Why Childless? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Janice · 10-15-2001, 11:06 PM

I don't know if this has already been discussed--but did Ralph or Alice ever make a reference as to why they had no children or if they planned on having any?
I think the show was fantastic and have no problem with no kids on the show, but was just wondering if it was ever addressed.

Jimbo · 10-20-2001, 06:54 PM

JanLady617: I don't know the answer to your question, but I can offer some speculation: My guess is that Jackie Gleason did not enjoy working with kids. I can't think of any project he was involved in where a child played a prominent role. Also, I just don't think the show would have worked as well if the Kramdens had children (I think the viewers, and maybe the censors, would have been a lot less tolerant of their "argument" scenes if a child was in the room with them). The closest they came to addressing this issue (in my opinion) was during one of the Honeymooner "Specials" that was broadcast during the 1970s. In one of these programs, the plot revolved around Ralph's mistaken belief that Alice was pregnant (although they were both old enough to be grandparents at that point in their careers!).

Janice · 10-21-2001, 12:25 AM

As usual, you make great sense Jimbo. I know Jackie Gleason refused to rehearse, so it does stand to reason that he wouldn't want to work with kids.
I agree also that the censors would've had a problem with Ralph and Alice's constant bickering in front of children.
Thanks Jimbo, for coming up with solutions to my brain teasers. I'll get to work on the next one, lol.

Jimbo · 10-21-2001, 06:52 PM

Thank you for the compliment, JanLady! I look forward to your next post.

Chrissy · 10-31-2001, 10:13 PM

Off the top of my head, I know that Jackie Gleason did work with that one little girl in the movie Gigot.

Jimbo · 11-05-2001, 09:35 PM

Chrissy: Good catch! I had forgotten about "Gigot".

(As Ralph would say, I feel like a real Moax!)

TVLanFan · 11-22-2001, 11:42 AM

Didn't Gleason also star in "Papa's Delicate Condition"? Seemed to me (I've only seen it once) that a little girl had a prominent role in that picture (or maybe she just had some memorable scenes)...

At any rate, I'm sure that working with children on a movie set is quite different from working with them on a live TV show like the Honeymooners.

Richard · 11-23-2001, 05:04 PM

The basic reason why Ralph and Alice never had any children is that the title implies that this long-wed couple are discovering all over again how much they love each other-and having a baby would imply too much of a statement that they do love each other-and the show wouldn't really be the same.Even when there was a show where they tried to adopt a baby girl,it was a foregone conclusion that they weren't going to keep the baby.

Or I could say that Ralph's bus-driver income couldn't support a child.

Or I could say that Norton didn't leave the Kramdens alone enough.

------------------
Richard Ranke

NCVARick · 12-16-2001, 03:03 AM

I suspect the reason Ralph and Alice didn't have children is that everyone realized that would ruin the dynamic of the show. It was one thing for Ralph to be yelling and screaming at Alice and Ed. But he couldn't get away with that with a little kid. He would have to really soften up, which means he would no longer be Ralph Kramden (kind of like what happened to Rhoda when she got married; she was no longer Rhoda and the show fell apart). If Ralph kept that hard edge around a child, I don't think the audience would accept it; they wouldn't be able to find the humor in Ralph yelling at a kid the way he yells at adults, who can take the yelling and can yell right back (Imagine: "One of these days, kid, POW, right in the kisser!" Kid runs off crying. Not funny.) The kid would have to be an absolute brat to justify Ralph's yelling. But if the kid were as bad as that, then the viewers wouldn't like the child; they wouldn't want to watch that horrible brat week after week, and wouldn't accept someone as nice as Alice having to put up with such a terrible brat. (Think of all the trouble-making kids in sitcoms who were regular characters: Dennis the Menace, for example. He caused trouble not because he was a brat -- he was actually a lovable kid -- but because he was a totally innocent, clueless kid who was oblivious to the trouble he was causing.)

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard
The basic reason why Ralph and Alice never had any children is that the title implies that this long-wed couple are discovering all over again how much they love each other-and having a baby would imply too much of a statement that they do love each other-and the show wouldn't really be the same.Even when there was a show where they tried to adopt a baby girl,it was a foregone conclusion that they weren't going to keep the baby.

Or I could say that Ralph's bus-driver income couldn't support a child.

Or I could say that Norton didn't leave the Kramdens alone enough.

------------------
Richard Ranke

10-15-2001, 11:06 PM	#1
Janice Retired Admin - Hollywood Swingin' Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 03, 2001 Location: Beantown Posts: 36,388	Why Childless? I don't know if this has already been discussed--but did Ralph or Alice ever make a reference as to why they had no children or if they planned on having any? I think the show was fantastic and have no problem with no kids on the show, but was just wondering if it was ever addressed.

10-20-2001, 06:54 PM	#2
Jimbo Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 29, 2001 Location: United States of America-One Nation UNDER GOD! Posts: 471	JanLady617: I don't know the answer to your question, but I can offer some speculation: My guess is that Jackie Gleason did not enjoy working with kids. I can't think of any project he was involved in where a child played a prominent role. Also, I just don't think the show would have worked as well if the Kramdens had children (I think the viewers, and maybe the censors, would have been a lot less tolerant of their "argument" scenes if a child was in the room with them). The closest they came to addressing this issue (in my opinion) was during one of the Honeymooner "Specials" that was broadcast during the 1970s. In one of these programs, the plot revolved around Ralph's mistaken belief that Alice was pregnant (although they were both old enough to be grandparents at that point in their careers!).

10-21-2001, 12:25 AM	#3
Janice Retired Admin - Hollywood Swingin' Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 03, 2001 Location: Beantown Posts: 36,388	As usual, you make great sense Jimbo. I know Jackie Gleason refused to rehearse, so it does stand to reason that he wouldn't want to work with kids. I agree also that the censors would've had a problem with Ralph and Alice's constant bickering in front of children. Thanks Jimbo, for coming up with solutions to my brain teasers. I'll get to work on the next one, lol.

10-21-2001, 06:52 PM	#4
Jimbo Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 29, 2001 Location: United States of America-One Nation UNDER GOD! Posts: 471	Thank you for the compliment, JanLady! I look forward to your next post.

10-31-2001, 10:13 PM	#5
Chrissy Member Forum Hawk Join Date: Nov 06, 2001 Posts: 3	Off the top of my head, I know that Jackie Gleason did work with that one little girl in the movie Gigot.

11-05-2001, 09:35 PM	#6
Jimbo Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 29, 2001 Location: United States of America-One Nation UNDER GOD! Posts: 471	Chrissy: Good catch! I had forgotten about "Gigot". (As Ralph would say, I feel like a real Moax!)

11-22-2001, 11:42 AM	#7
TVLanFan Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 31, 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 199	Didn't Gleason also star in "Papa's Delicate Condition"? Seemed to me (I've only seen it once) that a little girl had a prominent role in that picture (or maybe she just had some memorable scenes)... At any rate, I'm sure that working with children on a movie set is quite different from working with them on a live TV show like the Honeymooners.

11-23-2001, 05:04 PM	#8
Richard Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 01, 2000 Location: Cleveland,Ohio-USA Posts: 352	The basic reason why Ralph and Alice never had any children is that the title implies that this long-wed couple are discovering all over again how much they love each other-and having a baby would imply too much of a statement that they do love each other-and the show wouldn't really be the same.Even when there was a show where they tried to adopt a baby girl,it was a foregone conclusion that they weren't going to keep the baby. Or I could say that Ralph's bus-driver income couldn't support a child. Or I could say that Norton didn't leave the Kramdens alone enough. ------------------ Richard Ranke