D.B. Cooper

[robbieasbury]

Was D.B. Cooper Richard McCoy or was he killed in November, 1971 or is he still alive today?

[OriginalNightstalker]

Was Richard McCoy the guy in florida who confessed on his deathbed he was D.B. Cooper?

[robbieasbury]

Richard McCoy was killed in a shootout in 1974, but he was thought to be D.B. Cooper after a similar skyjacking in April, 1972.

[OriginalNightstalker]

The guy in Florida had the same correct name as D.B. Cooper,(not D.B. Cooper) told his wife around the time of the hijacking he just found out he had a kidney disease and was told he only had a few months to live. He claims he did this because he had nothing to live for. Inside hidden in his van there was something placing him in the washington area at the time. I wanna say the guy's name was Dan Cooper, not 100% sure.

[robbieasbury]

At the airport ticket desk, he said he was Dan Cooper. Some reporter accidently confused a suspect, who was later released, named D. B. Cooper with the skyjacker.

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by robbieasbury

Richard McCoy was killed in a shootout in 1974, but he was thought to be D.B. Cooper after a similar skyjacking in April, 1972.

That's exactly right. But incredibly frustrating there isn't more focus on the McCoy-as-Cooper connection, other than one two-hour show a few years ago on the Discovery Channel.

I was just looking at old threads I missed this summer while on vacation. This one jumped out at me because I would have responded to robbieasbury. Below is a link to a thread I posted here a couple of years ago. The last 4 or 5 posts in the thread are all from me, detailing the McCoy as Cooper specifics as outlined in the book, "D.B. Cooper, The Real McCoy."

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...ad.php?t=67888

[justins5256]

Awsi Dooger -

First, let me just say that I enjoy reading your posts on the subject. I have always been fascinated by the Cooper story.

Now, a couple questions:

Why do you think Ralph Himmelsbach (sp?) doesn't entertain the possibility that McCoy was D.B. Cooper? (I'm assuming Himmelsbach is the FBI agent you've mentioned in previous posts who is quick to dismiss the theory).

Second, many sources are quick to point out that a plastic emergency exit sign from the plane's rear door, and some of the money was recovered in the woods/on the beach. However, I have read in two (not so reliable) places that a parachute was found in the late seventies. Do you know anything about this?

Thanks,
Justin

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by justins5256

Awsi Dooger -

First, let me just say that I enjoy reading your posts on the subject. I have always been fascinated by the Cooper story.

Now, a couple questions:

Why do you think Ralph Himmelsbach (sp?) doesn't entertain the possibility that McCoy was D.B. Cooper? (I'm assuming Himmelsbach is the FBI agent you've mentioned in previous posts who is quick to dismiss the theory).

Second, many sources are quick to point out that a plastic emergency exit sign from the plane's rear door, and some of the money was recovered in the woods/on the beach. However, I have read in two (not so reliable) places that a parachute was found in the late seventies. Do you know anything about this?

Thanks,
Justin

Justin, thanks for the compliment. I'm continually amazed by the lack of McCoy/Cooper info, or apparent interest. If there is legit information rejecting McCoy as Cooper I'm every bit as eager to look at that. Just haven't seen any.

First of all, I have not heard of a Cooper parachute being located. Where did you get that? McCoy ditched the parachute in some sort of cylindrical object beside the road after the second skyjacking. A teenager found it when his dad stopped the car to change a tire.

Yes, Ralph Himmelsbach. The guy who was the FBI lead investigator on the D.B. Cooper case out of Portland for more than 8 years, late 1971 until his mandatory retirement in 1980. The same Ralph Himmelsbach who never realized the search for Cooper had been conducted in the wrong area until the day of his retirement, when the pilot of the Cooper flight paid a courtesy visit and matter-of-factly pointed out where the plane had been when Cooper jumped. Completely different than the FBI had estimated. That pretty much told me all I needed to know regarding the competence and thoroughness of Ralph Himmelsbach. He has called Cooper "a rodent," "a bastard," "a dirty, rotten crook" and "nothing more than a "sleazy, rotten criminal who jeopardized the lives of more than 40 people for money." Does that sound like a rational, intelligent, even-keeled guy you want heading an investigation of this magnitude?

Himmelsbach has been insisting Richard McCoy was in Los Angeles on the day of the Cooper jump. Minor detail: McCoy's records from the Utah Air National Guard indicate otherwise. McCoy's records at BYU confirmed he finished his last class before Thanksgiving break at 9:30 AM on Tuesday, November 23, 1971, the day before the D.B. Cooper skyjacking. McCoy had scheduled to be on National Guard duty on Wednesday, but didn't show up. The duty roster indicated McCoy attended four drills the week before November 20 and five drills three weeks later on December 12-16. He wasn't assigned to attend particular drills, just so many within a given time period, and could work out the details for himself. Himmelsbach makes a fool of himself every time he insists McCoy can be placed in Los Angeles. As I pointed out in the thread I initiated, even McCoy and his relatives didn't claim he had been in Los Angeles. They had obviously rehearsed an alibi, that McCoy was in Provo helping with Thanksgiving dinner. The gas and phone records blow up that claim.

The FBI botched the Cooper case from the outset. Himmelsbach himself tried to follow the Cooper plane in a helicopter. If that wasn't brilliant enough, they sent up high speed fighter planes that were useless given the very slow speed that Cooper insisted on, barely fast enough to keep his plane aloft. The fighter planes had to come down and another plane sent up in their place. Not only did the FBI search in the wrong place, they limited it to 28 square miles. The widespread search is a myth.

On top of that, the fingerprint crew completely mangled collecting evidence from the D.B. Cooper plane. Cooper and McCoy each nervously flipped thru magazines. It should be simple to compare fingerprints and verify if Cooper was McCoy, or anyone else. McCoy was convicted partially via fingerprint evidence from the plane. Here is a paragraph from the book, quoting an FBI agent from Salt Lake City in 1972: "No matter how you cut it, from here on out that bunch in Reno will either have to hang together and stonewall it -- or come up with some pretty sophisticated explanations why they let the Reno City police dust that plane for prints and why those damn magazines never got back to the FBI Fingerprint Division."

Himmelsbach wrote a book in the mid '80s, essentially claiming that D.B. Cooper splattered and his body and the money drifted downstream to where the $5800 was eventually found in 1980. So it's not like he can retract the entire premise of his book and agree McCoy was Cooper. But then he supposedly listened with great interest to the claims of the wife of that Webber guy who "confessed" on his deathbed. Himmelsbach is a scattergun. One guy commits a virtually identical crime four months later with numerous similarities that defy coincidence, but he would rather pretend an out-of-nowhere goofball looking for posthumous press is a more likely suspect.

The leaks and claims have all come from individuals who have retired from the FBI, not working agents. Himmelsbach strikes me as a simpleton who would rather concoct his own bizarre theories. An agency like that would much rather have the public believe a mysterious figure nearly got away with a big score but died trying, than one person beat them twice and was only caught due to his own big mouth. Remember, the FBI "solved" the McCoy case only when one of McCoy's friends tipped them. He had parachuted down and gotten home with the money, $500,000.

The authors of the book encountered many roadblocks, demonstrating the FBI -- especially more than a decade ago -- wasn't thrilled with the McCoy as Cooper specifics being revealed. Especially involving the critical piece of evidence, the dark narrow tie and mother-of-pearl tie clasp. Many FBI agents from the investigation claimed they couldn't remember those items at all. That was major league BS, an attempted coverup. They had remarkable memory regarding other details. Those two items were used to weed out nutcases claiming to be Cooper. The bureau would ask if they left anything behind on the plane. No one had answered correctly. Duh. The guy who left them was killed in a shootout in 1974. The two-hour program on the Discovery Channel concluded with a picture of the tie and clasp. The book indicates the two items are being held at the evidence room at the FBI division office in Seattle.

When the authors of this book sought pictures of the tie and tie clasp, among other information on the Cooper and McCoy skyjackings, they had to sue the Department of Justice and the FBI. Both agencies refused to release documents. The authors eventually settled out of court. Among the items the agencies refused to release: the interviews with Richard McCoy's mother-in-law and sister-in-law in which they separately identified the tie and tie clasp as belonging to McCoy.

Let me emphasize one thing: I'm certain there is widespread dispute within the FBI whether McCoy was Cooper. To me, it's simple probability. If a near-identical 9/11 had transpired elsewhere four months later, I'd damn sure suspect Bin Laden and Al Queda first and foremost, regardless of trivial differences. In the agency I'm sure certain people want everything to fit perfectly, and of course it will not. Especially eyewitness identification of someone wearing makeup, wigs and other forms of disguise in each case.

The FBI was obviously investigating the connection VERY early. The book includes a print of an FBI internal teletype from April 18, 1972, just 11 days after theMcCoy skyjacking: "...NOTES POSSIBILITY MC COY DROVE FROM SALT LAKE CITY TO LAS VEGAS, FLEW TO PORTLAND TO COMMIT HIJACKING, RETURNED TO LAS VEGAS, AND DROVE BACK TO SALT LAKE CITY. INVESTIGATION INDICATES COLLECT CALL TO MC COY'S RESIDENCE NOVEMBER TWENTY-FIVE LAST AT TEN FORTY-ONE PM FROM LAS VEGAS AS WELL AS GAS PURCHASE IN LAS VEGAS SAME DATE USING BANK AMERICARD."

[robbieasbury]

I'd like to have that dramatization that The Discovery Channel aired on DVD. I saw it when it aired, it brought a convincing case that Richard McCoy was D.B. Cooper. Has The Discovery Channel released it on DVD?

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by robbieasbury

I'd like to have that dramatization that The Discovery Channel aired on DVD. I saw it when it aired, it brought a convincing case that Richard McCoy was D.B. Cooper. Has The Discovery Channel released it on DVD?

Apparently not. At least not yet. I just checked the Discovery Channel Store and they only have one D.B. Cooper DVD, but it's related to the search not Richard McCoy. It's definitely not the two-hour program you're referring to. Here is the link, below. You might check there from time to time, or send an email regarding availability of that program: http://shopping.discovery.com/stores...atalogId=10000

[justins5256]

Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger

First of all, I have not heard of a Cooper parachute being located. Where did you get that? McCoy ditched the parachute in some sort of cylindrical object beside the road after the second skyjacking. A teenager found it when his dad stopped the car to change a tire.

The first time I heard of it was in a Reader's Digest anthology of Unsolved/Unexplaiend Mysteries (I'm at work right now, but can get the title for you later tonight). The book focused more on UFOs, Bigfoot, ghosts, and the like, but there was a chapter on missing persons, and Dan Cooper was featured. They didn't go into a lot of detail (the Cooper story was about two or three quick paragraphs) but they did mention that a parachute had been found in the woods after the plastic notice sign was found, but before the discovery of the money. The book quoted various articles from the New York Times as the source. I found every single article on microfiche at the public library, but was unable to find any mention of a parachute being discovered.

Another book I read some years ago also made a similar claim. The book implied that an orange colored fabric had been found by a group of hunters in the woods in the late seventies. The author of the book, Maxwell Gunther, also claimed that Dan Cooper had contacted him, and told him the whole story. The bulk of the book was based on this man's story.

I didn't feel either was a credible source, but if anyone knows differently regarding the doscovery of the parachute, I would like to know.

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by justins5256

The first time I heard of it was in a Reader's Digest anthology of Unsolved/Unexplaiend Mysteries (I'm at work right now, but can get the title for you later tonight). The book focused more on UFOs, Bigfoot, ghosts, and the like, but there was a chapter on missing persons, and Dan Cooper was featured. They didn't go into a lot of detail (the Cooper story was about two or three quick paragraphs) but they did mention that a parachute had been found in the woods after the plastic notice sign was found, but before the discovery of the money. The book quoted various articles from the New York Times as the source. I found every single article on microfiche at the public library, but was unable to find any mention of a parachute being discovered.

Another book I read some years ago also made a similar claim. The book implied that an orange colored fabric had been found by a group of hunters in the woods in the late seventies. The author of the book, Maxwell Gunther, also claimed that Dan Cooper had contacted him, and told him the whole story. The bulk of the book was based on this man's story.

I didn't feel either was a credible source, but if anyone knows differently regarding the doscovery of the parachute, I would like to know.

Thanks, Justin. I've heard of Max Gunther and seen him quoted in regard to the D.B. Cooper case, but I've never read his book.

I scanned the Real McCoy book the other day and there was no mention of a Cooper parachute being found. It's funny, though, how little focus the authors of that book have on the first jump. The chapter is small and titled, "McCoy's Rehearsal: D.B. Cooper." That cracked me up the first time I read it.

Regarding your previous question, I wish knew why Himmelsbach rejected McCoy so routinely. Obviously he can't easily reconsider after writing a book 15 years after the fact, basically saying D.B. Cooper splattered. But what about early on? My guess is Himmelsbach was full steam into the Cooper investigation in April 1972 when the McCoy skyjacking occured. He was probably frustrated at the failures of the investigation and didn't want to give up. No doubt he'd already concluded Cooper was a corpse in a creek but they just couldn't find it. He had animosity toward Cooper as evidenced by the quotes I provided in the lengthy post a few days ago.

The FBI discovered the potential trip McCoy made to Las Vegas the day before the Cooper event, but I think they stalled at that point and couldn't verify much else. Some things didn't add up regarding the Cooper/McCoy similarities. For one thing, McCoy was 29 and the Cooper estimates were generally much higher, in the 40s as an average. But there was a disguise and makeup, plus you can look at the McCoy picture and see he looked hard in the face and with thinning hair he appeared much older than his actual age. I think Himmelsbach didn't have enough concrete evidence to accept the two men were one and decided to ignore McCoy and plow ahead. Stubbornness and old age made him stick to that faulty premise.

[robbieasbury]

I remember watching a documentary on A&E with Bill Kurtis about The FBI Ten Most Wanted List. It said that Richard McCoy had the wrong color of eyes as Cooper, course if he were wearing sunglasses you couldn't see his eyes, unless he took them off.

[Awsi Dooger]

Originally Posted by robbieasbury

I remember watching a documentary on A&E with Bill Kurtis about The FBI Ten Most Wanted List. It said that Richard McCoy had the wrong color of eyes as Cooper, course if he were wearing sunglasses you couldn't see his eyes, unless he took them off.

That's an interesting point. Richard McCoy had light blue eyes. D.B. Cooper wore wraparound mirrored glasses during much of the trip. It's true the stewardess who dealt with Cooper most often, Tina Mucklow, thought Cooper had brown eyes. Other witnesses on the plane weren't sure about the color of Cooper's eyes. Passengers on the second hijacking were in disagreement about McCoy's eye color. Even the convict on that flight, William Coggin, the one who pointed out that McCoy had ducked into the lavatory and dramatically changed appearance, couldn't come up with McCoy's eye color despite obviously paying close attention. Coggin was the one passenger who McCoy did not insist be moved forward from his original seat.

Eyewitness recollection, of course, is notoriously unreliable. The general lighting on an airplane is low density. I'm not going to dwell on that discrepancy in lieu of big picture stuff that cannot be adequately explained unless McCoy was Cooper: McCoy -- a non-gambler -- driving from Provo to Las Vegas on the early morning of the Cooper skyjacking, using his credit card for gas purchase, and then apparently vaporizing for a day and a half, no record of any hotel room or other purchases, until his credit card is used for gas again, at the closest gas station to Las Vegas's McCarron International Airport. Then a collect phone call from the Tropicana Hotel, again the closest hotel to the airport, to McCoy's home in Provo.

The author of the book tried to interview Tina Mucklow, BTW. She basically renounced the life she knew prior to the Cooper flight and joined a convent as Sister Mary Alice. During a phone conversation she struggled to remember much, if anything, about the Cooper flight so the matter was not pursued.

[CODIS]

When the FBI executed the search warrant for Richard McCoy's home in Utah after questioning him, They found the entire ransom amount(minus a few bucks) in the closet. I find it hard to believe that Cooper & McCoy were the same individual being the fact the the money from the first jump was never recovered or turned up in circulation. Also, The reason I think that they have eliminated McCoy and Duane Weber as the real "Dan Cooper" is that they had DNA evidence of the skyjacker ( the cigarette butts from the Raliegh cigarettes he smoked while commiting the skyjack ) that is still sealed in evidence bags at the FBI evidence room. I beleive that the DNA did not match either of the two. I think that McCoy used "Cooper's executed plan as a blueprint, being that he had the experience as a jumper in the service. I think Duane Weber story is a bunch of BS. Just my 2c.