Monty Python--a little overrated - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Vicki L. · 06-06-2005, 07:37 PM

Eric Idle, away from the other Pythons, has so little talent. Terry Jones acts like he's forcing himself to try to be funny. Benny Hill really was funniner than MP evr was.

japanesemark · 06-11-2005, 09:25 AM

Hi,
Benny Hill was a terrible programme , it wasnt comedy it was sexist slapstick, i think that anyone could have played the part of Benny Hill , anyone who looked like a fool or a dirty old man and someone who could make stupid facial gestures or remarks where as if you really looked at Monty Python and some other shows Eric Idle and the rest of the Python team did then would see British Comedy at one of its best , the shows were well written and well 'ACTED' not preformed , like a circus clown which was the case with Benny Hill , which is also the way typical American style comedy shows are.
The Python Team were very intelligent and skilled comedy actors and acted their roles very well, so well that for some people that was the only way they can be perceived and in other roles they played later in thier carrers they were still expected to be Pythons
i really worry when someone says they like Benny Hill , I worry very much ........ i can only assume the writer of the last post was either American or Canadian , as this will give some indication of their sense of 'Humour'
Mark

belladiva · 06-14-2005, 01:22 AM

I know everyone has their own opinions but it might also be the humor. Even when I watch it I don't find myself laughing out loud much, but I think it's funny. I think it's just that their sense of humor was different and dated. You either got it or you didn't. But then again I haven't really watched a lot of Benny Hill so I couldn't give my own opinion on that. Can't really sit through a lot of it but I don't think it's awful.

W.B. · 06-23-2005, 11:30 AM

With respect to the post from 'japanesemark' whose talking points apparently came from the P.C. brigade that has been ramming down the whole "Benny Hill bad" drumbeat for the last 20 or so years . . . I'd have to concur with 'Vicki L.' about Python being overrated, but more on the basis of historical evidence than the issue of talent (or lack of same) of the individual members. Consider:
* When they started, they were not exactly universally beloved, with the BBC attempting to kill them off in more ways than one (graveyard time slots, or time slots where not every region would air them). And that's not counting the censorship battles by the third series, due to their particular 'push-the-envelope' ethos which, according to many cultural critics, has plagued popular entertainment to this day.
* They were not exactly a ratings darling, either. In my research of JICTAR ratings during a trip to London in 1990, I found that Python, on its original 1969-74 airing, didn't make the Top 20 even once. Even the lowest-rated Benny Hill Show to make the Top 10 in the U.K. (Dec. 27, 1972, ranked 10th for the week ending Dec. 31, 1972 and seen in only 6.05 million households) was higher than the highest-rated Python (seen in an average of somewhat less than 5 million homes by the third series).
* They were almost entirely a media-driven show - or, to put it another way, it was one of the first cases of the news media dictating public taste in TV programs, telling everybody how good Python was and all that. The main critics who took to (and ran with) it were generally of same or similar educational background as the Python members (the most stand-out being Cambridge-educated Clive James, whose time there, as well as feminist writer Germaine Greer's, was contemporaneous with Eric Idle's). And it's instructive that the show's taking off in America was due not to commercial television where attempts to break it in flopped badly, but on taxpayer-funded PBS which has been accused in some circles of having a certain political bias - and it didn't seem to hurt from that perspective that Python was pushing what appeared to be a hidden political agenda behind all the silly walks, dead parrots, et al. (You can't tell me that they weren't promoting an agenda with their "Lumberjack Song.") No wonder why many in the entertainment and news media worship Python - the latter's ethos is pretty much in lockstep with the former's.
* The closed, country-club-style atmosphere that sprung forth. All the references to classical composers and trendy, "with-it" authors and filmmakers would play well with "Eastern establishment elite" and "effete snob" circles (per the words of Spiro T. Agnew), but didn't exactly resonate with the average person on the street.
* At certain points, they appeared extremely mean-spirited and strident (especially as coming from John Cleese and Graham Chapman), and that wasn't the type of attitude that would warm audiences over. That they meant for it to be that way didn't exactly assuage anybody either. Their "Pepperpots" were also especially shrill, compared with Mr. Hill's forays in drag.
I could envision an American equivalent as being a comedy troupe where the key members were educated at Harvard and Yale, with one member a part of the infamous "Skull and Bones" clique from which Bushes 41 and 43, Kerry, and generations of families such as Rockefeller and Harriman emerged.

Small wonder that, when Hill's show was first syndicated to America in 1979, it took off like a rocket: its audience base, and the show's overall bent, was more populist-oriented than the snob-worshipped Python, which tells me, at least, that the American Python cult was more a case of it being the only British comedy available in the U.S. to that point. Indeed, I've found it was the "snob factor" that explained as much about the antipathy towards Mr. Hill as anything else. After all, since Benny wasn't Oxbridge-educated, therefore he, his show and his audience must be somehow "morally and/or intellectually inferior." Besides, much of the Benny-haters I met in England were almost heavily biased towards Python and their ilk (i.e. The Young Ones).

To be sure, I'm more preferential towards the comedy aspect of Benny Hill (the parodies of TV shows, films and commercials; the blooper segments; the impersonations) than the T&A factor that marred his shows from 1979 on (and don't get me started about the segments with the children of key cast and crew). I also liked some of the musical numbers from guests on the shows pre-1978 (as on A&E's Complete and Unadulterated sets).

japanesemark · 06-24-2005, 02:36 AM

Hi,
a well expressed point of veiw from W.B. actually a lot of interesting points, but as per usually I have to disagree with one point . I am not a very PC type of person and an example of this is my favourite TV show is Love thy Neighbour which is another one of the shows that will never be shown in the UK because of all the racial jokes in it. So this isnt why I cant stand Benny Hill . I would also like to say that there are a few points that make me decide if I find something funny or not. One of them can be seen in a great comedian such as Tommy Cooper who did very little but said a lot and said it in a way that was funny,not making silly faces but by the content and the choice of words which is the same for Dave Allen, but cant be said about Benny Hill.
Benny Hill was slapstick and not really comedy and when he 'appeared' in shows , I cant say acting , it is easy to see that he has very little talent. If you like this type of show then thats your personal choice and the shows are well written for that type of show which in another way because they were well written it really means that his routines could have been done by any 'Preformer' and had the same amount of laughs and it isnt Benny Hill that is funny or has Talent but the writers
Mark

radioman970 · 06-24-2005, 07:50 AM

MP: Innovative. Comedy that didn't follow set guidelines. Sometimes the sole purpose seemed to be what they could get away with. Endlessly quotable. Legendary comedy. Besides Star Trek it's my favorite TV show of all time. The films were classics!

But...you guys go ahead and pick it apart. Just stressing my own feelings.

radioman970 · 06-24-2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by japanesemark

Hi,
Benny Hill was a terrible programme

No it wasn't.

I feel I've won this argument.

howilu · 09-30-2005, 01:44 AM

I have always enjoyed Monty Python. It's well written, well acted and the animation is so unique. The Pythons show how they can play most of the characters, even a lot of the female roles in drag. Despite the title having no contextual meaning, it's a comedy classic that's not overrated.

solo · 10-03-2005, 08:39 AM

I like them both, but don't think they're comparable. MP was cutting edge, Benny hill was titillating (what's wrong with that) but also a very funny, i loved his play on word's a couple that spring to mind are the potato clock sketch,
The jist of it is, he says he's got a potato clock, the guy he's talking to say's you've got a potato clock? He says no i got up at 8oclock. I don't know if that work's with the american pronunciation of potato

Another was, irish stew,( i arrest you ) i.e. irish stew in the name of the law.

solo · 10-03-2005, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by japanesemark

Hi,
a well expressed point of veiw from W.B. actually a lot of interesting points, but as per usually I have to disagree with one point . I am not a very PC type of person and an example of this is my favourite TV show is Love thy Neighbour which is another one of the shows that will never be shown in the UK because of all the racial jokes in it. So this isnt why I cant stand Benny Hill . I would also like to say that there are a few points that make me decide if I find something funny or not. One of them can be seen in a great comedian such as Tommy Cooper who did very little but said a lot and said it in a way that was funny,not making silly faces but by the content and the choice of words which is the same for Dave Allen, but cant be said about Benny Hill.
Benny Hill was slapstick and not really comedy and when he 'appeared' in shows , I cant say acting , it is easy to see that he has very little talent. If you like this type of show then thats your personal choice and the shows are well written for that type of show which in another way because they were well written it really means that his routines could have been done by any 'Preformer' and had the same amount of laughs and it isnt Benny Hill that is funny or has Talent but the writers
Mark

Hi. Think you'll find Love thy Neighbour was a uk sit com first.

W.B. · 03-04-2006, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solo

Hi. Think you'll find Love thy Neighbour was a uk sit com first.

Oh, it was, in the early 1970's . . . but the point is, thanks to the P.C. police, you'll likely never see repeats of that show ever in Britain. Nor (I think) Mind Your Language.

As for Mr. Hill's "potato clock / 8:00" bit, he was impersonating someone with a very bad cold therein.

And finally, as for the "sexism" bit: Any of you seen, on Python, the "visitors" sketch (from Episode #9, "The Ant - An Introduction") lately? Or the "Dirty Vicar"? In both cases, there was the kind of sexism that even Benny would've frowned at. Especially, in the former bit, the conduct of John Cleese's loutish, amoral "Mr. Equatol" towards Carol Cleveland's character. Funny how Ben Elton had nothing to say about the correlation between that sketch and the possible link to incidences of rape in England at the time, as he was so quick to do with Mr. Hill's show. . . . or do Python get a free pass because of their "intellectual" reputation, eh?

And finally, it should be noted that on TBHS, Benny Hill was the writer.

EdwardHitler · 03-08-2006, 10:25 PM

Python for us US-ers was the first stuff we got from the land of great comedy, it definately influenced me, watching it for the first time at probably 12 or so and loving instantly. Benny Hill was on soon after/about the same time but I couldn't get into it, just not my cup of tea, I love the bizarre BritComs (been getting into Little Britain lately, it's hads me in tears, just brilliant).

W.B. · 10-30-2006, 10:11 PM

Something else on Python which didn't seem to faze the Benny-haters: The bit (in the same episode with the "Dead Parrot" sketch) where a man - er, art critic, was strangling his wife on an open outdoor field - wonder to what that extent that induced violence against women. At the very least, it didn't faze that crowd enough for them to call for Python to be taken off the air completely, as they had done with Mr. Hill.

And then there was the bit from the "Interesting People" sketch where a man (Graham Chapman) takes a cat by the tail and then hurls it into a bucket. Wonder how many people were "inspired" to do such so-called "harmless pranks" as putting his/her roommate's pet cat into a washing machine (the type you see in laundromats). And to those who think that that bit was "no big deal": Just imagine if it were your cat (or dog, or other pet) all this was being done to.

The double standard reeks, I.M.H.O.

bry · 11-02-2006, 08:14 PM

monty python was more stupid than it was funny, to me. like jim carey...too stupid for me..yet the world thinks he's/it's actually funny.
there are big differences between funny and stupid.
i'm not saying that MP is a bad show, i'm just saying i thought it was way below juvenile...

Famous Mortimer · 11-13-2006, 11:00 AM

W.B. is presumably some sort of troll. Firstly, you say how unpopular Python was, then say their sketches apparently influenced a mass wave of woman-strangling and cat-drowning in the UK in the 1970s. Which one is it? Benny Hill's sketches may have been hilarious, but almost without fail women in his shows were nothing more than prettily dressed objects to leer at, or ugly old harridans who shouted at their husbands. I find it sad that people in the 21st century are defending that. Python mocked sexism and homophobia with their sketches, and for you not to get that means you really don't understand it (or are deliberately misunderstanding it to make a point). The thing about cats being thrown in laundromats- show me some evidence this happened, or stop making completely spurious allegations.

Then you make an identical mistake when talking about Python. You first say it was forced on America via PBS, which has a left-wing political bias. You then compare the Pythons to the Bush brothers, who most definitely don't have a left-wing political bias. Which one is it?

You then draw an incorrect conclusion from irrelevant data. Benny Hill had better viewing figures than Monty Python, therefore Benny Hill was better (otherwise why mention it?). Their terrible timeslot troubles are mentioned but you don't think that had anything to do with their lower ratings. By your line of reasoning, "Titanic" is the best film ever made and "Citizen Kane" was some piece of minor left-wing trash produced in the 1940s. "Monty Python's Life Of Brian" recently won two separate polls in the UK to find the best comedy film of all time. So that would tend to blow your "the Pythons weren't popular" argument out of the water, wouldn't it?

If you don't like Python, then fair enough. Some of their sketches were a bit off the mark, but most of what they did was brilliant, clever, mocked those in power, mocked sexism and homophobia and most importantly made a lot of people laugh. Benny Hill is rightly consigned to the history books- there's a good reason why not even the channels which show any crap old TV they can get their hands on don't show Benny Hill any more.

06-06-2005, 07:37 PM	#1
Vicki L. Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 158	Monty Python--a little overrated Eric Idle, away from the other Pythons, has so little talent. Terry Jones acts like he's forcing himself to try to be funny. Benny Hill really was funniner than MP evr was.

06-11-2005, 09:25 AM	#2
japanesemark Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 08, 2004 Location: Japan Posts: 43	Monty Python Hi, Benny Hill was a terrible programme , it wasnt comedy it was sexist slapstick, i think that anyone could have played the part of Benny Hill , anyone who looked like a fool or a dirty old man and someone who could make stupid facial gestures or remarks where as if you really looked at Monty Python and some other shows Eric Idle and the rest of the Python team did then would see British Comedy at one of its best , the shows were well written and well 'ACTED' not preformed , like a circus clown which was the case with Benny Hill , which is also the way typical American style comedy shows are. The Python Team were very intelligent and skilled comedy actors and acted their roles very well, so well that for some people that was the only way they can be perceived and in other roles they played later in thier carrers they were still expected to be Pythons i really worry when someone says they like Benny Hill , I worry very much ........ i can only assume the writer of the last post was either American or Canadian , as this will give some indication of their sense of 'Humour' Mark

06-14-2005, 01:22 AM	#3
belladiva Pop Culture Junkie Occasional Poster Join Date: Jun 13, 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 37	I know everyone has their own opinions but it might also be the humor. Even when I watch it I don't find myself laughing out loud much, but I think it's funny. I think it's just that their sense of humor was different and dated. You either got it or you didn't. But then again I haven't really watched a lot of Benny Hill so I couldn't give my own opinion on that. Can't really sit through a lot of it but I don't think it's awful.
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06-23-2005, 11:30 AM	#4
W.B. Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 23, 2005 Location: New York, New York, USA Posts: 389	With respect to the post from 'japanesemark' whose talking points apparently came from the P.C. brigade that has been ramming down the whole "Benny Hill bad" drumbeat for the last 20 or so years . . . I'd have to concur with 'Vicki L.' about Python being overrated, but more on the basis of historical evidence than the issue of talent (or lack of same) of the individual members. Consider: * When they started, they were not exactly universally beloved, with the BBC attempting to kill them off in more ways than one (graveyard time slots, or time slots where not every region would air them). And that's not counting the censorship battles by the third series, due to their particular 'push-the-envelope' ethos which, according to many cultural critics, has plagued popular entertainment to this day. * They were not exactly a ratings darling, either. In my research of JICTAR ratings during a trip to London in 1990, I found that Python, on its original 1969-74 airing, didn't make the Top 20 even once. Even the lowest-rated Benny Hill Show to make the Top 10 in the U.K. (Dec. 27, 1972, ranked 10th for the week ending Dec. 31, 1972 and seen in only 6.05 million households) was higher than the highest-rated Python (seen in an average of somewhat less than 5 million homes by the third series). * They were almost entirely a media-driven show - or, to put it another way, it was one of the first cases of the news media dictating public taste in TV programs, telling everybody how good Python was and all that. The main critics who took to (and ran with) it were generally of same or similar educational background as the Python members (the most stand-out being Cambridge-educated Clive James, whose time there, as well as feminist writer Germaine Greer's, was contemporaneous with Eric Idle's). And it's instructive that the show's taking off in America was due not to commercial television where attempts to break it in flopped badly, but on taxpayer-funded PBS which has been accused in some circles of having a certain political bias - and it didn't seem to hurt from that perspective that Python was pushing what appeared to be a hidden political agenda behind all the silly walks, dead parrots, et al. (You can't tell me that they weren't promoting an agenda with their "Lumberjack Song.") No wonder why many in the entertainment and news media worship Python - the latter's ethos is pretty much in lockstep with the former's. * The closed, country-club-style atmosphere that sprung forth. All the references to classical composers and trendy, "with-it" authors and filmmakers would play well with "Eastern establishment elite" and "effete snob" circles (per the words of Spiro T. Agnew), but didn't exactly resonate with the average person on the street. * At certain points, they appeared extremely mean-spirited and strident (especially as coming from John Cleese and Graham Chapman), and that wasn't the type of attitude that would warm audiences over. That they *meant* for it to be that way didn't exactly assuage anybody either. Their "Pepperpots" were also especially shrill, compared with Mr. Hill's forays in drag. I could envision an American equivalent as being a comedy troupe where the key members were educated at Harvard and Yale, with one member a part of the infamous "Skull and Bones" clique from which Bushes 41 and 43, Kerry, and generations of families such as Rockefeller and Harriman emerged. Small wonder that, when Hill's show was first syndicated to America in 1979, it took off like a rocket: its audience base, and the show's overall bent, was more populist-oriented than the snob-worshipped Python, which tells me, at least, that the American Python cult was more a case of it being the only British comedy available in the U.S. to that point. Indeed, I've found it was the "snob factor" that explained as much about the antipathy towards Mr. Hill as anything else. After all, since Benny *wasn't* Oxbridge-educated, therefore he, his show and his audience must be somehow "morally and/or intellectually inferior." Besides, much of the Benny-haters I met in England were almost heavily biased towards Python and their ilk (i.e. The Young Ones). To be sure, I'm more preferential towards the comedy aspect of Benny Hill (the parodies of TV shows, films and commercials; the blooper segments; the impersonations) than the T&A factor that marred his shows from 1979 on (and don't get me started about the segments with the children of key cast and crew). I also liked some of the musical numbers from guests on the shows pre-1978 (as on A&E's Complete and Unadulterated sets).
	Last edited by W.B.; 06-23-2005 at 04:46 PM.

06-24-2005, 07:50 AM	#6
radioman970 Be a Bobby! Occasional Poster Join Date: Jun 22, 2005 Posts: 26	MP: Innovative. Comedy that didn't follow set guidelines. Sometimes the sole purpose seemed to be what they could get away with. Endlessly quotable. Legendary comedy. Besides Star Trek it's my favorite TV show of all time. The films were classics! But...you guys go ahead and pick it apart. Just stressing my own feelings.
	__________________ Live your life as if you were the 7th Brady kid. You'll never frown because it'll always be a Sunshine Day! - radioman970

06-24-2005, 02:36 AM	#5
japanesemark Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 08, 2004 Location: Japan Posts: 43	Hi, a well expressed point of veiw from W.B. actually a lot of interesting points, but as per usually I have to disagree with one point . I am not a very PC type of person and an example of this is my favourite TV show is Love thy Neighbour which is another one of the shows that will never be shown in the UK because of all the racial jokes in it. So this isnt why I cant stand Benny Hill . I would also like to say that there are a few points that make me decide if I find something funny or not. One of them can be seen in a great comedian such as Tommy Cooper who did very little but said a lot and said it in a way that was funny,not making silly faces but by the content and the choice of words which is the same for Dave Allen, but cant be said about Benny Hill. Benny Hill was slapstick and not really comedy and when he 'appeared' in shows , I cant say acting , it is easy to see that he has very little talent. If you like this type of show then thats your personal choice and the shows are well written for that type of show which in another way because they were well written it really means that his routines could have been done by any 'Preformer' and had the same amount of laughs and it isnt Benny Hill that is funny or has Talent but the writers Mark

09-30-2005, 01:44 AM	#8
howilu Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 20, 2003 Location: St. Louis Park, MN Posts: 1,962	I have always enjoyed Monty Python. It's well written, well acted and the animation is so unique. The Pythons show how they can play most of the characters, even a lot of the female roles in drag. Despite the title having no contextual meaning, it's a comedy classic that's not overrated.

10-03-2005, 08:39 AM	#9
solo Member Forum Hawk Join Date: Oct 03, 2005 Posts: 3	I like them both, but don't think they're comparable. MP was cutting edge, Benny hill was titillating (what's wrong with that) but also a very funny, i loved his play on word's a couple that spring to mind are the potato clock sketch, The jist of it is, he says he's got a potato clock, the guy he's talking to say's you've got a potato clock? He says no i got up at 8oclock. I don't know if that work's with the american pronunciation of potato Another was, irish stew,( i arrest you ) i.e. irish stew in the name of the law.

03-08-2006, 10:25 PM	#12
EdwardHitler Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 12, 2004 Posts: 64	Python for us US-ers was the first stuff we got from the land of great comedy, it definately influenced me, watching it for the first time at probably 12 or so and loving instantly. Benny Hill was on soon after/about the same time but I couldn't get into it, just not my cup of tea, I love the bizarre BritComs (been getting into Little Britain lately, it's hads me in tears, just brilliant).

10-30-2006, 10:11 PM	#13
W.B. Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 23, 2005 Location: New York, New York, USA Posts: 389	Something else on Python which didn't seem to faze the Benny-haters: The bit (in the same episode with the "Dead Parrot" sketch) where a man - er, art critic, was strangling his wife on an open outdoor field - wonder to what that extent *that* induced violence against women. At the very least, it didn't faze that crowd enough for them to call for Python to be taken off the air completely, as they had done with Mr. Hill. And then there was the bit from the "Interesting People" sketch where a man (Graham Chapman) takes a cat by the tail and then hurls it into a bucket. Wonder how many people were "inspired" to do such so-called "harmless pranks" as putting his/her roommate's pet cat into a washing machine (the type you see in laundromats). And to those who think that that bit was "no big deal": Just imagine if it were your cat (or dog, or other pet) all this was being done to. The double standard reeks, I.M.H.O.

11-02-2006, 08:14 PM	#14
bry Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 21, 2003 Location: n.c. Posts: 819	monty python was more stupid than it was funny, to me. like jim carey...too stupid for me..yet the world thinks he's/it's actually funny. there are big differences between funny and stupid. i'm not saying that MP is a bad show, i'm just saying i thought it was way below juvenile...
	__________________ that's Y-A-T-E-S.

11-13-2006, 11:00 AM	#15
Famous Mortimer Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 05, 2006 Location: UK Posts: 100	W.B. is presumably some sort of troll. Firstly, you say how unpopular Python was, then say their sketches apparently influenced a mass wave of woman-strangling and cat-drowning in the UK in the 1970s. Which one is it? Benny Hill's sketches may have been hilarious, but almost without fail women in his shows were nothing more than prettily dressed objects to leer at, or ugly old harridans who shouted at their husbands. I find it sad that people in the 21st century are defending that. Python mocked sexism and homophobia with their sketches, and for you not to get that means you really don't understand it (or are deliberately misunderstanding it to make a point). The thing about cats being thrown in laundromats- show me some evidence this happened, or stop making completely spurious allegations. Then you make an identical mistake when talking about Python. You first say it was forced on America via PBS, which has a left-wing political bias. You then compare the Pythons to the Bush brothers, who most definitely don't have a left-wing political bias. Which one is it? You then draw an incorrect conclusion from irrelevant data. Benny Hill had better viewing figures than Monty Python, therefore Benny Hill was better (otherwise why mention it?). Their terrible timeslot troubles are mentioned but you don't think that had anything to do with their lower ratings. By your line of reasoning, "Titanic" is the best film ever made and "Citizen Kane" was some piece of minor left-wing trash produced in the 1940s. "Monty Python's Life Of Brian" recently won two separate polls in the UK to find the best comedy film of all time. So that would tend to blow your "the Pythons weren't popular" argument out of the water, wouldn't it? If you don't like Python, then fair enough. Some of their sketches were a bit off the mark, but most of what they did was brilliant, clever, mocked those in power, mocked sexism and homophobia and most importantly made a lot of people laugh. Benny Hill is rightly consigned to the history books- there's a good reason why not even the channels which show any crap old TV they can get their hands on don't show Benny Hill any more.