Did MTM Copy Doris Day?

[JaneTVFan]

I just got the first season (1968-69) "Doris Day Show" DVD last week and have watched about a dozen episodes, plus some of the bonus features, which include the opening credits for the second season (which will be released in October on DVD). A couple of things have struck me. One of the episodes I have seen so far was written by James L. Brooks, creator of the "Mary Tyler Moore Show." The first season of this show takes place on a ranch where the widow Doris Martin is raising her two sons along with her father (Denver Pyle), but in the second season Doris becomes a career woman and gets a job in San Francisco for a magazine where she is eventually promoted to reporter. Her boss is Maclean Stevenson (of M*A*S*H fame) and Rose Marie works in the office there (another interesting MTM connection). With this second season premise, which began in 1969 (a year before the MTM show), I can't help but wonder if James L. Brooks had this show in mind when he conceived the MTM Show. He MUST have. And then seeing those 1969 Doris Day Show opening credits, one cannot help but notice the striking similarity to the MTM opening. It starts out with Doris driving a red convertible from the country into to San Francisco, ready to take on life in this new city (like Mary Richards driving into Minneapolis in the opening of that show). Then we shots of Doris taking in the city of San Francisco -- at the wharf, jumping off a trolley, etc. (just as we see Mary Richards in various scenes in Minneapolis -- at work, in the park, etc.). The opening ends with Doris running across a busy street holding her hat on her head so it doesn't blow off. You almost expect to see her grab that hat and throw it up into the air. While MTM had its catchy theme song, "The Doris Day Show" had Doris singing her famous hit Que Sera, Sera.

I find these parallels quite interesting. Not to mention that both Mary and Doris were also America's sweethearts at that time. "The Doris Day Show" hit its peak in 1969-70 at 10th place in the ratings, and slightly bested MTM the next year, MTM's first (DD was 20th and MTM was 22nd). In 1971, in a major format change, Doris's two sons and most of the rest of the cast were written off the show, allowing the show to explore the Doris's glamorous life in San Francisco and traveling the world as a very fashionable magazine writer with an incredible wardrobe.

[TV DVD Fan]

It's been said previously that Grant Tinker, Mary's husband at the time, had the idea for Mary practically ever since TDVDS went off the air. So, no. MTM was totally unique though you might've noticed a few similarities.


I think Mary had more spunk than Doris Day, and the setting was different and the unique traits of Mary's confidants, who all were like family.

pat

[TripperFan]

I can see similarities between the two, but I know with MTM they wanted to focus more on the "liberated" single woman. Doris was a widow and probably was a homemaker before her husband died. He would have left money and the ranch of course to her. With Mary, they wanted a single woman, striking out on her own - without the help of a man.

Geez, I haven't seen (or even thought of) the Doris Day show in a long time. I sure would be fun to see again. I remember enjoying it as a kid.

[JaneTVFan]

Actually, in one of the first season episodes, a New York magazine tries to lure Doris away from the ranch and BACK to writing for them in New York. Ultimately, in that episode, she opts to remain on the ranch, if only for the remainder of that season. But it's clear from this early episode that Doris had been a career woman before. In the next season, she does go back to work and eventually is a magazine writer again. In the last couple of seasons, in a Twilight Zone kind of format twist, she goes from being a widow to a single (childless) career woman, still working for the same magazine in San Francisco, but with a glamorous and exiting career that enables her to travel the globe. This format was more in line with the type of characters she had played in her movies from the early '60s.

Doris, in her groundbreaking early '60s movie comedies, played the first liberated single woman. I think it was this movie characterization that Mary Richards, and eventually Doris's own TV character, were modeled after. On her TV show, Doris kept changing the format until she got back to that movie character. The interesting thing is, she had no idea that her husband had, in early 1968, committed her to do a five-year run in a sitcom on CBS. She did not learn about this until just after his death in April of that year. By that point, he had already set everything in motion for this show -- even the format (which she hated) -- without her knowledge. After his death, she learned about this, plus the fact that he and a business partner had gambled away all her money to the point of bankruptcy. This shocking news led her to stick it out with this TV show, even though she hated the initial concept. But she and the producers kept changing the format through the years until it was more to her liking. And then after the five years, she quit. But thanks to this show, she was able to emerge from bankruptcy. A couple years later, she successfully sued her late husband's business partner for millions of dollars and then disappeared from the public eye altogether into a very private retirement. But she did leave a legacy, and I'm sure James L. Brooks got a few ideas from working on her show.

Originally Posted by TripperFan

I can see similarities between the two, but I know with MTM they wanted to focus more on the "liberated" single woman. Doris was a widow and probably was a homemaker before her husband died. He would have left money and the ranch of course to her. With Mary, they wanted a single woman, striking out on her own - without the help of a man.

Geez, I haven't seen (or even thought of) the Doris Day show in a long time. I sure would be fun to see again. I remember enjoying it as a kid.

[TripperFan]

Wow - that's really interested Jane! Thanks for posting that. I never had heard about any of that before. Could you imagine that happening? Being forced into a show you don't want to do, he dies, you feel you should continue it (maybe in his memory) only to find out the creep left you bankrupt!! He couldn't have been insured for much either!
It's a good thing he was already dead - or I'm sure she would have killed him!

[ClassicTVGal]

Jane,

You mentioned the hat thing for both shows. Well I mentioned this in another thread. Well on the DVD (and I kinda already knew this from interviews and such with Mary) that Mary's hat tossing in the streets of Minneapolis was a spur of the moment thing. Well you know what I meant, it wasn't really planned out on paper and such.

[ontheroof]

I agree that the credit sequence for season 2 of TDDS does seem a bit similar to TMTMS (and also a bit similar to Phyllis -- and that show's credits were also filmed in San Francisco).

But even moreso than the James L. Brooks connection, the real link between the two shows is a man named Reza Badiya. As well as directing a number of third-season episodes of The Doris Day Show, he was the man responsible for creating the opening credits of The Mary Tyler Moore Show!

Now, it seems that the first episode Mr. Badiya directed for TDDS aired on October 12, 1970 -- a few weeks after the premiere of TMTMS. The San Francisco credit sequence from TDDS would have been filmed a year earlier, in summer 1969, and it doesn't seem that Mr. Badiya was associated with TDDS at that time. Still, it is interesting that around the same time he began directing TDDS, he was creating the credits for TMTMS, which I think were filmed in late spring 1970. Even if he hadn't started directing for TDDS yet, he surely would have known about the job, and would had to have watched some episodes by then -- episodes that would have included the opening credits. Coincidence?

I can't seem to find out who directed the credit sequences from TDDS. Season 1 looks to be, at least, photographed by the same guy who was the DP for the series (well, same shot-through-a-mattress close-ups on Doris, anyway). The season 2 credits seem to be less gauzy. Anyone have any info on who filmed any of these credits?

Posted this on TDDS board as well, as it's maybe more directly related to that show...

[JaneTVFan]

Originally Posted by TripperFan

Wow - that's really interested Jane! Thanks for posting that. I never had heard about any of that before. Could you imagine that happening? Being forced into a show you don't want to do, he dies, you feel you should continue it (maybe in his memory) only to find out the creep left you bankrupt!! He couldn't have been insured for much either!
It's a good thing he was already dead - or I'm sure she would have killed him!

Yeah, I agree. To make matters worse, Doris had allowed this guy (her husband) to manage her career. That was a mistake. While she had been the top box office draw in the late '50s and early '60s, by the late '60s, he kept putting her in turkeys. In a matter of a few years, she had gone from being Hollywood's biggest female star to sort of a joke because of the bad movies her husband kept signing her to do. So when he died and she discovered she was bankrupt AND committed to doing a TV show she didn't want to do, she HAD to do the TV show to get out of bankruptcy because, due to all those turkeys, movies weren't really an option at that point. Too bad she hadn't been married to Grant Tinker. Things would have surely turned out differently.

[JaneTVFan]

Originally Posted by Tony&Angela4Ever

Jane,

You mentioned the hat thing for both shows. Well I mentioned this in another thread. Well on the DVD (and I kinda already knew this from interviews and such with Mary) that Mary's hat tossing in the streets of Minneapolis was a spur of the moment thing. Well you know what I meant, it wasn't really planned out on paper and such.

Yeah, I had heard that the hat toss was spontaneous. But I think it was the perfect thing for her to do because it reminds one of the tossing of a graduation cap. And in a sense, Mary was graduating and entering into real independence and life on her own and on her own terms.

[JaneTVFan]

Originally Posted by ontheroof

I agree that the credit sequence for season 2 of TDDS does seem a bit similar to TMTMS (and also a bit similar to Phyllis -- and that show's credits were also filmed in San Francisco).

That Phyllis opening seems to me to be a takeoff on Mame. Remember those lyrics: "You coax the blues right out of the horn, Mame,
You charm the husk right off of the corn, Mame," etc., etc. In the Phyllis opening, the lyrics seem to be going in the same direction, as if they're gloryfying Phyllis -- "Who makes the fog surrounding the Golden Gate simply disappear? Phyllis. Phyllis." etc., etc. -- until we get to the last line: "Phyllis! Phyllis! Phyllis! It sure isn't you!" LOL! Poor Phyllis.

Originally Posted by ontheroof

But even moreso than the James L. Brooks connection, the real link between the two shows is a man named Reza Badiya. As well as directing a number of third-season episodes of The Doris Day Show, he was the man responsible for creating the opening credits of The Mary Tyler Moore Show!

Very interesting information. How did you find this out? Is he listed in the MTM credits as the creator of the opening?

Originally Posted by ontheroof

I can't seem to find out who directed the credit sequences from TDDS. Season 1 looks to be, at least, photographed by the same guy who was the DP for the series (well, same shot-through-a-mattress close-ups on Doris, anyway). The season 2 credits seem to be less gauzy. Anyone have any info on who filmed any of these credits?

I would like to know as well. I think both of these openings are beautiful. The music, the photography, the images are all so brilliantly and beautifully put together. It's been over 30 years since I saw the credits for the later seasons, but I'm sure they're just as wonderful. The one thing that sticks out in my mind about the credits from the later seasons is a glamorous Doris coming down a spiraling staircase in her apartment in a flowing evening gown. At that time I had never seen a spiraling staircase so that fascinated me.

[ClassicTVGal]

Originally Posted by JaneTVFan

Yeah, I had heard that the hat toss was spontaneous. But I think it was the perfect thing for her to do because it reminds one of the tossing of a graduation cap. And in a sense, Mary was graduating and entering into real independence and life on her own and on her own terms.

Yes, and it became a classic thing and went into Television History!!

[USTVFanFromUK]

Didn't 'That Girl' have the first single working female on US television? That premiered in 1966.

[ontheroof]

Originally Posted by JaneTVFan

That Phyllis opening seems to me to be a takeoff on Mame.

I'd never thought of it, but you're right -- it's quite Mame-y. And I do love the "It sure isn't you" bit. Cloris Leachman is great, and her facial expressions are hilarious. (A great Phyllis quote/facial expression combo: "That was mother's news, Bess.")

Originally Posted by JaneTVFan

Very interesting information. How did you find this out? Is he listed in the MTM credits as the creator of the opening?

I think he is listed in the MTM closing credits, but I've also heard him talked about during one of the interviews on the Season 1 DVDs, and I've heard Mary talk about him in some interviews. Oh, and also he's discussed in the book "Love is All Around: The Making of TMTMS" (or whatever the book is called). His name is kind of distinctive, so it's stayed with me. Then when I was scrolling through an episode guide of TDDS, I noticed his name as director on a number of episodes -- I think he did 23.

Took a look at the closing credits for Season 1 of TDDS, and it lists Remi Martin as creating the opening credits. I assume then that the Season 2 DVDs will list the creator for that season's new credit sequence...

[JaneTVFan]

Originally Posted by USTVFanFromUK

Didn't 'That Girl' have the first single working female on US television? That premiered in 1966.

Yes, "That Girl" had the first UNMARRIED working female, but she was never single. She always had Donald by her side.

[gidgetgrape]

I believe Ann Sothern was first unmarried, working woman. She starred in "Private Secretary" in 1953.