TNN Sucks!!!! - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

horselover47 · 06-22-2001, 06:18 PM

OK, WKRP fans, TNN has finally made the "editing blunder" of the decade! We all know that they have been butchering these episodes' music, but today's last episode "The Americanization Of Ivan" - I'm so mad! At the very end of the show, the line that Ivan says to Les is perfect for the situation....but, instead of Ivan saying "Hold me closer, tiny dancer." Some moron has dubbed over it with "Hold my order, terrible dresser." OMG, what were these people at TNN thinking???? This has just really done it for me!

jaime_weinman · 06-22-2001, 06:42 PM

Sigh. I seem to have to explain this over and over, but TNN did not make that change. TNN did not make *any* of the music-related changes. TNN has *no power* to make music changes.

What happens is that the *distributor*, the people who *own* the show, changed the music, and that's the version that TNN got. The same music changes are being heard in WKRP broadcasts all over the world. TNN sucks in many ways, but they can't be blamed for this. Got it?

For more information, please see:
http://members.attcanada.ca/~jacjud/wkrpmusic.html

APPLEI · 06-22-2001, 09:59 PM

TNN SUCKS FOR ANOTHER REASON.
TNN SUCKS FOR BUTCHERING EPISODES OF WKRP TOO ADD MORE COMMERCIALS.

horselover47 · 06-22-2001, 11:39 PM

From the days when it was on WGN and our local CBS affiliate in the mid-80's, no music was changed. Even when the show aired on VH-1 and Nick-at-Nite for a short period of time, the music was - for the most part - still intact. If there was a copyright issue, don't you think this would have been addressed from the very beginning of the syndication of WKRP in the 80's instead of waiting until 2001?

JMHO & .02

Kathy

dawsongirl · 06-23-2001, 12:17 AM

Anyone else ever notice this? They will be showing the guest stars at the end of the show, and all of a sudden they will show somebody that you never saw in the entire episode? They cut that person's scene, but don't cut them from the credits? Duh.

And this isn't the only show. Yesterday's episode of A-12 on TV Land had something similar. Stupid editors (or should I say butchers?)

jaime_weinman · 06-23-2001, 12:45 AM

From the days when it was on WGN and our local CBS affiliate in the mid-80's, no music was changed.

That was a different syndication package. The music licenses have to be renewed every five years or so. (And even that syndication package changed some music, though not as much as the current one.)

Even when the show aired on VH-1 and Nick-at-Nite for a short period of time, the music was - for the most part - still intact.

VH-1 had the old syndication package, but Nick at Nite? No. The music on TNN is exactly the same in every case as on Nick at Nite. (Yes, Nick at Nite had the "terrible dresser" bit, as do networks showing WKRP in Canada, England and elsewhere).

If there was a copyright issue, don't you think this would have been addressed from the very beginning of the syndication of WKRP in the 80's instead of waiting until 2001?

Music licenses expire and have to be renewed. No show licenses music forever. What happened was that the company that owned WKRP decided to change the music instead of paying again to renew the music licenses. The music changes on TNN were made in the late '90s, around 1996 or 1997.

Again, it has nothing to do with TNN. Broadcasters do not have the power to change the music. The distributors do. The page I linked to in my other post explains this in more detail.

[This message has been edited by jaime_weinman (edited 06-23-2001).]

horselover47 · 06-24-2001, 12:02 PM

When was WKRP on TNN in '96 and/or '97? Jaime, Your explanation is well worded, but I don't buy it....Sorry.....

Kathy

jaime_weinman · 06-24-2001, 04:04 PM

When was WKRP on TNN in '96 and/or '97?

It wasn't. I said the music changes were made in '96 or '97. The distributor(then MTM, now Fox) changed the music, and that is the version they send out. They sent out that version to Nick at Nite, to the Comedy Network in Canada, to Europe, and to TNN. They all get the same tapes of WKRP because they order it from the same distributor. And it's the distributor you should be complaining to. (In this case, 20th-Century Fox.)

Jaime, Your explanation is well worded, but I don't buy it....

Well, then, how do you explain the fact that the music changes are the same everywhere? The "terrible dresser" bit was on Nick at Nite, and it's on the Comedy Network in Canada, and it was in New Zealand, and even South Africa! How can TNN be responsible for a change that is occurring everywhere?

If you don't believe me, pick up the set of WKRP videotapes released in 1998. Compare the music to the music heard in those episodes on TNN. In every case, it's exactly the same. The music had already been changed when TNN got the WKRP series.

Also, when asked why some of the music had been changed in the '80s syndication run (not nearly as much as has been changed now, of course), a WKRP writer, Steve Marshall, said that the show only licensed songs for about five years at a time, and when it came time to renew the licenses, the distributor decided to replace some songs instead of paying for them. (This is from a WKRP seminar at the Museum of Television and Radio.) All that happened in the '90s is that songs had gotten even more expensive and the distributor was too cheap to pay for them.

[This message has been edited by jaime_weinman (edited 06-24-2001).]

[This message has been edited by jaime_weinman (edited 06-24-2001).]

horselover47 · 06-24-2001, 07:12 PM

Actually, I do remember the episodes on VH-1 and Nick-at-Nite and this episode in particular that I spoke of in the original post....AND, I very distinctly remember hearing Elton John's "Tiny Dancer" and the character of Ivan saying to Les, "hold me closer, tiny dancer." Now, I have all the episodes on videotape which I started taping in 1986. The bulk of the episodes that I have were taped between 1986 and 1989. I have picked up episodes here and there since then. However, over the last decade and a half, I have watched these episodes hundreds of times and practically have dialogue memorized for each episode. With that said, IF this particular episode had been changed while it was on Nick-at-Nite, believe me, I would have remembered it! I have made it a point to watch WKRP every time it's been shown on whatever network (cable or otherwise) because I am such a big fan of the show. These severly butchered episodes that TNN have been airing hurts my heart. I just thank goodness that I have my videotapes to watch! Also, Jaime, I do not live in Canada, New Zealand or South Africa, so I cannot verify what you are claiming.

Although it's true that these distribution companies have hacked away at our beloved WKRP almost to extinction, the basic love of the show will always remain in me. I only wish I had a VCR (or Betamax) when the shows were originally broadcast by CBS!!!

Kathy

[This message has been edited by horselover47 (edited 06-24-2001).]

jaime_weinman · 06-24-2001, 07:24 PM

With that said, IF this particular episode had been changed while it was on Nick-at-Nite, believe me, I would have remembered it!

Sorry, but it was changed to "terrible dresser" on Nick at Nite. For one thing, I have seen a tape of the episode from Nick at Nite. And when Nick at Nite aired WKRP in 1999, there were many complaints on the net about the change. Do a usenet search (groups.google.com) for WKRP and "terrible dresser" if you don't believe me.

Also, TNN is owned by the same company as Nick at Nite (Viacom). They are in fact using the same tapes of WKRP (and Taxi, and Newhart) that Nick at Nite used to show. For example, both TNN and Nick at Nite cut the "sex change" scene from "Les On a Ledge."

As for VH1, as I said before, they were showing the older syndication package, distributed by Jim Victory. Victory lost the distribution rights in the mid-'90s, but his package was still shown by some stations up until a couple of years ago.

Also, Jaime, I do not live in Canada, New Zealand or South Africa, so I cannot verify what you are claiming.

Well, I live in Canada, and the Comedy Network has been showing that episode with "terrible dresser" for the last two years. And I have friends in New Zealand and South Africa who told me that they watched this episode on local broadcasts and heard..."hold my order, terrible dresser."

The reason I'm being so insistent about this is that it's important to know who to complain to about the changes. TNN can't do anything about the music, so it's useless to complain to them. You should write to Fox instead, asking them to restore the music and release the series on video or DVD. That might do some good. Here's the address to write to:

20th Century Fox
ATTN: TV/Videos
10201 W Pico Blvd
Century City, Ca 90067

They don't have an email address. Let Fox know you're PO'd about the music changes, and encourage others to write, and maybe something will be done about it.

[This message has been edited by jaime_weinman (edited 06-24-2001).]

horselover47 · 06-25-2001, 10:43 AM

Jaime, where do you get all your information, anyway?

Kathy

jaime_weinman · 06-25-2001, 02:47 PM

Jaime, where do you get all your information, anyway?

All over the place, really...when I decided to put together a WKRP page, I just spent a whole weekend searching for every possible news article, internet post, webpage, interview, press release, anything that even mentioned WKRP. Then it was a case of putting together pieces of information, like a jigsaw puzzle. Also, where music issues were concerned, I got a few explanatory e-mails from people who were running WKRP with the changed music (like The Comedy Network in Canada, and PrimeTV in New Zealand).

Captain Kaitlyn · 08-11-2001, 12:24 PM

....

------------------
Hey, y'all! If u r one of my cool dude frieds (Kelly, Gia, Myra, and Angie), then I have 2 things 2 say 2 u:
* I laughed u should 2 lol
* Bedilia's bitch, let's beat her with the uglier stick
LOL! Let's do the Mini HaHa dance! That was from u Myra!
*~Kaitlyn~*

06-22-2001, 06:18 PM	#1
horselover47 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 02, 2001 Location: Tennessee USA Posts: 180	TNN Sucks!!!! OK, WKRP fans, TNN has finally made the "editing blunder" of the decade! We all know that they have been butchering these episodes' music, but today's last episode "The Americanization Of Ivan" - I'm so mad! At the very end of the show, the line that Ivan says to Les is perfect for the situation....but, instead of Ivan saying "Hold me closer, tiny dancer." Some moron has dubbed over it with "Hold my order, terrible dresser." OMG, what were these people at TNN thinking???? This has just really done it for me!

06-22-2001, 06:42 PM	#2
jaime_weinman Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 22, 2000 Posts: 122	Sigh. I seem to have to explain this over and over, but TNN did not make that change. TNN did not make any of the music-related changes. TNN has no power to make music changes. What happens is that the distributor, the people who own the show, changed the music, and that's the version that TNN got. The same music changes are being heard in WKRP broadcasts all over the world. TNN sucks in many ways, but they can't be blamed for this. Got it? For more information, please see: http://members.attcanada.ca/~jacjud/wkrpmusic.html

06-22-2001, 09:59 PM	#3
APPLEI Member Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 16, 2000 Location: JACKSON MI. 49203 Posts: 810	TNN SUCKS FOR ANOTHER REASON. TNN SUCKS FOR BUTCHERING EPISODES OF WKRP TOO ADD MORE COMMERCIALS.

06-22-2001, 11:39 PM	#4
horselover47 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 02, 2001 Location: Tennessee USA Posts: 180	From the days when it was on WGN and our local CBS affiliate in the mid-80's, no music was changed. Even when the show aired on VH-1 and Nick-at-Nite for a short period of time, the music was - for the most part - still intact. If there was a copyright issue, don't you think this would have been addressed from the very beginning of the syndication of WKRP in the 80's instead of waiting until 2001? JMHO & .02 Kathy

06-23-2001, 12:17 AM	#5
dawsongirl Member Forum Icon Join Date: Jan 04, 2001 Posts: 53,128	Anyone else ever notice this? They will be showing the guest stars at the end of the show, and all of a sudden they will show somebody that you never saw in the entire episode? They cut that person's scene, but don't cut them from the credits? Duh. And this isn't the only show. Yesterday's episode of A-12 on TV Land had something similar. Stupid editors (or should I say butchers?)

06-23-2001, 12:45 AM	#6
jaime_weinman Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 22, 2000 Posts: 122	From the days when it was on WGN and our local CBS affiliate in the mid-80's, no music was changed. That was a different syndication package. The music licenses have to be renewed every five years or so. (And even that syndication package changed some music, though not as much as the current one.) Even when the show aired on VH-1 and Nick-at-Nite for a short period of time, the music was - for the most part - still intact. VH-1 had the old syndication package, but Nick at Nite? No. The music on TNN is exactly the same in every case as on Nick at Nite. (Yes, Nick at Nite had the "terrible dresser" bit, as do networks showing WKRP in Canada, England and elsewhere). If there was a copyright issue, don't you think this would have been addressed from the very beginning of the syndication of WKRP in the 80's instead of waiting until 2001? Music licenses expire and have to be renewed. No show licenses music forever. What happened was that the company that owned WKRP decided to change the music instead of paying again to renew the music licenses. The music changes on TNN were made in the late '90s, around 1996 or 1997. Again, it has nothing to do with TNN. Broadcasters do not have the power to change the music. The distributors do. The page I linked to in my other post explains this in more detail. [This message has been edited by jaime_weinman (edited 06-23-2001).]

06-24-2001, 12:02 PM	#7
horselover47 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 02, 2001 Location: Tennessee USA Posts: 180	When was WKRP on TNN in '96 and/or '97? Jaime, Your explanation is well worded, but I don't buy it....Sorry..... Kathy

06-24-2001, 04:04 PM	#8
jaime_weinman Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 22, 2000 Posts: 122	When was WKRP on TNN in '96 and/or '97? It wasn't. I said the music changes were made in '96 or '97. The distributor(then MTM, now Fox) changed the music, and that is the version they send out. They sent out that version to Nick at Nite, to the Comedy Network in Canada, to Europe, and to TNN. They all get the same tapes of WKRP because they order it from the same distributor. And it's the distributor you should be complaining to. (In this case, 20th-Century Fox.) Jaime, Your explanation is well worded, but I don't buy it.... Well, then, how do you explain the fact that the music changes are the same everywhere? The "terrible dresser" bit was on Nick at Nite, and it's on the Comedy Network in Canada, and it was in New Zealand, and even South Africa! How can TNN be responsible for a change that is occurring everywhere? If you don't believe me, pick up the set of WKRP videotapes released in 1998. Compare the music to the music heard in those episodes on TNN. In every case, it's exactly the same. The music had already been changed when TNN got the WKRP series. Also, when asked why some of the music had been changed in the '80s syndication run (not nearly as much as has been changed now, of course), a WKRP writer, Steve Marshall, said that the show only licensed songs for about five years at a time, and when it came time to renew the licenses, the distributor decided to replace some songs instead of paying for them. (This is from a WKRP seminar at the Museum of Television and Radio.) All that happened in the '90s is that songs had gotten even more expensive and the distributor was too cheap to pay for them. [This message has been edited by jaime_weinman (edited 06-24-2001).] [This message has been edited by jaime_weinman (edited 06-24-2001).]

06-24-2001, 07:12 PM	#9
horselover47 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 02, 2001 Location: Tennessee USA Posts: 180	Actually, I do remember the episodes on VH-1 and Nick-at-Nite and this episode in particular that I spoke of in the original post....AND, I very distinctly remember hearing Elton John's "Tiny Dancer" and the character of Ivan saying to Les, "hold me closer, tiny dancer." Now, I have all the episodes on videotape which I started taping in 1986. The bulk of the episodes that I have were taped between 1986 and 1989. I have picked up episodes here and there since then. However, over the last decade and a half, I have watched these episodes hundreds of times and practically have dialogue memorized for each episode. With that said, IF this particular episode had been changed while it was on Nick-at-Nite, believe me, I would have remembered it! I have made it a point to watch WKRP every time it's been shown on whatever network (cable or otherwise) because I am such a big fan of the show. These severly butchered episodes that TNN have been airing hurts my heart. I just thank goodness that I have my videotapes to watch! Also, Jaime, I do not live in Canada, New Zealand or South Africa, so I cannot verify what you are claiming. Although it's true that these distribution companies have hacked away at our beloved WKRP almost to extinction, the basic love of the show will always remain in me. I only wish I had a VCR (or Betamax) when the shows were originally broadcast by CBS!!! Kathy [This message has been edited by horselover47 (edited 06-24-2001).]

06-24-2001, 07:24 PM	#10
jaime_weinman Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 22, 2000 Posts: 122	With that said, IF this particular episode had been changed while it was on Nick-at-Nite, believe me, I would have remembered it! Sorry, but it was changed to "terrible dresser" on Nick at Nite. For one thing, I have seen a tape of the episode from Nick at Nite. And when Nick at Nite aired WKRP in 1999, there were many complaints on the net about the change. Do a usenet search (groups.google.com) for WKRP and "terrible dresser" if you don't believe me. Also, TNN is owned by the same company as Nick at Nite (Viacom). They are in fact using the same tapes of WKRP (and Taxi, and Newhart) that Nick at Nite used to show. For example, both TNN and Nick at Nite cut the "sex change" scene from "Les On a Ledge." As for VH1, as I said before, they were showing the older syndication package, distributed by Jim Victory. Victory lost the distribution rights in the mid-'90s, but his package was still shown by some stations up until a couple of years ago. Also, Jaime, I do not live in Canada, New Zealand or South Africa, so I cannot verify what you are claiming. Well, I live in Canada, and the Comedy Network has been showing that episode with "terrible dresser" for the last two years. And I have friends in New Zealand and South Africa who told me that they watched this episode on local broadcasts and heard..."hold my order, terrible dresser." The reason I'm being so insistent about this is that it's important to know who to complain to about the changes. TNN can't do anything about the music, so it's useless to complain to them. You should write to Fox instead, asking them to restore the music and release the series on video or DVD. That might do some good. Here's the address to write to: 20th Century Fox ATTN: TV/Videos 10201 W Pico Blvd Century City, Ca 90067 They don't have an email address. Let Fox know you're PO'd about the music changes, and encourage others to write, and maybe something will be done about it. [This message has been edited by jaime_weinman (edited 06-24-2001).]

06-25-2001, 10:43 AM	#11
horselover47 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 02, 2001 Location: Tennessee USA Posts: 180	Jaime, where do you get all your information, anyway? Kathy

06-25-2001, 02:47 PM	#12
jaime_weinman Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 22, 2000 Posts: 122	Jaime, where do you get all your information, anyway? All over the place, really...when I decided to put together a WKRP page, I just spent a whole weekend searching for every possible news article, internet post, webpage, interview, press release, anything that even mentioned WKRP. Then it was a case of putting together pieces of information, like a jigsaw puzzle. Also, where music issues were concerned, I got a few explanatory e-mails from people who were running WKRP with the changed music (like The Comedy Network in Canada, and PrimeTV in New Zealand).

08-11-2001, 12:24 PM	#13
Captain Kaitlyn Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Aug 10, 2001 Location: New York: Where the Yanks are...... Posts: 54	.... ------------------ Hey, y'all! If u r one of my cool dude frieds (Kelly, Gia, Myra, and Angie), then I have 2 things 2 say 2 u: * I laughed u should 2 lol * Bedilia's bitch, let's beat her with the uglier stick LOL! Let's do the Mini HaHa dance! That was from u Myra! ~Kaitlyn~