trader thread- but admitted she had in fact received the discs.

Ultimately-
Yes getting the discs, the tapes, that is what the trade is for.
But there is MORE to trading

Trading starts to me, before the dsics or tapes are even being MADE.

How did they approach you?
Were they polite, were they in good communication.
The details on their list-
Were they forth coming about quality and questions

These are aspects of trading that should, and do get considered for most of us. Even if overlooked for the overall package.


When you started making their order
Were they in good communication
Were they fair about shipping

When you GOT them
Was it good quality media?
Were they lableled or easy to read/understand
Was it complete as they said
Or was the quality as they stated?


When it was over
Did they thank you
Did they leave feedback for you
Were you overall left wanting to trade them again?


Now individually, ONE item off the above might not be enough to cease you from trading the person.
Let's face it if the trader has the rare show from 1908 with Abe Lincolns ghost in it, and you want it-
How they leave feedback might not matter. The disc quality might not matter.
But in all, these are aspects of a trader/and trade that do get placed into the overall package of trading.

And often times people feel that if they get their discs.
Bam, thats it- the trader is good.

When in all honesty, if just sending the media was all that mattered, I wouldn't receive the complaints that I do- and the rush that I do.
I know more than the actual disc matters-

So for those who have been afraid to come forward, or start thread wars-
Several have asked me to post a general feeling or opinion of expectations- so that YOU the community can read this and give your feebback

What it comes down to for me is this

Getting the discs is the ultimate goal.
But the travel to that destination is what ultimately gets traders to come back
After all few shows are SO rare they can only get them from one person.

If I am going to choose one trader over another, I do consider their list- But I also consider their conduct.

And I expect certain conduct in that trade.

Now I am not going to beat aroudn the bush, when I said one trader in particular was getting a lot of heat lately- especially in threads- I was being honest.
And the above is not specificially about any one user.

But what I will say, with that user in mind- and I say this publically
Is that your word as a trader is all you have.
Your reputation is what most often will define you as a good trader.
It is possible for any good trader to botch up a trade-
I have botched up a tade-
Counted on discs that didn't work
Or miscalculated quality.
Lost a package, had to redo a package- or simply fell behind due to outside circumstances.
Things HAPPEN.

But how you HANDLE those things, is what is going to make the difference.

And as long as I am addressing issues-
I have received about 6-7 compliants-
that users have been bothered, or even borderline harrassed by a user, from excessive contact- and what can I do as a moderator to stop that.
UHmmmm
Nothing-except for bring it to their attention-
unfortunately if you decide to exchange email addresses or beyond that scope, a phone number.
How often someone contacts you is solely up to them
So my advice is be firm and express your boundries.
Don't assume they know how you feel.
Don't assume they will just stop-
Tell them it bothers you, or aggrivates you- and ask them to STOP
And stick to it.
If things are simply unmanageable and you can not gain ground on those boundries-
There is a way to block emails on most servers
There is a way to block private messages on here
And there are ways to file internet or even phone harrasment complaints.

And the reason I am addressing this subject is not to confuse issues, but because I stress these are aspects of conduct.

Some of these are age old issues that come up, different user, different trade- same issue.


So I have addressed all that has come to me privately this week, as most requested feedback and opinions- I leave this open for a calm, community discussion.

[falc04]

An excellent post Savage...I concur with your statements 100%

[april4972]

Savage,

Thank you for this post! I was wondering about all of that...to me, a bad trader has always just been someone who doesn't send their end of the trade but in the past 2 weeks, I've had 3 experiences that I would now describe as "bad trades," based on your post! My 2 main complaints with recent trades:

1. It isn't hard to let the other person know you received their package and a simple thanks is a nice gesture. That person took the time to make your videos or DVDs, is it so hard to let them know you received them? I'm tired of people telling me they have too many trades and don't have time to even acknowledge a package has arrived and I don't think I should have to track it myself, just to see if they got it. I won't be trading with people that don't do that anymore...I think it's very rude!

2. When you let a trader know there is a problem with a show they sent, they should at least respond with some kind of an answer, maybe they weren't aware about the problem (out of synch audio, missing beginnings of shows, etc.) or an unplayable DVD. Just because they sent it, doesn't mean it's "ok."

Anyway, just my opinion...I'm a SLOW trader so hopefully that doesn't make me a bad trader. I always come thru and ask very little of the other person so I don't think that the above is asking for very much!

Stephanie

[marvelousmarcus]

Steph, just in case it might have been me. I would publically like to give you a big THANK YOU for season 1 of Dancing with the Stars!

I also wanted to let you know I have season 2 if you are interested.

[savageamusement]

As you said April, you had been wondering and I think alot of people had


And I am sure I didn't strike upon every aspect.
I am just saying there is more to trading then just being reliable enough to copy some discs.


I hope to hear more from more of the community as well

[april4972]

Originally Posted by Marcus

Steph, just in case it might have been me. I would publically like to give you a big THANK YOU for season 1 of Dancing with the Stars!

I also wanted to let you know I have season 2 if you are interested.

HI Marcus!
You DID send me a "thank you" email and I appreciated that....thanks for the offer for Season 2 but I do already have it. It is just a disorganized mess and not ready to trade out is all......Thanks for posting, that was really nice.
Stephanie

[Lamont]

1. i too am bad about emailing to confirm that items arrived, i just get busy and forget

2. what ticks me off is BAD TRADERS who reply to bad trader posts and DO NOT ADDRESS the issues at all--- this is a constant complaint of mine

I mean GO BACK AND REREAD the bad trader posts of the last 2 weeks, u will see that all BAD TRADERS men and Women, NEVER REPLY TO THE issues--- they just accuse people of lying or they say they were confused, or the accuse people of forging the emails or they say they dont know what u r talking about---- I mean come on people, WHEN SOMEONE posts LEGIT ISSUES and makes the problems VERY CLEAR and u do not reply to the issues but just want to say a generic I MADE MISTAKES or just want to say, that the other person is a BULLY-- everyone who reads the replies, KNOWS THAT YOU ARE LYING and FULL OF IT

3. the issue of communication is fine, BUT we all know that there are those who OVER COMMUNICATE be it with emails, phone calls, or smoke signals, they do it to the point of insanity

4. and there are those who have an issue with someone BUT WILL NOT EMAIL THEM DIRECT TO CONFRONT THEM and try to work it out--- i mean, if u have a problem, EMAIL THE OTHER PARTY first and try to work it out, just dont fly off the handle

just my 2 cents worth of butting in

[savageamusement]

Your not butting in Lamont

This is why I posted the thread

I want feedback
I want to give a place to vent

A lot of people feel slighted because they are afraid if the post about condcut it won't be taken seriously, if the disc count adds up

I want the many areas of this to be addressed, or areas I missed-
So that those it might be applicable to- can read it, digest it, and perhaps change it.
As well- those of you who have been sutffing how you feel, or feel resentful can say how you feel in a more generlized area-without attacking anyone else
and get support that you aren't the only that feels that way.

BUTT in, Vent - thats what its here for.
No way to make changes until things are said, out in the open.

[Lamont]

is when a bad trader does not even respond to being a bad trader---- to me that is like saying I DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THIS BOARD OR MY REPUTATION and thumbing your nose at us all!

I mean we all make mistakes, but if u have so many that it becomes an issue, either respond to it- or leave the board---- thats how I see it, but when u just duck the issues and hide.....

[lilhave]

Originally Posted by Lamont

1. i too am bad about emailing to confirm that items arrived, i just get busy and forget

2. what ticks me off is BAD TRADERS who reply to bad trader posts and DO NOT ADDRESS the issues at all--- this is a constant complaint of mine

I mean GO BACK AND REREAD the bad trader posts of the last 2 weeks, u will see that all BAD TRADERS men and Women, NEVER REPLY TO THE issues--- they just accuse people of lying or they say they were confused, or the accuse people of forging the emails or they say they dont know what u r talking about---- I mean come on people, WHEN SOMEONE posts LEGIT ISSUES and makes the problems VERY CLEAR and u do not reply to the issues but just want to say a generic I MADE MISTAKES or just want to say, that the other person is a BULLY-- everyone who reads the replies, KNOWS THAT YOU ARE LYING and FULL OF IT

3. the issue of communication is fine, BUT we all know that there are those who OVER COMMUNICATE be it with emails, phone calls, or smoke signals, they do it to the point of insanity

4. and there are those who have an issue with someone BUT WILL NOT EMAIL THEM DIRECT TO CONFRONT THEM and try to work it out--- i mean, if u have a problem, EMAIL THE OTHER PARTY first and try to work it out, just dont fly off the handle

just my 2 cents worth of butting in

You summed up the past two weeks with a concise, well thought out, well prepared post. I think everyone can see what transpired and why there was such frustration.

Of course one individual on reading this will bombard Savage with a barrage of emails, demanding the post to be removed because it's directed towards her. But, oh well, that's what to be expected.

Harvey

[Dragonbear]

First I think you summed up a lot of what was needing to get out into the open
as far as the good trader/bad trader thing.

The one thing that I noticed is that in too many occasions people are just geared up to start yelling bad trader. Sometimes it's legit. Often times it's legitimate. but there are the occasions that you find that they waited
1 week for they're package or that in one case I remember, they wanted to know why they hadn't shipped it the next day.

The idea of a bad traders list and to bring bad traders to light is to protect others and also to hopefully have them finish the trade they offered. Or get
them to become pariahs to society. But sometimes it's been used as a weapon.

In one case for someone who was a veteran trader used the bad traders list as a means to an end. To get more discs or to get "better" discs than
what was offered. They don't post that much on this site anymore though
I know the read the boards often. But even to things it sets a precedent
to use what is a tool for protection as something to gain an advantage
in a trade.

Savage set up a good general guideline on why someone should or shouldn't
be a bad trader. And it probably should be with some tweaking a personal
look at how we end up marking someone as a good or a bad trader.

[Lamont]

the BAD TRADERS i was refering to and that I posted to were all VETERAN TRADERS, but that means zilch, b/c people often start out well, and end up as crapola

so be warned