Real writers vs. characters - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

BWLuv · 03-19-2006, 09:42 PM

The real writers of TDVDS were brilliant, but it always amazed me that the character writers of Rob, Sally & Buddy were not very good. It seems to me that they wrote really corny stuff, including for The Alan Brady Show. Even the material they wrote for outside the show wasn't too great...like the routines Sally & Buddy did - the laugh guarantee-er - the show they did at the lodge - or even the material Buddy & Rob wrote for Freddy White in Jiltin the Jilter. I know they were only characters, but their comedy writing, I thought. was poor.

JudgeGarth · 03-20-2006, 12:24 AM

The tastes in stand-up comedy were a lot different then than they are today.

MillieHelper · 03-22-2006, 08:13 PM

I always thought that routine that they wrote for Kenny Dexter was awfully stupid and not too funny either, I mean "Witchtawchoo"

Some of the funniest routines were done by others " Danny Brewster in the beginning when he did that series of impressions was pretty funny and really topical for DVD show.

SawgrassSteve · 06-22-2006, 10:31 PM

Good points, all. And I have to agree with JudgeGarth; all artistic expressions are a product of the times in which they were created.
Could Doris Day become a singing, acting sensation in today's world?
I love to watch the original repeats of "What's My Line," on GSN satellite channel. My wife watches occassionally, and commented that all the stars were much older than today's stars. So youth, back then, was not a pre-requisit to fame, in those days.
Back to comedy, even when I look at old Richard Pryor tapes (yes, I'm guilty), though he was once called the funniest man alive, he doesn't seem as funny as he did back in his day.

Steve

JudgeGarth · 06-22-2006, 11:18 PM

That routine they "wrote" for Freddie White in "Jilting the Jilter" was designed to take advantage of comic Guy Marks' (the guy who played Freddie) special schtick. Those impressions of an ostrich and a fly were part of his (Guy Marks) regular comedy routine.

BWLuv · 06-25-2006, 10:19 AM

Thanks for the background, but it was still a bad routine.

TV Knowledge Fan · 06-26-2006, 02:50 PM

....Guy Marks didn't last too long as a regular cast member on "THE JOEY BISHOP SHOW" that season. His brand of comedy obviously didn't "mesh" with Joey's- but Corbett Monica, a good stand-up comic, DID.

Marks' career didn't go so well in the '60s. Perhaps the image of playing such an obnoxious and unsympathetic comic like "Freddie White" was a reason. The only other regular TV credit he had that decade was playing the sarcastic Indian "Pink Cloud" on Tim Conway's "RANGO" (1967). I remember that "novelty" record he recorded in 1968, "Loving You Has Made Me Bananas" (where he's a big band crooner performing a medley of song titles that all run together); that was pretty good.

NOW, as for the image of the "Writing Staff" on "The Alan Brady Show"- Carl Reiner KNEW what a "writer's bullpen" was all about, having worked in one on Sid Caesar's "YOUR SHOW OF SHOWS" and "CAESAR'S HOUR"; there may have been some exaggeration in the way Rob, Buddy and Sally worked, but their professional collaborations were right on the money! When you have talented writers like Sheldon Keller & Howard Merrill and Jay Burton (a former writer for Milton Berle) & Ernie Chambers and Garry Marshall & Jerry Belson AND Marty Ragaway (he worked for Red Skelton, one of the most egotistical AND demanding comedians on TV), who actually WORKED on variety shows and knew what "the grind" was all about, you have a pretty accurate portrayal of what TV writers had to endure in the '50s and '60s. The egos, the deadlines, the material that "just didn't work out", the inspiration for those that DID, the long nights and complications.....yes, that's part of what "THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW" was all about.

As for the situation in "Big Max Calvada", try to remember that our trio had to write for the untalented nephew of a BIG "gangster" (probably Sheldon Leonard's best guest appearance in the '60s, satirizing his own "mob" image in films and TV). Even if you wrote the best seventeen minutes of comedy material in the entire world [what George Burns called "The Golden Routine"], it doesn't mean ---- if the performer doesn't have the talent to "put it over". That's what was so funny about THIS situation- Rob, Buddy and Sally figure if they DON'T write the funniest routine in the world for Kenny, they'll get rubbed out! WE know whatever Rob and company creates, it's funny. It's even MORE funnier if the jerk they wrote it for is such an uncoordinated and tone-deaf performer, the material "dies"...as they figure THEY will after the performance.

jehobden · 07-02-2006, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

....Guy Marks didn't last too long as a regular cast member on "THE JOEY BISHOP SHOW" that season. His brand of comedy obviously didn't "mesh" with Joey's- but Corbett Monica, a good stand-up comic, DID.

Marks' career didn't go so well in the '60s. Perhaps the image of playing such an obnoxious and unsympathetic comic like "Freddie White" was a reason. The only other regular TV credit he had that decade was playing the sarcastic Indian "Pink Cloud" on Tim Conway's "RANGO" (1967). I remember that "novelty" record he recorded in 1968, "Loving You Has Made Me Bananas" (where he's a big band crooner performing a medley of song titles that all run together); that was pretty good.

Marks also had a regular role in "The John Forsythe Show", 1965-66 on NBC, and was carried over into the series' second format which, in the days when tv was going spy-crazy, dropped the original girls' school idea and had his character & Forsythe's becoming secret agents. He also had a role late in his life as a recurring character on "You Again", which starred Jack Klugman & John Stamos, as one of Klugman's character's close friends.

TV Knowledge Fan · 07-03-2006, 12:32 PM

...about Guy's co-starring gig on "THE JOHN FORSYTHE SHOW"! It's available from NBC Universal- they have the episodes in their "vault"- IF they can remember what they HAVE in there!!!

BWLuv · 07-03-2006, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

....

NOW, as for the image of the "Writing Staff" on "The Alan Brady Show"- Carl Reiner KNEW what a "writer's bullpen" was all about, having worked in one on Sid Caesar's "YOUR SHOW OF SHOWS" and "CAESAR'S HOUR"; there may have been some exaggeration in the way Rob, Buddy and Sally worked, but their professional collaborations were right on the money! When you have talented writers like Sheldon Keller & Howard Merrill and Jay Burton (a former writer for Milton Berle) & Ernie Chambers and Garry Marshall & Jerry Belson AND Marty Ragaway (he worked for Red Skelton, one of the most egotistical AND demanding comedians on TV), who actually WORKED on variety shows and knew what "the grind" was all about, you have a pretty accurate portrayal of what TV writers had to endure in the '50s and '60s. The egos, the deadlines, the material that "just didn't work out", the inspiration for those that DID, the long nights and complications.....yes, that's part of what "THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW" was all about.

Fine, the image and acting is great BUT the routines they (Buddy, Sally, Rob) came up in with were terrible. The actual writing of the show was terrific.

MillieHelper · 07-08-2006, 01:31 PM

I agree with BW. I realize that Alan Brady was a family show and they had to avoid risque or timely material. It was kind of limited as to what they could present in the two minutes or so. Many of the routines were so corny but that was popular in the 50's & early 60's. My father loved all the corny stuff and that was his era. Some of the routines that make me cringe

1) Kenny Dexter & Witchtachoo
2) Freddie White & his farm yard ramblings
3) Sally's appearances of Stevie Parsons

treky · 07-10-2006, 01:36 AM

I remember seeing Dick on a CBS special in 1994 called "The Dick Van Dyke show remembered" (clips from it are on the DVD sets) and he was saying some people told him they decided to become comedy writers, because they used to watch Rob, Buddy & Sally. Then they got into it and found it's not like that at all!

TV Knowledge Fan · 07-10-2006, 10:37 AM

....when Sally appears on "The Stevie Parsons Show", but 'millie', that ongoing plotline was based on what Selma Diamond actually did when she occasionally appeared on Johnny Carson's "TONIGHT SHOW" in the mid-'60s {I believe I mentioned this once, but it's time to remind most of you again...}. She wisecracked her way through every appearance and kept "advertising" for potential boyfriends, the way Sally did. It really happened, and Carl Reiner was aware of this.......

BWLuv · 07-10-2006, 05:01 PM

The Sally routine on the Parson's show I don't mind because that was part of her personna. But those corny jokes and routines for others were annoying and dumb.

treky · 07-11-2006, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

....when Sally appears on "The Stevie Parsons Show", but 'millie', that ongoing plotline was based on what Selma Diamond actually did when she occasionally appeared on Johnny Carson's "TONIGHT SHOW" in the mid-'60s {I believe I mentioned this once, but it's time to remind most of you again...}. She wisecracked her way through every appearance and kept "advertising" for potential boyfriends, the way Sally did. It really happened, and Carl Reiner was aware of this.......

TV Knowledge Fan (or anyone who knows) wasn't Selma Diamond the real comedy writer that Carl Reiner based Sally Rodgers on?

03-19-2006, 09:42 PM	#1
BWLuv Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 21, 2004 Posts: 203	Real writers vs. characters The real writers of TDVDS were brilliant, but it always amazed me that the character writers of Rob, Sally & Buddy were not very good. It seems to me that they wrote really corny stuff, including for The Alan Brady Show. Even the material they wrote for outside the show wasn't too great...like the routines Sally & Buddy did - the laugh guarantee-er - the show they did at the lodge - or even the material Buddy & Rob wrote for Freddy White in Jiltin the Jilter. I know they were only characters, but their comedy writing, I thought. was poor.

03-22-2006, 08:13 PM	#3
MillieHelper Forum Cutie Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 08, 2006 Location: Chicago Area Posts: 130	I always thought that routine that they wrote for Kenny Dexter was awfully stupid and not too funny either, I mean "Witchtawchoo" Some of the funniest routines were done by others " Danny Brewster in the beginning when he did that series of impressions was pretty funny and really topical for DVD show.
	__________________ Linda A is A

06-22-2006, 10:31 PM	#4
SawgrassSteve Loyal Worshipper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 04, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,423	Good points, all. And I have to agree with JudgeGarth; all artistic expressions are a product of the times in which they were created. Could Doris Day become a singing, acting sensation in today's world? I love to watch the original repeats of "What's My Line," on GSN satellite channel. My wife watches occassionally, and commented that all the stars were much older than today's stars. So youth, back then, was not a pre-requisit to fame, in those days. Back to comedy, even when I look at old Richard Pryor tapes (yes, I'm guilty), though he was once called the funniest man alive, he doesn't seem as funny as he did back in his day. Steve
	__________________ The Cult Of Laura

06-26-2006, 02:50 PM	#7
TV Knowledge Fan Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 29, 2006 Location: Long Branch, N.J. Posts: 2,577	That's probably why.... ....Guy Marks didn't last too long as a regular cast member on "THE JOEY BISHOP SHOW" that season. His brand of comedy obviously didn't "mesh" with Joey's- but Corbett Monica, a good stand-up comic, DID. Marks' career didn't go so well in the '60s. Perhaps the image of playing such an obnoxious and unsympathetic comic like "Freddie White" was a reason. The only other regular TV credit he had that decade was playing the sarcastic Indian "Pink Cloud" on Tim Conway's "RANGO" (1967). I remember that "novelty" record he recorded in 1968, "Loving You Has Made Me Bananas" (where he's a big band crooner performing a medley of song titles that all run together); that was pretty good. NOW, as for the image of the "Writing Staff" on "The Alan Brady Show"- Carl Reiner KNEW what a "writer's bullpen" was all about, having worked in one on Sid Caesar's "YOUR SHOW OF SHOWS" and "CAESAR'S HOUR"; there may have been some exaggeration in the way Rob, Buddy and Sally worked, but their professional collaborations were right on the money! When you have talented writers like Sheldon Keller & Howard Merrill and Jay Burton (a former writer for Milton Berle) & Ernie Chambers and Garry Marshall & Jerry Belson AND Marty Ragaway (he worked for Red Skelton, one of the most egotistical AND demanding comedians on TV), who actually WORKED on variety shows and knew what "the grind" was all about, you have a pretty accurate portrayal of what TV writers had to endure in the '50s and '60s. The egos, the deadlines, the material that "just didn't work out", the inspiration for those that DID, the long nights and complications.....yes, that's part of what "THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW" was all about. As for the situation in "Big Max Calvada", try to remember that our trio had to write for the untalented nephew of a BIG "gangster" (probably Sheldon Leonard's best guest appearance in the '60s, satirizing his own "mob" image in films and TV). Even if you wrote the best seventeen minutes of comedy material in the entire world [what George Burns called "The Golden Routine"], it doesn't mean ---- if the performer doesn't have the talent to "put it over". That's what was so funny about THIS situation- Rob, Buddy and Sally figure if they DON'T write the funniest routine in the world for Kenny, they'll get rubbed out! WE know whatever Rob and company creates, it's funny. It's even MORE funnier if the jerk they wrote it for is such an uncoordinated and tone-deaf performer, the material "dies"...as they figure THEY will after the performance.

07-03-2006, 12:32 PM	#9
TV Knowledge Fan Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 29, 2006 Location: Long Branch, N.J. Posts: 2,577	I completely forgot... ...about Guy's co-starring gig on "THE JOHN FORSYTHE SHOW"! It's available from NBC Universal- they have the episodes in their "vault"- IF they can remember what they HAVE in there!!!

03-20-2006, 12:24 AM	#2
JudgeGarth Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 07, 2004 Location: Wheaton, IL Posts: 443	The tastes in stand-up comedy were a lot different then than they are today.

06-22-2006, 11:18 PM	#5
JudgeGarth Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 07, 2004 Location: Wheaton, IL Posts: 443	That routine they "wrote" for Freddie White in "Jilting the Jilter" was designed to take advantage of comic Guy Marks' (the guy who played Freddie) special schtick. Those impressions of an ostrich and a fly were part of his (Guy Marks) regular comedy routine.

06-25-2006, 10:19 AM	#6
BWLuv Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 21, 2004 Posts: 203	Thanks for the background, but it was still a bad routine.

07-08-2006, 01:31 PM	#11
MillieHelper Forum Cutie Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 08, 2006 Location: Chicago Area Posts: 130	I agree with BW. I realize that Alan Brady was a family show and they had to avoid risque or timely material. It was kind of limited as to what they could present in the two minutes or so. Many of the routines were so corny but that was popular in the 50's & early 60's. My father loved all the corny stuff and that was his era. Some of the routines that make me cringe 1) Kenny Dexter & Witchtachoo 2) Freddie White & his farm yard ramblings 3) Sally's appearances of Stevie Parsons

07-10-2006, 01:36 AM	#12
treky star trek fan Eternal Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Feb 25, 2002 Location: Conshohocken, pennsylvania Posts: 14,490	I remember seeing Dick on a CBS special in 1994 called "The Dick Van Dyke show remembered" (clips from it are on the DVD sets) and he was saying some people told him they decided to become comedy writers, because they used to watch Rob, Buddy & Sally. Then they got into it and found it's not like that at all!
	__________________ the Clampetts are in a fancy Beverly Hills jewelry store. Granny points to a tray of rubies. Granny: "How much fer one o' them red diamonds?" clerk: "Madam, those are rubies." Granny: "OK ask her kin we buy one offa her." clerk: " The ruby I am talking about is not a lady." Granny: "Lissen, how she got them diamonds is her business. I'm just sayin' ask her kin we buy one from her."

07-10-2006, 10:37 AM	#13
TV Knowledge Fan Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 29, 2006 Location: Long Branch, N.J. Posts: 2,577	I realize you might be cringing.... ....when Sally appears on "The Stevie Parsons Show", but 'millie', that ongoing plotline was based on what Selma Diamond actually did when she occasionally appeared on Johnny Carson's "TONIGHT SHOW" in the mid-'60s {I believe I mentioned this once, but it's time to remind most of you again...}. She wisecracked her way through every appearance and kept "advertising" for potential boyfriends, the way Sally did. It really happened, and Carl Reiner was aware of this.......

07-10-2006, 05:01 PM	#14
BWLuv Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 21, 2004 Posts: 203	The Sally routine on the Parson's show I don't mind because that was part of her personna. But those corny jokes and routines for others were annoying and dumb.