Did Archie Change Over The Years? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Janice · 07-23-2005, 12:10 PM

For the better, worse...or did he stay the same? Was he as much of a narrowminded bigot in the final season as he was in the first season? Was there any progress in Archie's overall attitude?

seventies_sitcoms · 07-23-2005, 03:19 PM

I think Archie channged a lot! He started to mellow I think once Mike and Gloria left. He started turning into a more of a Grandpa type when Stephanie came on the show. I don't seem to recall any of the hatred and the bigotry in late All in the Family. I can't remember any at all in Archie Bunker's Place. So, yes, I think Archie was cleaned up. I don't know if it was CBS or Carroll O'Connor behind that. I would think that somebody who was like Archie would remain set in their way after so many years and wouldn't change if you ask me.

Brian Damage · 07-23-2005, 03:24 PM

He changed for the worse! Not only did he mellow out, he also became sort of a silly cartoon character of his former self.

Vince 887 · 08-15-2005, 05:42 PM

Theres no question about it..Archie definately changed during the course of the series... But I never thought Archie was as much as a bigot as made out to be though he did use offensive words alot in the beginning .he seemed to really like Lionel's and even asked him to have dessert when he came to visit in one episode....George Jefferson really was more a bigot until even his charecter mellowed alot by the end of the Jeffersons and Sherman told the producers he didn't see the need for using racist terms especially in regards to Tom Willis ..I think by 1985 Archie and George might have shared a beer or two

TVFactFan · 08-15-2005, 08:38 PM

It was funny how George got along better with Archie than Tom Willis-lol

Vince 887 · 08-15-2005, 09:25 PM

And Archie almost got along with anyone better than Mike Stivic LOL.... I think he would have preferred Gloria married to Lionel

Brieannas21 · 08-16-2005, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince 887

And Archie almost got along with anyone better than Mike Stivic LOL.... I think he would have preferred Gloria married to Lionel

LOL I think he would have had a stroke and disowned Gloria if that would have happened.

Vince 887 · 08-16-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brieannas21

LOL I think he would have had a stroke and disowned Gloria if that would have happened.

Maybe it would have happened if Archie were killed off during the 5th season as that was a distinct possiblity if Carol chose not to return

Mikado · 08-16-2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventies_sitcoms

So, yes, I think Archie was cleaned up. I don't know if it was CBS or Carroll O'Connor behind that.

Carroll OC was pretty much in charge of ABP, it was his idea to soften Archie up; I think he figured Archie should move with the times and, the times, they were a-changing

GeorgeWBushGOP · 08-21-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince 887

Theres no question about it..Archie definately changed during the course of the series... But I never thought Archie was as much as a bigot as made out to be though he did use offensive words alot in the beginning .he seemed to really like Lionel's and even asked him to have dessert when he came to visit in one episode....George Jefferson really was more a bigot until even his charecter mellowed alot by the end of the Jeffersons and Sherman told the producers he didn't see the need for using racist terms especially in regards to Tom Willis ..I think by 1985 Archie and George might have shared a beer or two

Well Archie just didn't know better. That was my opinion of him. He was raised to think a certain way. My grandparents were worse than his character as they were truly hateful bigots and I am grateful that I was not influenced by them. Even my own father had a little of it in him although I don't remember him using racial slurs. You could just tell.

Archie seemed to be an intense bigot at first though. Even though he liked Lynol he treated him like a second class citizen. and episodes like where his hospital mate with the french accent turned out to be black he ran for the hills. And campaigning to keep black people out of the neighborhood was intense racism although you can make the argument that he just didn't want his property values going down which is the concern of just about every homeowner.

The answer really is who knows?

In most sitcoms you see the focal characters get dumber and dumber as years go by..(Cheers is a perfect example of this). In this case Archie became vanilla and saw the error of his ways even though you never had an episode where he had that moment of truth.

Brieannas21 · 08-21-2005, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBushGOP

Well Archie just didn't know better. That was my opinion of him. He was raised to think a certain way. My grandparents were worse than his character as they were truly hateful bigots and I am grateful that I was not influenced by them. Even my own father had a little of it in him although I don't remember him using racial slurs. You could just tell.

Archie seemed to be an intense bigot at first though. Even though he liked Lynol he treated him like a second class citizen. and episodes like where his hospital mate with the french accent turned out to be black he ran for the hills. And campaigning to keep black people out of the neighborhood was intense racism although you can make the argument that he just didn't want his property values going down which is the concern of just about every homeowner.

The answer really is who knows?

In most sitcoms you see the focal characters get dumber and dumber as years go by..(Cheers is a perfect example of this). In this case Archie became vanilla and saw the error of his ways even though you never had an episode where he had that moment of truth.

There's no way you can justify racism by saying "he just didn't know better."

GeorgeWBushGOP · 08-21-2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brieannas21

There's no way you can justify racism by saying "he just didn't know better."

Who's justifying it?

Good some "social issue" freak now is getting up in arms about my comments.

Everybody is a bigot to a certain extent.

Now you please tell me this. If my grandparents were intense racists. BUt they were good and very loving to myself. Does that make them terrible people. Or does it just mean they didn't know better? Because I have wonderful memories of them. And in the case of Archie he was totally devoted to his wife and daughter. Like I said. He didn't know better.

Brieannas21 · 08-21-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBushGOP

Who's justifying it?

Good some "social issue" freak now is getting up in arms about my comments.

Everybody is a bigot to a certain extent.

Now you please tell me this. If my grandparents were intense racists. BUt they were good and very loving to myself. Does that make them terrible people. Or does it just mean they didn't know better? Because I have wonderful memories of them. And in the case of Archie he was totally devoted to his wife and daughter. Like I said. He didn't know better.

I'm not getting up in arms about anything. If your grandparents were like Archie then yes I do think that they were racist. Yes they were loving to you because they were your grandparents. If you believe and think a certain way about another race. If you dislike a person just because of their skin color. If you past judgement towards a whole race of people then Yes you are ignorant towards a lot of beautiful people/things in the world.

Just because your parents are racist or say ignorant things about another race doesn't mean that you have to grow up that way and believe in the things that your parents believe in.

And yes Archie loved Gloria, that was his daugther, but she didn't grow up saying and believe in the things Archie believed in.

GeorgeWBushGOP · 08-21-2005, 05:29 PM

Uh duh, That was my point. I didn't grow up like them.

and I didn't agree with them.

But if somebody is bigoted you really can't do anything about it. You can't force them to think otherwise.

They grew up in that time where blacks and whites were seperate.

I didn't like the slurs that came out of their mouths. But I still loved them unconditionally. and they loved each other as Grandma died and then less than a month later grandpa died of a broken heart. And also evident that their funerals were both literally standing room only at the church.

Brieannas21 · 08-21-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBushGOP

Uh duh, That was my point. I didn't grow up like them.

and I didn't agree with them.

But if somebody is bigoted you really can't do anything about it. You can't force them to think otherwise.

They grew up in that time where blacks and whites were seperate.

I didn't like the slurs that came out of their mouths. But I still loved them unconditionally. and they loved each other as Grandma died and then less than a month later grandpa died of a broken heart. And also evident that their funerals were both literally standing room only at the church.

Yeah a lot of people racist OR not have people that love them. It's not about that it's about their veiws and the way they think and act towards people. There are people who just hate everybody and everything and yet they have people who love them.

Just as in Sanford and Son, Fred was racist also, he didn't like anyone who wasn't black mainly, he wasn't brought up that way I don't think. it's just the times that he grow up in and the things he had to go through growing up as a black man in the 30's 40's 50's 60's. Everyone is going to have some prejudice in their life if they want to admit it or not. I'm Biracial and I know that my great great grandmother and father on my dads side wouldn't like me and wouldn't even want me in their home.

But anyway the topic is about if Archie change through out the show and I think he did, he even took little stephie in and that was a big step, and in Archie bunkers place one of his closes friends was a black women.

07-23-2005, 12:10 PM	#1
Janice Retired Admin - Hollywood Swingin' Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 03, 2001 Location: Beantown Posts: 36,388	Did Archie Change Over The Years? For the better, worse...or did he stay the same? Was he as much of a narrowminded bigot in the final season as he was in the first season? Was there any progress in Archie's overall attitude?

07-23-2005, 03:19 PM	#2
seventies_sitcoms * Senior Member Join Date: Jan 09, 2005 Posts: 2,244	I think Archie channged a lot! He started to mellow I think once Mike and Gloria left. He started turning into a more of a Grandpa type when Stephanie came on the show. I don't seem to recall any of the hatred and the bigotry in late All in the Family. I can't remember any at all in Archie Bunker's Place. So, yes, I think Archie was cleaned up. I don't know if it was CBS or Carroll O'Connor behind that. I would think that somebody who was like Archie would remain set in their way after so many years and wouldn't change if you ask me.

07-23-2005, 03:24 PM	#3
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	He changed for the worse! Not only did he mellow out, he also became sort of a silly cartoon character of his former self.

08-15-2005, 05:42 PM	#4
Vince 887 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 29, 2005 Posts: 110	Theres no question about it..Archie definately changed during the course of the series... But I never thought Archie was as much as a bigot as made out to be though he did use offensive words alot in the beginning .he seemed to really like Lionel's and even asked him to have dessert when he came to visit in one episode....George Jefferson really was more a bigot until even his charecter mellowed alot by the end of the Jeffersons and Sherman told the producers he didn't see the need for using racist terms especially in regards to Tom Willis ..I think by 1985 Archie and George might have shared a beer or two

08-15-2005, 08:38 PM	#5
TVFactFan Member Forum Junkie Join Date: Aug 17, 2002 Posts: 99,135	It was funny how George got along better with Archie than Tom Willis-lol

08-15-2005, 09:25 PM	#6
Vince 887 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 29, 2005 Posts: 110	And Archie almost got along with anyone better than Mike Stivic LOL.... I think he would have preferred Gloria married to Lionel

08-21-2005, 05:29 PM	#14
GeorgeWBushGOP Member Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 04, 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 802	Uh duh, That was my point. I didn't grow up like them. and I didn't agree with them. But if somebody is bigoted you really can't do anything about it. You can't force them to think otherwise. They grew up in that time where blacks and whites were seperate. I didn't like the slurs that came out of their mouths. But I still loved them unconditionally. and they loved each other as Grandma died and then less than a month later grandpa died of a broken heart. And also evident that their funerals were both literally standing room only at the church.