Possible update to the Tracy Kirkpatrick murder - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

dynoguy88 · 10-19-2005, 03:56 PM

***post removed.***

PM if you want to read it.

crystaldawn · 10-19-2005, 04:00 PM

Wow thanks for posting that Dynoguy! Definitely sounds credible to me so keep us posted on any new developments.

Awsi Dooger · 10-19-2005, 07:49 PM

Extremely interesting to say the least.

The mother and other relatives need to cooperate and participate, if they are not already. The daughter may be correct, but at age 3 in 1989 obviously she doesn't have any first hand information. Info like the father returning home to fetch a fresh uniform needs to be verified by the mother. Has the daughter mentioned putting you in touch with her mother? The inference is the father changed uniforms. The mother may not only know if that's true, but also if the initial uniform showed any signs of blood, etc.

Obviously the family has a history in local law enforcement. It's understandable if the older generations are hesitant to get involved, or perhaps are in denial at the possibility of the father being the murderer. I would think the voice would be simple to identify. It had a slight lisp, if I remember correctly. Not a deep voice, very distinct. Yet somehow you've got that voice identified by the psychic as belonging to Shawn, and now by the daughter as belonging to her father. Two different people.

One thing always puzzled me about the confession tape: the caller saying he "often" went to the store and talked to Tracy. That seemed odd, and you would think Tracy would have mentioned it to someone, that a guy who she didn't know well and never bought anything (I assume) would regularly show up in a woman's clothing store at night and talk to her. A police officer who is assigned to check on the area would have an automatic excuse to be there frequently. That's what rung true the most about your description and his potential involvement.

I've never heard this rumor before, that a police officer was involved. Rogue cops are less rare than we like to believe, as evidenced by many of these true crime shows and plenty of reports coming out of New Orleans.

Kane · 10-19-2005, 08:03 PM

What I read is amazing, Dynoguy88.

Your unwillingness to name the person is understandable. Also, my suspicion is that the cops didn't want to publicly give out too much information, out of fear that it could jeopardize the case. And that's the only reason I can think of as to why UM made no mention of the person of interest.

It's one thing to suspect someone of a crime, but it's another to prove it. Sometimes, cops have to keep some suspicions to themselves, and it's for two reasons (which I have noted in another post):

1) If you suspect the right guy, you want to keep the media off his back, so that he's less likely to be compelled to behave more carefully, and more likely to make a mistake that could give him away.

2) If you suspect the wrong guy, then you haven't smeared an innocent man's good name.

Besides, I remember the UM segment about the so-called Torso Slayer, the only case that Eliot Ness never solved. It was mentioned in the segment that Ness believed he knew who the killer was, but didn't have enough evidence to make an arrest. Ness was being cautious, and knew well enough not to publicly accuse his suspect of the murders without proof. Had he done that, the suspect, who belonged to a prominent family, could have sued him for defamation.

This is one perfect example as to why cops have to be careful about what they tell the media about an ongoing investigation. Moreover, if they were to publicly name suspects too soon (especially when there's no hard evidence against them), it could spell trouble for the cops and the case...in more ways that one.

dynoguy88 · 10-20-2005, 12:04 PM

Awsi Dooger, I couldn't agree more that a police officer would have the perfect excuse to be there frequently - and if he usually came by when Tracy was closing up the store, that would make more sense in that Tracy might not have had any reason to fear him or tell too many people about it. It might be possible that he could have finally made a move on her and when she turned him down, he went nuts. But that's just a theory.

Apparently this suspect used to hit his wife and daughter all of the time. In his daughter's own words, he used to say he could do anything and get away with it....that we have no idea how many things he has already gotten away with. That he is untouchable, and no matter what you say about him, no one will believe you because he IS the law. So this guy doesn't have many positive things about him.

I probably won't hear from her for a couple days. She was in a car accident last week and injured her elbow. And then a few days later, she had go to the hospital for a kidney infection. So she needs some rest for now. But she told me that said she is fully prepared to do what she has to do. She also told me that new investigators have been assigned to the case so Tracy's family has a much better chance at a fair investigation now than they did 17 years ago. The only downer is some crucial evidence might have been destroyed but she was vague on those details.

ddelta · 10-20-2005, 02:03 PM

This post has made my day! And it makes me feel real special to be associated with all of you. We already have had 2 people involved in UM profiled cases come on these boards (Koala and Lisa Marie Kimmels mom) and now this. It goes to show that although a lot of these cases happened years ago a lot of people still have interest and want to see them solved!

PS - I don't know why but I remember thinking when this was on "maybe it was the cop who found her". Maybe I am a psychic. .... LOL.

DarkDante · 10-20-2005, 08:16 PM

Wow amazing - Simply amazing

dynoguy88 · 12-07-2005, 12:28 PM

Hey guys. I just wanted to tell you that I sent an e-mail to "Don's" daughter yesterday. Hopefully I'll hear back from her soon and see if she has gone to the police yet.

The last time I heard from her, she told me she was having a few health problems so I thought I shouldn't bug her for a while. That was about a month and a half ago. But my curiousity has been waiting. Hopefully she'll have an update for us soon. As soon as I hear something, I'll post it right away.

crystaldawn · 12-07-2005, 01:03 PM

Thanks for the update dynoguy! I have been thinking about this case the last few days and wondered what was going on. I look forward to hearing any new info when you come across it.

Beavervalleygirl · 12-19-2005, 06:28 PM

...........if Tracy's Family still live in the Frederick, Maryland area ? Or did they move back to the Pittsburgh area ? Thank You in advance.

kadrmas15 · 09-21-2006, 10:20 PM

Well this was a personal killing. For her to be stabbed so many times tells you whoever killed Tracy was quite angry with her. Whoever killed her was probably angry that Tracy rejected their sexual advances. Barry Horner was the detective issued to that case at the time and was interviewed in the UM segment. I am sure Horner has been retired for several years now. Richard Ashton I believe was the Chief of the FredrickPolice in the segment although I dont know if he was the same chief that was dismissed due to corruption. I do find the time difference very interesting. So this girls father was a Fredrick Police Officer? Or a mall security officer? Either way for him to be a regular patrolman there and not discover the lights in the store on for over an hour after the store was supposed to be closed? Strange. Appearantly Ashton is still very active in law enforcement even though he is retired and apperantly he is a well known law enforcement officer in Maryland. I think this girls dad is a hot suspect. I find it incredible that he had shared an apartment with a man named Shawn and that the girls dads name was Don. I remember when I heard the audio tape not thinking the voice on that tape sounded like a teenager. I thought it sounded like a man that was at least a few years older than a teenager. I find it interesting as well as how he would move out of that apartment shortly after this whole thing happened yet still pay rent for an apartment he wasnt living in. I think that Shawn was scared as you s aid and that he wanted the cops to figure that this Don did it he just didnt want to say it outright. I find it interesting how Don would move to Egypt. Did he move there to escape the clutches of U.S. Justice? I also looked up Chief Ashton and found his name mentioned in both state of Maryland courts and in U.S. Court of Appeals. Richard Ashton is still involved in law enforcement and is now the Grant/Technical Management Manager for the International Association of Chiefs of police.

dynoguy88 · 09-21-2006, 11:24 PM

I'm sorry to report that it's been several months now and I still haven't heard anything new.

I've e-mailed Don's daughter several times since last December and she hasn't returned ANY of them. I thought maybe she would actually respond if I told her I would like my video tape (of the UM segment) back but not even that got a response.

The last I heard from her, she told me she was in a small car accident and she injured one of her ribs and would have to spend a week off from work. I even sent her a get well soon card and that was the last I heard from her.

I'll try to e-mail her but I don't know if she's ever going to respond back now which is odd because we must have e-mailed each other at least 15 times.

LooksLikeCRicci · 09-22-2006, 11:06 AM

Sorry to hear that she's not responding, but thank you for the update...

AVERMAN · 02-27-2007, 11:59 AM

Just saw this on YouTube.

Any further updates other than the above mentioned ones?

LooksLikeCRicci · 02-27-2007, 12:39 PM

I'm assuming no, since dynoguy88 is pretty good about keeping us up to speed. Such a bummer, too!

I'm wondering if she decided that she's given out too much information and clammed up as a result. It certainly seems that way. It really is a shame, as it really was fascinating to follow.

10-19-2005, 03:56 PM	#1
dynoguy88 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 01, 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 3,675	Possible update to the Tracy Kirkpatrick murder *post removed.* PM if you want to read it.
	Last edited by dynoguy88; 12-30-2009 at 12:03 PM.

10-20-2005, 12:04 PM	#5
dynoguy88 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 01, 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 3,675	reply Awsi Dooger, I couldn't agree more that a police officer would have the perfect excuse to be there frequently - and if he usually came by when Tracy was closing up the store, that would make more sense in that Tracy might not have had any reason to fear him or tell too many people about it. It might be possible that he could have finally made a move on her and when she turned him down, he went nuts. But that's just a theory. Apparently this suspect used to hit his wife and daughter all of the time. In his daughter's own words, he used to say he could do anything and get away with it....that we have no idea how many things he has already gotten away with. That he is untouchable, and no matter what you say about him, no one will believe you because he IS the law. So this guy doesn't have many positive things about him. I probably won't hear from her for a couple days. She was in a car accident last week and injured her elbow. And then a few days later, she had go to the hospital for a kidney infection. So she needs some rest for now. But she told me that said she is fully prepared to do what she has to do. She also told me that new investigators have been assigned to the case so Tracy's family has a much better chance at a fair investigation now than they did 17 years ago. The only downer is some crucial evidence might have been destroyed but she was vague on those details.

12-07-2005, 12:28 PM	#8
dynoguy88 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 01, 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 3,675	reply Hey guys. I just wanted to tell you that I sent an e-mail to "Don's" daughter yesterday. Hopefully I'll hear back from her soon and see if she has gone to the police yet. The last time I heard from her, she told me she was having a few health problems so I thought I shouldn't bug her for a while. That was about a month and a half ago. But my curiousity has been waiting. Hopefully she'll have an update for us soon. As soon as I hear something, I'll post it right away.

12-19-2005, 06:28 PM	#10
Beavervalleygirl Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Sep 10, 2005 Posts: 30	Does anyone know ........... ...........if Tracy's Family still live in the Frederick, Maryland area ? Or did they move back to the Pittsburgh area ? Thank You in advance.

09-21-2006, 11:24 PM	#12
dynoguy88 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 01, 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 3,675	reply I'm sorry to report that it's been several months now and I still haven't heard anything new. I've e-mailed Don's daughter several times since last December and she hasn't returned ANY of them. I thought maybe she would actually respond if I told her I would like my video tape (of the UM segment) back but not even that got a response. The last I heard from her, she told me she was in a small car accident and she injured one of her ribs and would have to spend a week off from work. I even sent her a get well soon card and that was the last I heard from her. I'll try to e-mail her but I don't know if she's ever going to respond back now which is odd because we must have e-mailed each other at least 15 times.

10-19-2005, 04:00 PM	#2
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	Wow thanks for posting that Dynoguy! Definitely sounds credible to me so keep us posted on any new developments.

10-19-2005, 07:49 PM	#3
Awsi Dooger Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 18, 2003 Location: Miami Posts: 1,537	Extremely interesting to say the least. The mother and other relatives need to cooperate and participate, if they are not already. The daughter may be correct, but at age 3 in 1989 obviously she doesn't have any first hand information. Info like the father returning home to fetch a fresh uniform needs to be verified by the mother. Has the daughter mentioned putting you in touch with her mother? The inference is the father changed uniforms. The mother may not only know if that's true, but also if the initial uniform showed any signs of blood, etc. Obviously the family has a history in local law enforcement. It's understandable if the older generations are hesitant to get involved, or perhaps are in denial at the possibility of the father being the murderer. I would think the voice would be simple to identify. It had a slight lisp, if I remember correctly. Not a deep voice, very distinct. Yet somehow you've got that voice identified by the psychic as belonging to Shawn, and now by the daughter as belonging to her father. Two different people. One thing always puzzled me about the confession tape: the caller saying he "often" went to the store and talked to Tracy. That seemed odd, and you would think Tracy would have mentioned it to someone, that a guy who she didn't know well and never bought anything (I assume) would regularly show up in a woman's clothing store at night and talk to her. A police officer who is assigned to check on the area would have an automatic excuse to be there frequently. That's what rung true the most about your description and his potential involvement. I've never heard this rumor before, that a police officer was involved. Rogue cops are less rare than we like to believe, as evidenced by many of these true crime shows and plenty of reports coming out of New Orleans.

10-19-2005, 08:03 PM	#4
Kane Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 07, 2001 Location: MA, United States Posts: 3,367	What I read is amazing, Dynoguy88. Your unwillingness to name the person is understandable. Also, my suspicion is that the cops didn't want to publicly give out too much information, out of fear that it could jeopardize the case. And that's the only reason I can think of as to why UM made no mention of the person of interest. It's one thing to suspect someone of a crime, but it's another to prove it. Sometimes, cops have to keep some suspicions to themselves, and it's for two reasons (which I have noted in another post): 1) If you suspect the right guy, you want to keep the media off his back, so that he's less likely to be compelled to behave more carefully, and more likely to make a mistake that could give him away. 2) If you suspect the wrong guy, then you haven't smeared an innocent man's good name. Besides, I remember the UM segment about the so-called Torso Slayer, the only case that Eliot Ness never solved. It was mentioned in the segment that Ness believed he knew who the killer was, but didn't have enough evidence to make an arrest. Ness was being cautious, and knew well enough not to publicly accuse his suspect of the murders without proof. Had he done that, the suspect, who belonged to a prominent family, could have sued him for defamation. This is one perfect example as to why cops have to be careful about what they tell the media about an ongoing investigation. Moreover, if they were to publicly name suspects too soon (especially when there's no hard evidence against them), it could spell trouble for the cops and the case...in more ways that one.

10-20-2005, 02:03 PM	#6
ddelta Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Nov 07, 2003 Posts: 218	This post has made my day! And it makes me feel real special to be associated with all of you. We already have had 2 people involved in UM profiled cases come on these boards (Koala and Lisa Marie Kimmels mom) and now this. It goes to show that although a lot of these cases happened years ago a lot of people still have interest and want to see them solved! PS - I don't know why but I remember thinking when this was on "maybe it was the cop who found her". Maybe I am a psychic. .... LOL.

10-20-2005, 08:16 PM	#7
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	Wow amazing - Simply amazing

12-07-2005, 01:03 PM	#9
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	Thanks for the update dynoguy! I have been thinking about this case the last few days and wondered what was going on. I look forward to hearing any new info when you come across it.

09-21-2006, 10:20 PM	#11
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Well this was a personal killing. For her to be stabbed so many times tells you whoever killed Tracy was quite angry with her. Whoever killed her was probably angry that Tracy rejected their sexual advances. Barry Horner was the detective issued to that case at the time and was interviewed in the UM segment. I am sure Horner has been retired for several years now. Richard Ashton I believe was the Chief of the FredrickPolice in the segment although I dont know if he was the same chief that was dismissed due to corruption. I do find the time difference very interesting. So this girls father was a Fredrick Police Officer? Or a mall security officer? Either way for him to be a regular patrolman there and not discover the lights in the store on for over an hour after the store was supposed to be closed? Strange. Appearantly Ashton is still very active in law enforcement even though he is retired and apperantly he is a well known law enforcement officer in Maryland. I think this girls dad is a hot suspect. I find it incredible that he had shared an apartment with a man named Shawn and that the girls dads name was Don. I remember when I heard the audio tape not thinking the voice on that tape sounded like a teenager. I thought it sounded like a man that was at least a few years older than a teenager. I find it interesting as well as how he would move out of that apartment shortly after this whole thing happened yet still pay rent for an apartment he wasnt living in. I think that Shawn was scared as you s aid and that he wanted the cops to figure that this Don did it he just didnt want to say it outright. I find it interesting how Don would move to Egypt. Did he move there to escape the clutches of U.S. Justice? I also looked up Chief Ashton and found his name mentioned in both state of Maryland courts and in U.S. Court of Appeals. Richard Ashton is still involved in law enforcement and is now the Grant/Technical Management Manager for the International Association of Chiefs of police.

09-22-2006, 11:06 AM	#13
LooksLikeCRicci Likes to live in a clean house Moderator Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 4,050	Sorry to hear that she's not responding, but thank you for the update...

02-27-2007, 11:59 AM	#14
AVERMAN Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 12, 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 241	Just saw this on YouTube. Any further updates other than the above mentioned ones?

02-27-2007, 12:39 PM	#15
LooksLikeCRicci Likes to live in a clean house Moderator Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 4,050	I'm assuming no, since dynoguy88 is pretty good about keeping us up to speed. Such a bummer, too! I'm wondering if she decided that she's given out too much information and clammed up as a result. It certainly seems that way. It really is a shame, as it really was fascinating to follow.