Who thinks Kenneth McDuff murdered Angela Hammond? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

crystaldawn · 03-03-2006, 12:47 PM

Of course there has been a lot of discussion on here about Angela Hammond. I know that some of you believe serial killer Kenneth McDuff murdered her (although she's never been found dead or alive). I thought it would be interesting to take a pole and see how its divided. I would also like to know why you do or don't think McDuff is responsible. Admittedly I don't know much about McDuff except that he was a serial killer and has already been executed so I don't really have an opinion on this one.

Kane · 03-03-2006, 01:02 PM

As of now, I don't see any evidence that he had any involvement in her disappearance. So, until proven otherwise, my answer is no.

Of course, he was captured in Missouri in May 1992, after being on the run for only a few months. This was one year after Angela Hammond disappeared. But it's unknown whether he had ever been to Missouri before.

RightOnDude · 03-03-2006, 02:43 PM

I think it's quite likely that he did. The crime bears similarities to previous rapes/murders he comitted. He was in the area near the same time. He often offered to give more evidence in order to save his butt for a few more months, but finally Texas grew sick of that and just offed his sorry self. What a pitiful excuse for human excrement.

jeeps · 03-03-2006, 06:00 PM

Hi crystaldawn,

Have you ever seen a picture of McDuff? Is he creepy? Does he look scooters?

Just wondering because that seems to be the lasting impression from that night...that and the fish jumping out of the lake mural on the window of his rusted truck.

Certainly one of the more disturbing stories on UM.

jeeps

crystaldawn · 03-03-2006, 06:06 PM

Well I remember they did show a picture of him at the end of the Colleen Reed segment and I didn't really see a resemblance to the composite sketch in the Angela Hammond case. Here's a website with several pictures of him:

http://www.garylavergne.com/mcduffmugs.htm

jeeps · 03-03-2006, 06:22 PM

Hmmm. We'll talk more and you can filll me in. I suppose it's useless banking on the grubby look since anyone - even murderers - can wash up.

The saddest part is that there's no closure for the family. And you could see the agony in her boyfriend's face knowing he was close to saving her..yet couldn't.

jeeps

Awsi Dooger · 03-03-2006, 11:36 PM

Too easy. Propose one person vs. the rest of the world and I'll take the field almost every time, and love my chances. I can tell you point blank, as someone who works in stats and consults Las Vegas oddsmakers, if a casino were to put up bettable odds on this, Kenneth McDuff as the perpetrator wouldn't even register 5% likelihood. In fact, that's way too high. The wise guys would chew up an opportunity like that, betting every other possibility against one theoretical one. It's the reverse of the Richard McCoy as DB Cooper angle, where the guy who pulled off a near identical crime mere months later would be a huge favorite to also have been DB Cooper.

I learned the hard way. I moved to Las Vegas more than 15 years ago and thought I was a hot shot handicapper who could isolate winners and ignore the mathematical aspects. For example, even if a Boris Becker was a huge favorite, like 1/5, I'd bet him anyway if I were sure he was going to win. The local sharpies respected me but said I'd eventually learn, that you had to take advantage of the long term mathematical advantage, even if it meant betting on teams or players you thought were going to lose. How right they were. Even if I thought McDuff was more likely than any other named suspect, in a 50/50 poll like this you have to pick no and you'll be right much more often than not.

I'm always frustrated and amazed on these true crime shows that law enforcement and prosecutors seem to be clueless regarding basic probability. For example, they'll repeatedly guess of a suspect, "well, we think he's probably incarcerated or dead," even when that flies in the face of probability, based on his age or percentage of people who are in jail.

I guarantee in the future there will be a much greater understanding of a need for crossover education, so law enforcement will be able to see a specific injury or piece of evidence and be able to closely estimate if it links to another crime or criminal, instead of scattergun guesswork. Henry Lee seems to have a great understanding of blood patterns, etc. and how they relate to what likely happened, but I don't see much of that elsewhere.

Kane · 03-04-2006, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightOnDude

What a pitiful excuse for human excrement.

I feel the same as you. I felt outrage after I learned more about Kenneth McDuff, and that was in early 1993, when America's Most Wanted did a follow-up story on him, which included his conviction and being sentenced to death for the 1992 murder of Melissa Ann Northup. I was confused as to how anyone would grant parole for a three-time killer. Then I learned that prison overcrowding was a factor. But what finalized the parole was the carelessness of the parole board, which failed to carefully review McDuff's record (if they reviewed it at all).

The case of Kenneth McDuff is a frightening story of what could happen if a violent offender earns parole. It also shows that some people are incapable of being reformed. However, if you're only doing minor offenses, you still have a good chance to be rehabilitated. But once you go as far as, say, murdering someone or becoming a child molester, you end up decreasing any hopes of being successfully rehabilited. So there are people whose criminal behavior is so severe that, no matter what method of treatment you offer them, they will still be leopards that don't change their spots.

LooksLikeCRicci · 03-06-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKook

Why isn't Bill Wacker one of the choices?

OMG, is he serious? Let it go, man. It's not funny anymore.

crystaldawn · 03-06-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

OMG, is he serious? Let it go, man. It's not funny anymore.

I couldn't agree more!!

kadrmas15 · 03-11-2006, 09:20 AM

Okay, it is entirely possible that Kenneth McDuff murdered Angela Hammond. However there are certain things about it that dont add up. The biggest one being if McDuff in fact killed her I think he would have admitted to it. McDuff was already in prison and serving time on death row when he was asked if he had anything to do with her disapperance and he denied any involvement. I dont think he would have had any reason to lie and I think had he done it he would have admitted to it. It is quite clear that there were other crimes going on that were being done by the same person. I think the two other crimes that occured before Hammond were also done by the same person. Who it was remains to be known. Could have it been McDuff? Of course, he wasnt in prison at the time and he was known to have committed crimes similar to it. As for Bill Wacker whomever made that comment about him made it in very poor taste. When thinking about the Wacker case yes I did consider whether Bill himself was actually the one responsible. Some of the attacks occured when Bill wasnt home or wasnt right with his wife. However just as many occured when he was home. Also what motivation would Bill have to start doing that after over 45 years of marriage? It just wouldnt make sense. I dont know who was doing it, but I am pretty sure it was someone that knew the Wackers even if they didnt know him he sure knew them because those attacks were so personable. Also he seemed to know where stuff was and when the Wackers would be doing certain things.

kadrmas15 · 08-27-2006, 06:30 PM

I have now changed my opinion on this. I dont think it was McDuff that did it. The reason why I changed my opinion is that I saw a picture of him at the end of the Colleen Reed segment and he looked nothing like the man Angela Hammond described to Rob. I am pretty sure the same guy killed Hammond that killed those two other women in Missouri in the weeks and months before Hammond. I hope he is in prison for another crime but I wouldnt hold my breath. I am sure this guy has kept killing although he might have moved to another area because of the publicity. I am trying to think of who the guy might have been. You know who the guy kind of looked like? Randall Utterback. It isnt entirely out of the question. Utterback went through stages where his hair was long or buzz cut. He also sometimes had a beard but not all the time. He changed his apperance often it seemed. But when I look at the guy who was described by Hammond, when I think of it, I think of Randall Utterback. Although I dont think Utterback would have the balls to actually kill someone but you never know. An interesting theory none the less. As for McDuff, isnt he like the only guy ever to have been paroled while on death row?

Kane · 08-27-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

As for McDuff, isnt he the only guy ever to have been paroled while on death row?

Unfortunately, there is another one: Ted Anthony Prevatte. He and William Jordan killed a man named James Rouse in 1974. According to the UM segment that aired in 1996, both Jordan and Prevatte were sentenced to death, but their sentences were both commuted to life in prison. While Jordan later escaped and is still on the run, Prevatte was eventually paroled, but killed again, and was sent back to death row.

kadrmas15 · 08-27-2006, 08:42 PM

Hey thanks for the info Kane! Anthony Prevatte, yes you are right. I looked him up at the North Carolina Department of Corrections. He was sentenced to death in 1974 but on appeal had his sentence commuted to life in prison on a technacality because of something the prosecuting attorney said in his closing argument. According to the North Carolina department of corrections he was actually paroled by Georgia when he first became eligible in 1981. Prevatte murdered his girlfriend in 1993 and was sentenced to death in North Carolina in 1995 where he remains to this day. William Jordan really needs to get captured. He has never been profiled on America's Most Wanted, I think he would possibly get captured if he was profiled on there. I also found an interesting fact. William Jordan escaped from a minimum security facility the Wayne Correctional Facility in Odem, Georgia in 1984. John Mooney escaped from that same prison in 1980. Two high profile escapes. I imagine after those two they started being careful about putting people that had been convicted of murder in such a facility. There might be another person that was originally sentenced to death that will be paroled this year possibly. Leslie Van Houten a member of the Manson family was originally sentenced to death however her sentence was commuted to life in 1972. She has a parole hearing on September 6th. This is thought to be her best shot at getting paroled yet. But keep in mind she has been turned down 14 or 15 times already.

Awsi Dooger · 08-27-2006, 09:36 PM

Why does it say I've already voted in this poll?

View Poll Results: Do you think Kenneth McDuff killed Angela Hammond?
Yes	21	36.21%
No	37	63.79%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

03-03-2006, 12:47 PM	#1
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	Who thinks Kenneth McDuff murdered Angela Hammond? Of course there has been a lot of discussion on here about Angela Hammond. I know that some of you believe serial killer Kenneth McDuff murdered her (although she's never been found dead or alive). I thought it would be interesting to take a pole and see how its divided. I would also like to know why you do or don't think McDuff is responsible. Admittedly I don't know much about McDuff except that he was a serial killer and has already been executed so I don't really have an opinion on this one.

03-03-2006, 11:36 PM	#7
Awsi Dooger Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 18, 2003 Location: Miami Posts: 1,537	Too easy. Propose one person vs. the rest of the world and I'll take the field almost every time, and love my chances. I can tell you point blank, as someone who works in stats and consults Las Vegas oddsmakers, if a casino were to put up bettable odds on this, Kenneth McDuff as the perpetrator wouldn't even register 5% likelihood. In fact, that's way too high. The wise guys would chew up an opportunity like that, betting every other possibility against one theoretical one. It's the reverse of the Richard McCoy as DB Cooper angle, where the guy who pulled off a near identical crime mere months later would be a huge favorite to also have been DB Cooper. I learned the hard way. I moved to Las Vegas more than 15 years ago and thought I was a hot shot handicapper who could isolate winners and ignore the mathematical aspects. For example, even if a Boris Becker was a huge favorite, like 1/5, I'd bet him anyway if I were sure he was going to win. The local sharpies respected me but said I'd eventually learn, that you had to take advantage of the long term mathematical advantage, even if it meant betting on teams or players you thought were going to lose. How right they were. Even if I thought McDuff was more likely than any other named suspect, in a 50/50 poll like this you have to pick no and you'll be right much more often than not. I'm always frustrated and amazed on these true crime shows that law enforcement and prosecutors seem to be clueless regarding basic probability. For example, they'll repeatedly guess of a suspect, "well, we think he's probably incarcerated or dead," even when that flies in the face of probability, based on his age or percentage of people who are in jail. I guarantee in the future there will be a much greater understanding of a need for crossover education, so law enforcement will be able to see a specific injury or piece of evidence and be able to closely estimate if it links to another crime or criminal, instead of scattergun guesswork. Henry Lee seems to have a great understanding of blood patterns, etc. and how they relate to what likely happened, but I don't see much of that elsewhere.
	Last edited by Awsi Dooger; 05-19-2007 at 03:16 AM.

03-03-2006, 01:02 PM	#2
Kane Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 07, 2001 Location: MA, United States Posts: 3,367	As of now, I don't see any evidence that he had any involvement in her disappearance. So, until proven otherwise, my answer is no. Of course, he was captured in Missouri in May 1992, after being on the run for only a few months. This was one year after Angela Hammond disappeared. But it's unknown whether he had ever been to Missouri before.

03-03-2006, 02:43 PM	#3
RightOnDude Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 12, 2005 Posts: 266	I think it's quite likely that he did. The crime bears similarities to previous rapes/murders he comitted. He was in the area near the same time. He often offered to give more evidence in order to save his butt for a few more months, but finally Texas grew sick of that and just offed his sorry self. What a pitiful excuse for human excrement.

03-03-2006, 06:00 PM	#4
jeeps Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Sep 28, 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 72	Hi crystaldawn, Have you ever seen a picture of McDuff? Is he creepy? Does he look scooters? Just wondering because that seems to be the lasting impression from that night...that and the fish jumping out of the lake mural on the window of his rusted truck. Certainly one of the more disturbing stories on UM. jeeps

03-03-2006, 06:06 PM	#5
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	Well I remember they did show a picture of him at the end of the Colleen Reed segment and I didn't really see a resemblance to the composite sketch in the Angela Hammond case. Here's a website with several pictures of him: http://www.garylavergne.com/mcduffmugs.htm

03-03-2006, 06:22 PM	#6
jeeps Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Sep 28, 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 72	Hmmm. We'll talk more and you can filll me in. I suppose it's useless banking on the grubby look since anyone - even murderers - can wash up. The saddest part is that there's no closure for the family. And you could see the agony in her boyfriend's face knowing he was close to saving her..yet couldn't. jeeps

03-11-2006, 09:20 AM	#11
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Okay, it is entirely possible that Kenneth McDuff murdered Angela Hammond. However there are certain things about it that dont add up. The biggest one being if McDuff in fact killed her I think he would have admitted to it. McDuff was already in prison and serving time on death row when he was asked if he had anything to do with her disapperance and he denied any involvement. I dont think he would have had any reason to lie and I think had he done it he would have admitted to it. It is quite clear that there were other crimes going on that were being done by the same person. I think the two other crimes that occured before Hammond were also done by the same person. Who it was remains to be known. Could have it been McDuff? Of course, he wasnt in prison at the time and he was known to have committed crimes similar to it. As for Bill Wacker whomever made that comment about him made it in very poor taste. When thinking about the Wacker case yes I did consider whether Bill himself was actually the one responsible. Some of the attacks occured when Bill wasnt home or wasnt right with his wife. However just as many occured when he was home. Also what motivation would Bill have to start doing that after over 45 years of marriage? It just wouldnt make sense. I dont know who was doing it, but I am pretty sure it was someone that knew the Wackers even if they didnt know him he sure knew them because those attacks were so personable. Also he seemed to know where stuff was and when the Wackers would be doing certain things.

08-27-2006, 06:30 PM	#12
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	I have now changed my opinion on this. I dont think it was McDuff that did it. The reason why I changed my opinion is that I saw a picture of him at the end of the Colleen Reed segment and he looked nothing like the man Angela Hammond described to Rob. I am pretty sure the same guy killed Hammond that killed those two other women in Missouri in the weeks and months before Hammond. I hope he is in prison for another crime but I wouldnt hold my breath. I am sure this guy has kept killing although he might have moved to another area because of the publicity. I am trying to think of who the guy might have been. You know who the guy kind of looked like? Randall Utterback. It isnt entirely out of the question. Utterback went through stages where his hair was long or buzz cut. He also sometimes had a beard but not all the time. He changed his apperance often it seemed. But when I look at the guy who was described by Hammond, when I think of it, I think of Randall Utterback. Although I dont think Utterback would have the balls to actually kill someone but you never know. An interesting theory none the less. As for McDuff, isnt he like the only guy ever to have been paroled while on death row?

08-27-2006, 08:42 PM	#14
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Hey thanks for the info Kane! Anthony Prevatte, yes you are right. I looked him up at the North Carolina Department of Corrections. He was sentenced to death in 1974 but on appeal had his sentence commuted to life in prison on a technacality because of something the prosecuting attorney said in his closing argument. According to the North Carolina department of corrections he was actually paroled by Georgia when he first became eligible in 1981. Prevatte murdered his girlfriend in 1993 and was sentenced to death in North Carolina in 1995 where he remains to this day. William Jordan really needs to get captured. He has never been profiled on America's Most Wanted, I think he would possibly get captured if he was profiled on there. I also found an interesting fact. William Jordan escaped from a minimum security facility the Wayne Correctional Facility in Odem, Georgia in 1984. John Mooney escaped from that same prison in 1980. Two high profile escapes. I imagine after those two they started being careful about putting people that had been convicted of murder in such a facility. There might be another person that was originally sentenced to death that will be paroled this year possibly. Leslie Van Houten a member of the Manson family was originally sentenced to death however her sentence was commuted to life in 1972. She has a parole hearing on September 6th. This is thought to be her best shot at getting paroled yet. But keep in mind she has been turned down 14 or 15 times already.

08-27-2006, 09:36 PM	#15
Awsi Dooger Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 18, 2003 Location: Miami Posts: 1,537	Why does it say I've already voted in this poll?