Cindy James - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Mr.Clairvoyant · 12-08-2005, 03:30 PM

Does any one remember the story where the lady was found dead in the yard of an abandoned house? They said that hew autopsy report showed that she was OD on drugs... This case was on the Bizarre Murder set and I watched it last night. .It really was a strange one.. personally I think that she had multiple personalities and that she really was stalking and attacking herself.. this was a rather strange case! But in this rare case

crystaldawn · 12-08-2005, 04:08 PM

I am very familiar with the case and have read both books on it. I would highly recommend "The Deaths of Cindy James" by Neal Hall (he was the reporter interviewed in the segment. Personally I don't think Cindy could have done all those things to herself especially kill herself in that manner but admittedly there are a lot of questions in that case that are no answers to. You can find that book on the web for next to nothing.

Mr.Clairvoyant · 12-08-2005, 04:19 PM

Crys

I feel what you are saying but again don't you think that it is possible that she was harassing herself.. There was never a suspect, never a fingerprint and most of the times that she was attacked it was always either when someone was coming over or already at house. In my opinion I believe that she was solely responsible until other evidence proves differently then I will reserve judgment

dynoguy88 · 12-08-2005, 04:28 PM

Here is an old link from about 4 months ago where we discussed this case. You might be interested in reading others opinions.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...d.php?t=147064

Being very knowledgable about this case, having read both boths and seeing the UM segment countless times I can say with absolute certainty that I am torn on how she died. There were many times where she didn't act like a normal victim would act but there were other instances where it seemed like she couldn't be responsible. I truly think this will forever be an unsolved mystery....if you'll pardon the expression.

crystaldawn · 12-08-2005, 04:30 PM

Mr. Clairvoyant, I understand what you're saying. I do think it is suspicious that no one was ever captured but the book goes into more detail about it. There are quite a few people who claim to be around when she received some of the phone calls. Also her when the "harassment" started she had recently become separated from her husband who by the books accounts seemed to be a psycho. I'm actually suprised UM didn't bring him up. It just seems like such a bizarre thing to do to yourself, strangle yourself by tying nylon's tightly around your neck and what about the knife that was put through her hand all the way into the carpet. I'm not saying she couldn't have done that to herself but man she would have to be seriously deranged. I think the thing that most made me think that she wasn't responsible for everything done to her was how she died. To have been injected with massive amounts of those drugs but they found no needles anywhere near her body and she wouldn't have had much time to "hog tie" herself before the drugs kicked in. (Btw I think her ex-husband was a doctor and would have access to drugs as I also understand Cindy was a nurse and would have probably had the same access). I get so aggravated when Neal Hall claims that a "knot specialist" came in and did it in minimal time. As far as I know Cindy James was not a knot specialist. In fact I would venture to say that the majority of us don't know how to hog tie ourselves. So do you think she was the one who eventually ended her own life?

There's no question that Cindy James suffered from severe mental problems the question is did she do this to herself as a result from her mental problems or did the fact that someone else was stalking her result into her developing mental problems. I do enjoy discussing this case with you as its one of more fascinating ones.

crystaldawn · 12-08-2005, 04:36 PM

Dynoguy - Since you have read the books what do you think about Cindy's ex? Do you think he could have responsible for some of the stalking?

dynoguy88 · 12-08-2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystaldawn

Dynoguy - Since you have read the books what do you think about Cindy's ex? Do you think he could have responsible for some of the stalking?

Roy Makepeace was an odd fellow but not a killer in my mind. Like I said in the other link, he never once struck me as being behind Cindy's terror. While the timing of Cindy and Roy's seperation may seem suspicious to some (happening just 3 months before the threatening phone calls began) I just don't see it being relevent since they were on good terms for years and didn't actually get divorced until years later. It wasn't until the police pretty much forced Cindy to point the finger at him that she really started to feel anger towards him. And one of her attacks happened while he was out of the country.

I can see why Cindy's family wasn't exactly thrilled with her marrying him, but he wasn't behind her torture. An odd man, yes. A killer, no.

Mr.Clairvoyant · 12-08-2005, 05:58 PM

Crystaldawn you are right this is a rather interesting case, and am glad we can discuss it further with out getting upset with one another because we have a difference in opinion.. now back to Cindy.. Ok Crys you make good points on the tying of the nylons and the whole hog tie situation being difficult I must say, but it would not be impossible.. and who is to say how far gone she was after all she was committed to hospital for a period 6 weeks I believe maybe longer. So that had to mean that she was suffering from some type of mental illness. and another point.. what about when they found her car with the groceries and the wrap gift in the back and the credit cards were scattered under the car! and the blood on the car door,but yet when they found her she had so visible signs of trauma no stab wounds cuts or bruises.. so where did the blood come from and if some one was stalking and attacking her why would leave her credit cards it take her away from her house it is inconsistent with the previous methods that she was attacked, most of the time she was attacked at home conveniently so that someone close to her can find her.. just odd that she was found in the middle of a abandon yard and no one saw anybody put her there or never mind the fact it was in the middle of no where!! and just the same if her ex husband had access to drugs who is to say she didn't after all I am sure she could have gotten her hands on some at that clinic she was posted up at and she could have easily practice how too before committing the actual act.. I don't believe she intended to kill herself that much I believe was an accident!

crystaldawn · 12-08-2005, 07:01 PM

You know the strange thing about this case is a lot of the clues seem to point to different things. Some of the times she was found I agree it was out in the open where if she were doing this to crave attention she would have certainly gotten her wish while there were other times (like the incident when she was on the floor at her house with the knife stuck through her hand) where she didn't seem to know that anyone would have came over to find her. (Remember her friend just happened by to visit.) Also I have no reason to think that her friend and friends husband would lie and the fire that was started in her house he saw a man running down the road. But I have to agree with Neal Hall in if she was so terrified of a stalker why would she be walking her dog in the middle of the night. All these phone calls she is reported to have gotten I've wondered if the police ever tried to trace them. Or at least try to prove the phone calls were actually made. The book recounts numerous times when the police or friends were in her house when she received phone calls. I just can't see how she could have manufactured those when they were there to verify it. Do you think its possible that some of the incidents were stalking and some of were manufactured by Cindy to garner attention? Its a mind boggling case and there are a lot of theories but unfortunately we'll never truly know what happened.

Also its been a while since I've read the book (I've loaned them both out never to be returned) so correct me or verify this Dynoguy but didn't they mention that Cindy was dating one of the police assigned to her case while the harassment was going on. Any chance he could have been part of the alleged stalking and thus explain why the police never found anything? Also didn't they incinuate that during one of the attacks that UM never showed (I believe she was found on or in her car) that there was some sort of a sexual assault? Like I said these are just vague memories so feel free to elaborate.

Toadley · 12-08-2005, 07:31 PM

What kind of dog was it? She might have felt safe enough if she was walking a big dog, and maybe she just got that sudden determination that her stalker wasn't going to change her life. I have no idea really but from what I have read I don't think she did all those things herself.

Mr.Clairvoyant · 12-08-2005, 09:38 PM

The incident where the knife was stuck in her hand she most certainly was expecting someone to find her.. Her Private Investigator. In fact that entire incident was rather strange there was no forced entry in the house ( remember the PI had to burst the door down) so how did the assailant get into her locked house, and then she claimed that she was hit on the side of the head with a piece of wood ok where did the wood come from and further more where did it go? I guess the attacker took it back with him when he left.. Also what attacker you know would sedate you before he stabs your hand with a knife .. sounds like a front too me!!! She stated that she remember a needle going into the side of her arm, so what was the purpose of the attacking hitting her on the side of the head with a piece of wood if he was going to sedate her?

hayes · 12-09-2005, 03:08 AM

one of my favorite all time cases

I'm 60% sure she did it all to herself, I like the element of mystery that will never be solved that another person MAY or may not have been involved

Thinman · 12-09-2005, 10:49 AM

Is it possible that maybe she had a friend who was as emotionally damaged as she was that helped her with these "attacks"? It's doubtful, but there is nothing exactly normal about this case.

Until there is evidence otherwise, I will continue to believe that she was behind the attacks all along. I just can't accept the fact that she was brutally attacked five times and there is not one bit of physical evidence that another party was involved. Even Jeffrey MacDonald supposedly has a long blonde hair and some candle wax that he hinges the hopes of his freedom on. I realize that this was 1982-89 and forensic science was not what it is today, but it was good enough to detect the presence of a foreign attacker. I truly feel bad for Cindy. She was a beautiful lady whose life was wasted. I just don't believe we will ever know all there is to know about her.

dynoguy88 · 12-09-2005, 05:12 PM

The phone calls were almost always too short to trace. Remember, this was the 1980's - before the magic of caller ID. The several times the calls were long enough to trace, an exact location could never be found, just the district/area of Vancouver which didn't help. A couple of the threatening phone calls were recorded and played at her inquest. Jurrors had nightmares after listening to them. But as usual, parties were split on whether that was really some psycho man or Cindy disguising her voice on the tape.

Of course, when the phone calls weren't happening, her phone lines were usually cut. That's why she always had a two way radio at her house as well as a panick device (that alerted the police) in her purse. The 2nd attack where the knife was pinned through her hand, she wasn't expecting anyone that evening. Her private investigator, Ozzie Kaban, said he heard strange noises over the two way radio he had given her. That's when he went to her house, broke in and found her on the floor. I have no idea how an attacker could have entered her home for this if she was all locked up. This was the only attack that took place inside her home.

And in answer to your question, crystaldawn, yes, Cindy was dating a police office towards the beginning of her harrasment. His name was Pat McBride. He moved in with Cindy and within a short time, began a romantic relationship with her. He eventually asked her to marry him but she said "no," because she wasn't ready for that kind of commitment. I believe he only lived with Cindy for several months. Within a year or so, he married some other woman and left Cindy's case to another officer.

Toadley · 12-09-2005, 08:35 PM

Is it possible the attacker had somehow gotten a key? It could easily have been someone she knew. It's also possible that there were more than one person involved in her harassment. I'm not saying she was innocent of it all, I just believe there is a good possibility that she was. Do the books tend to stick to the same story or do they seem to be slanted by the opinions of the authors in different ways? Also am I remembering this wrong or in the UM show did they say she said she knew who it was, or just that she knew more than she was telling and couldn't explain at that time?

12-08-2005, 03:30 PM	#1
Mr.Clairvoyant Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 30, 2005 Posts: 139	Cindy James Does any one remember the story where the lady was found dead in the yard of an abandoned house? They said that hew autopsy report showed that she was OD on drugs... This case was on the Bizarre Murder set and I watched it last night. .It really was a strange one.. personally I think that she had multiple personalities and that she really was stalking and attacking herself.. this was a rather strange case! But in this rare case

12-08-2005, 04:28 PM	#4
dynoguy88 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 01, 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 3,675	reply Here is an old link from about 4 months ago where we discussed this case. You might be interested in reading others opinions. http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...d.php?t=147064 Being very knowledgable about this case, having read both boths and seeing the UM segment countless times I can say with absolute certainty that I am torn on how she died. There were many times where she didn't act like a normal victim would act but there were other instances where it seemed like she couldn't be responsible. I truly think this will forever be an unsolved mystery....if you'll pardon the expression.

12-09-2005, 05:12 PM	#14
dynoguy88 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 01, 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 3,675	reply The phone calls were almost always too short to trace. Remember, this was the 1980's - before the magic of caller ID. The several times the calls were long enough to trace, an exact location could never be found, just the district/area of Vancouver which didn't help. A couple of the threatening phone calls were recorded and played at her inquest. Jurrors had nightmares after listening to them. But as usual, parties were split on whether that was really some psycho man or Cindy disguising her voice on the tape. Of course, when the phone calls weren't happening, her phone lines were usually cut. That's why she always had a two way radio at her house as well as a panick device (that alerted the police) in her purse. The 2nd attack where the knife was pinned through her hand, she wasn't expecting anyone that evening. Her private investigator, Ozzie Kaban, said he heard strange noises over the two way radio he had given her. That's when he went to her house, broke in and found her on the floor. I have no idea how an attacker could have entered her home for this if she was all locked up. This was the only attack that took place inside her home. And in answer to your question, crystaldawn, yes, Cindy was dating a police office towards the beginning of her harrasment. His name was Pat McBride. He moved in with Cindy and within a short time, began a romantic relationship with her. He eventually asked her to marry him but she said "no," because she wasn't ready for that kind of commitment. I believe he only lived with Cindy for several months. Within a year or so, he married some other woman and left Cindy's case to another officer.

12-08-2005, 04:08 PM	#2
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	I am very familiar with the case and have read both books on it. I would highly recommend "The Deaths of Cindy James" by Neal Hall (he was the reporter interviewed in the segment. Personally I don't think Cindy could have done all those things to herself especially kill herself in that manner but admittedly there are a lot of questions in that case that are no answers to. You can find that book on the web for next to nothing.

12-08-2005, 04:19 PM	#3
Mr.Clairvoyant Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 30, 2005 Posts: 139	Crys I feel what you are saying but again don't you think that it is possible that she was harassing herself.. There was never a suspect, never a fingerprint and most of the times that she was attacked it was always either when someone was coming over or already at house. In my opinion I believe that she was solely responsible until other evidence proves differently then I will reserve judgment

12-08-2005, 04:30 PM	#5
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	Mr. Clairvoyant, I understand what you're saying. I do think it is suspicious that no one was ever captured but the book goes into more detail about it. There are quite a few people who claim to be around when she received some of the phone calls. Also her when the "harassment" started she had recently become separated from her husband who by the books accounts seemed to be a psycho. I'm actually suprised UM didn't bring him up. It just seems like such a bizarre thing to do to yourself, strangle yourself by tying nylon's tightly around your neck and what about the knife that was put through her hand all the way into the carpet. I'm not saying she couldn't have done that to herself but man she would have to be seriously deranged. I think the thing that most made me think that she wasn't responsible for everything done to her was how she died. To have been injected with massive amounts of those drugs but they found no needles anywhere near her body and she wouldn't have had much time to "hog tie" herself before the drugs kicked in. (Btw I think her ex-husband was a doctor and would have access to drugs as I also understand Cindy was a nurse and would have probably had the same access). I get so aggravated when Neal Hall claims that a "knot specialist" came in and did it in minimal time. As far as I know Cindy James was not a knot specialist. In fact I would venture to say that the majority of us don't know how to hog tie ourselves. So do you think she was the one who eventually ended her own life? There's no question that Cindy James suffered from severe mental problems the question is did she do this to herself as a result from her mental problems or did the fact that someone else was stalking her result into her developing mental problems. I do enjoy discussing this case with you as its one of more fascinating ones.

12-08-2005, 04:36 PM	#6
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	Dynoguy - Since you have read the books what do you think about Cindy's ex? Do you think he could have responsible for some of the stalking?

12-08-2005, 05:58 PM	#8
Mr.Clairvoyant Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 30, 2005 Posts: 139	Crystaldawn you are right this is a rather interesting case, and am glad we can discuss it further with out getting upset with one another because we have a difference in opinion.. now back to Cindy.. Ok Crys you make good points on the tying of the nylons and the whole hog tie situation being difficult I must say, but it would not be impossible.. and who is to say how far gone she was after all she was committed to hospital for a period 6 weeks I believe maybe longer. So that had to mean that she was suffering from some type of mental illness. and another point.. what about when they found her car with the groceries and the wrap gift in the back and the credit cards were scattered under the car! and the blood on the car door,but yet when they found her she had so visible signs of trauma no stab wounds cuts or bruises.. so where did the blood come from and if some one was stalking and attacking her why would leave her credit cards it take her away from her house it is inconsistent with the previous methods that she was attacked, most of the time she was attacked at home conveniently so that someone close to her can find her.. just odd that she was found in the middle of a abandon yard and no one saw anybody put her there or never mind the fact it was in the middle of no where!! and just the same if her ex husband had access to drugs who is to say she didn't after all I am sure she could have gotten her hands on some at that clinic she was posted up at and she could have easily practice how too before committing the actual act.. I don't believe she intended to kill herself that much I believe was an accident!

12-08-2005, 07:01 PM	#9
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	You know the strange thing about this case is a lot of the clues seem to point to different things. Some of the times she was found I agree it was out in the open where if she were doing this to crave attention she would have certainly gotten her wish while there were other times (like the incident when she was on the floor at her house with the knife stuck through her hand) where she didn't seem to know that anyone would have came over to find her. (Remember her friend just happened by to visit.) Also I have no reason to think that her friend and friends husband would lie and the fire that was started in her house he saw a man running down the road. But I have to agree with Neal Hall in if she was so terrified of a stalker why would she be walking her dog in the middle of the night. All these phone calls she is reported to have gotten I've wondered if the police ever tried to trace them. Or at least try to prove the phone calls were actually made. The book recounts numerous times when the police or friends were in her house when she received phone calls. I just can't see how she could have manufactured those when they were there to verify it. Do you think its possible that some of the incidents were stalking and some of were manufactured by Cindy to garner attention? Its a mind boggling case and there are a lot of theories but unfortunately we'll never truly know what happened. Also its been a while since I've read the book (I've loaned them both out never to be returned) so correct me or verify this Dynoguy but didn't they mention that Cindy was dating one of the police assigned to her case while the harassment was going on. Any chance he could have been part of the alleged stalking and thus explain why the police never found anything? Also didn't they incinuate that during one of the attacks that UM never showed (I believe she was found on or in her car) that there was some sort of a sexual assault? Like I said these are just vague memories so feel free to elaborate.

12-08-2005, 07:31 PM	#10
Toadley Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 08, 2005 Posts: 9	What kind of dog was it? She might have felt safe enough if she was walking a big dog, and maybe she just got that sudden determination that her stalker wasn't going to change her life. I have no idea really but from what I have read I don't think she did all those things herself.

12-08-2005, 09:38 PM	#11
Mr.Clairvoyant Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 30, 2005 Posts: 139	The incident where the knife was stuck in her hand she most certainly was expecting someone to find her.. Her Private Investigator. In fact that entire incident was rather strange there was no forced entry in the house ( remember the PI had to burst the door down) so how did the assailant get into her locked house, and then she claimed that she was hit on the side of the head with a piece of wood ok where did the wood come from and further more where did it go? I guess the attacker took it back with him when he left.. Also what attacker you know would sedate you before he stabs your hand with a knife .. sounds like a front too me!!! She stated that she remember a needle going into the side of her arm, so what was the purpose of the attacking hitting her on the side of the head with a piece of wood if he was going to sedate her?

12-09-2005, 03:08 AM	#12
hayes D R e A M Occasional Poster Join Date: May 31, 2005 Posts: 59	one of my favorite all time cases I'm 60% sure she did it all to herself, I like the element of mystery that will never be solved that another person MAY or may not have been involved

12-09-2005, 10:49 AM	#13
Thinman Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 08, 2005 Posts: 182	Is it possible that maybe she had a friend who was as emotionally damaged as she was that helped her with these "attacks"? It's doubtful, but there is nothing exactly normal about this case. Until there is evidence otherwise, I will continue to believe that she was behind the attacks all along. I just can't accept the fact that she was brutally attacked five times and there is not one bit of physical evidence that another party was involved. Even Jeffrey MacDonald supposedly has a long blonde hair and some candle wax that he hinges the hopes of his freedom on. I realize that this was 1982-89 and forensic science was not what it is today, but it was good enough to detect the presence of a foreign attacker. I truly feel bad for Cindy. She was a beautiful lady whose life was wasted. I just don't believe we will ever know all there is to know about her.

12-09-2005, 08:35 PM	#15
Toadley Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 08, 2005 Posts: 9	Is it possible the attacker had somehow gotten a key? It could easily have been someone she knew. It's also possible that there were more than one person involved in her harassment. I'm not saying she was innocent of it all, I just believe there is a good possibility that she was. Do the books tend to stick to the same story or do they seem to be slanted by the opinions of the authors in different ways? Also am I remembering this wrong or in the UM show did they say she said she knew who it was, or just that she knew more than she was telling and couldn't explain at that time?