Female teen suicide

[rerungirl]

The recent discussion about teen suicide episodes made me recall an early case involving a teenage girl who supposedly shot and killed herself in front of her boyfriend's house. I only saw this segment one time (when UM was still on NBC) and don't know if it has ever been shown on Lifetime. As I remember it, the girl had been arguing with her boyfriend then went outside and shot herself by her car. The girl's parents were convinced someone else pulled the trigger. Does anyone else remember this case?

[crystaldawn]

Hi! Yes I remember that one. Her name was Rae Ann Mosser. I tend to think she committed suicide. I know the parents didn't believe that, but it seemed more logical than anything else they brought up in the segment. She had just had a confrontation with her boyfriend who apparently didn't want to see her anymore and according to him she said "what do I have to do to prove my love for you, kill myself?" Then she just happens to be found shot just a house or so away from her boyfriends soon after making that comment. What are your thoughts on this case guys?

[Mr. Fuji]

Well, that's what the boyfriend said. I tend to believe she didn't, since I remember that expert holding the rifle she supposedly shot herself with and making it virtually impossible for her to have held that rifle to her head and pulled the trigger, since her arms weren't long enough. I think they actually changed the cause of death from suicide to unknown, if memory serves me.

[mercy1825]

If I recall correctly, the shotgun was lying on the hood of the car? Why would a murderer leave the murder weapon on the hood of the victims car? Seems ridculous to me. Also, if it was a murder, it would most likely have been spur of the moment, opportunity crime. A killer after shooting someone, wouldnt have had time to think up scenerios regarding making it look like suicide, and leave the rifle laying like that. They would have quickly attempted to discard the murder weapon. I do believe it was suicide.

[Todd Mueller]

Weird... I was just thinking about this case the other day. It was very good and I don't think it has ever been on Lifetime.

I agree that the way they said she killed herself is bunk. Her arms weren't anywhere near long enough to have pulled the trigger with the gun to her head.

I have no idea what happened but if it was suicide she needed help doing it (yes, I know that makes it murder).

[CrushedVelvet]

They showed this case within the last few weeks. Here is my question: can a person shoot themselves with a shotgun or not??? Why is this so hard to determine? I have no experience w/ guns so I have no opinion other than wondering why its so hard to say yes or no wether it can be done. If she DID shoot herself its possible the gun landed on the car after the blast. Weirder things have happened...anyone have any info on the shotgun theory and suicides? Wasnt this the same argument in Kurt Cobains death?

[mozartpc27]

I just watched this case on Crystaldawn's collection, volume 3, and I don't know. Rae Ann's parents had two different independent forensics experts evaluate the autopsy records and the crime scene information, one of whom was the state medical examiner in North Carolina at the time, and both concluded that, contrary to what the Roanoke city autopsy had reported, the wound was NOT a contact wound. Given the size of the gun, I would have to believe that any self-inflicted wound would have to be a contact wound. This leads me to conclude it was murder.

However, the only possible suspect, it would seem, is the boyfriend, whose name is never given in the segment. It would be totally unbelievable to think that someone was waiting for her out in the bushes, only to shoot her with a shotgun, leave it on the boyfriend's car, and then jet. It was mentioned in the segment that 3 witnesses heard Rae Ann saying she would kill herself moments before the gun was fired. I'd like to know who those three witnesses were (presumably one was the boyfriend himself). The other piece of evidence that I would think indispensible here, but which the segment never gives, is anything about where the gun came from. I suspect this is because it belonged to the victim or her family, and so would tend to make the case less mysterious, and hence less interesting.

I'm not sure what to think, to be honest. If it's not a contact wound, I don't see how it could be self-inflicted to more or less the center of her chest. However, if the gun belonged to her or her family --- if, in other words, she brought it herself to the scene --- it would be hard to imagine that she was not the one who ultimately used it to end her own life. I still think it's possible the boyfriend did it (if you watch the segment closely, it is implied, at any rate, that the police respond to the sound of a gun shot in the area --- in other words, they did not respond to a phone call from anyone; it seems to me if it were my girlfriend who had just threatened suicide at the top of her lungs, and then moments later I heard the gun shot, that I would have called the police). Tough case.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

I tend to think that it was foul play. I need to watch the segment again to confirm this, but I thought that the angle the bullet entered Rae Ann didn't match with the evidence... something about Rae Ann's arms being too short to pull it off. I've heard of cases where people have pulled the trigger of a shotgun with their toes, but I don't think it was a question in this case...

[kadrmas15]

I personally dont think that Rae Ann Mossor killed herself. I mean okay, lets say for a minute that she really did fire that shotgun and killed herself (even though her arms werent long enough) how could the gun fall on the trunk of the car without falling to the ground? I just c ant believe the gun wouldnt fall to the ground if she had actually shot herself. She did have powder burns I believe but they werent in the same way they would be had she pulled the trigger, I think the forensic expert said this makes it more likely that she was trying to grab the gun away from someone when they fired it. Also how her car doors were open and the car running with the stereo blaring. I mean what did she do, start up her car, turn on the stereo and then suddenly think "gee I better kill myself." It just doesnt make sense. Also that gun, was it registered to her or her parents? Where did it come from? I think UM left out some stuff but I also think the Roanoke Police botched this pretty good by jumping to the suicide conclusion almost immediately and refusing to change their minds, it just reeked of a cover up. Rae Ann was planning on joining the Navy according to the segment and she just had a lot of things going for her and she wanted to do in her life.

[mozartpc27]

Yes, these are the same reasons I was thinking there was a good chance it was murder myself, although the fact that the UM segment never mentions anything about the gun --- where it came from, who it was registered to, etc. --- makes me wonder. I know UM wants to make things seem mysterious, and I think sometimes they can be a little overzealous, trying to make things look more mysterious than they really are. If that gun belonged to Rae Ann or her family, it makes it a heck of a lot more likely that she killed herself, somehow.

I think LooksLikeCRicci's point about the possibility she used her foot to fire the gun is an interesting one: this would explain, perhaps, why she held the barrel of the gun, as kadrmas15 reminded us. If she discovered her arms were not long enough to pull the trigger, she may have decided to rest the gun on the trunk of her car, then try to use her foot to pull the trigger. In order to steady the gun, she held the barrel firmly in front of her while she attempted this move. This scenario, I think, would account for the crime scene, except for one thing: if she used her foot to pull the trigger, wouldn't she have had to take one of her shoes off? If the body was found with both shoes on (and I don't remember any mention of that being the case), then this scenario, I think, goes down the tubes.

[crystaldawn]

Well I'll go against the norm here because initially I thought Rae Ann was murdered but in the times I've seen this segment over the years I now tend to think she killed herself. The fact that UM didn't make a point to mention who the gun belonged to makes me think it probably belonged to her or her parents. After all that would be something UM would mention if it was unknown who the gun belonged to. It seemed to be a fairly populated street as far as houses go and if there were some sort of altercation out in the road by her car surely the neighbors would have heard something and told police. She was upset that her boyfriend no longer wanted to see her and even made the comment about killing herself (the boyfriend claimed). She probably could have rigged up the shotgun to kill herself which would explain why it wasn't a contact wound. After all if the gun did belong to her family and Rae Ann was carrying it around in her car that goes to the fact that suicide could have been something she was contamplating. I mean who would keep a shotgun in a car for protection? In this case it just seems easier to believe that Rae Ann was depressed because of her breakup and whatever else and decided to end her life than that someone happened to confront her that night, shot her with their gun and than left the gun there and fled.

[mozartpc27]

I agree that the idea that just anyone shot Rae Ann is highly suspect; if it was a murder, there is really only one viable candidate: her boyfriend. Perhaps this, more than any other reason, is why it was ruled a suicide. If the police had some information not presented in the UM segment that would positively rule out the boyfriend's involvement, then it seems unlikely that her death was anything other than suicide.

[DarkDante]

This is the case that inspired me to look at UM a lot differently - Initially I believed that Rae Ann Mosser was murdered and that her parents were the victims of some huge injustice. But I actually began to talk to Crystaldawn about this and she caused me to see this case in a much more logical fashion.

Rae Ann's mother's big reason for her daughter not being able to commit suicide was "Rae had too much of my temperment to commit suicide" - when looked at closely that statement makes little or no sense. We all know that when people are upset at something or someone they behave in ways that their friends and family would've thought impossible and thats what happened here.

There is no chance in my mind that after Rae threatened to kill herself to her former boyfriend that some strangers crept out of the darkness, accosted her in her car (which was still parked only a few feet away from her BF's home) got the shotgun that was conveinetly in the back seat and shot her.

I highly doubt the boyfriend had anything to do with Rae Ann's death because as far as we know he has no known motive to kill her. He didn't want anything to do with her anymore and kicked her to the curb. Now if there is a possibility that Rae Ann was going to reveal some information to some other people about her BF that he didn't want others to know - that would be a motive - But that is just speculation at best.

So what we have is a girl who according to the last person who saw her alive, was heartbroken, in hysterics, threatening to kill herself winding up shot to death (with a gun that just happened to be in the back seat of her vehicle) just moments after a heated argument with her former BF.

It sounds to me, that Rae Ann Mosser made the threat to kill herself, was angry enough at her boyfriend to carry it out, was not in her right mind at the time due to being extremely emotional and in a desperate emotional act decided to end her life as a final gesture to her former BF so he'd feel sorry for giving her the push.

[mozartpc27]

Originally Posted by DarkDante

This is the case that inspired me to look at UM a lot differently - Initially I believed that Rae Ann Mosser was murdered and that her parents were the victims of some huge injustice. But I actually began to talk to Crystaldawn about this and she caused me to see this case in a much more logical fashion.

Rae Ann's mother's big reason for her daughter not being able to commit suicide was "Rae had too much of my temperment to commit suicide" - when looked at closely that statement makes little or no sense. We all know that when people are upset at something or someone they behave in ways that their friends and family would've thought impossible and thats what happened here.

There is no chance in my mind that after Rae threatened to kill herself to her former boyfriend that some strangers crept out of the darkness, accosted her in her car (which was still parked only a few feet away from her BF's home) got the shotgun that was conveinetly in the back seat and shot her.

I highly doubt the boyfriend had anything to do with Rae Ann's death because as far as we know he has no known motive to kill her. He didn't want anything to do with her anymore and kicked her to the curb. Now if there is a possibility that Rae Ann was going to reveal some information to some other people about her BF that he didn't want others to know - that would be a motive - But that is just speculation at best.

So what we have is a girl who according to the last person who saw her alive, was heartbroken, in hysterics, threatening to kill herself winding up shot to death (with a gun that just happened to be in the back seat of her vehicle) just moments after a heated argument with her former BF.

It sounds to me, that Rae Ann Mosser made the threat to kill herself, was angry enough at her boyfriend to carry it out, was not in her right mind at the time due to being extremely emotional and in a desperate emotional act decided to end her life as a final gesture to her former BF so he'd feel sorry for giving her the push.

I agree with your reasoning here 100%. Indeed, I long ago realized that any statement to the effect of "so-and-so couldn't have committed suicide, he was too nice, too happy, too rich, too incompetent," etc., made by a family member, friend, coworker, psychiatrist, or father confessor about a person who appears to have committed suicide is entirely and 100% irrelevant. No one really knows what anyone else is capable of under extreme circumstances; that is a consequence of the human condition --- we are all, fundamentally, alone. So I never lend any credence to such statements.

The only reason this case gives me pause is that there is a legitimate question about whether or not the deceased had the physical ability to inflict the wound made to her chest. Could she have shot herself in the manner described by forensic pathologists? If the answer is no, that rules out suicide.

I'm not sure that questions has been satisfactorily answered (certainly it wasn't on the UM segment, but then again if they could provide a definitive answer, the segment would never have aired to begin with). Until it is, there is some doubt, though I agree that the highest likelihood (~97% sure on this one) is suicide.

[mattc]

The thing that this case hinges on is the autopsy findings, and, lets face it, one Doctor says it was a contact wound, and the other says she was shot from several feet away (both were done 6months after the body had been buried). This shows that autopsies are not always accurate, and, in my opinion, are not necessarily scientific in all cases. It scares me that so many people have been convicted of crimes based on what the autopsy revealed.

I tend to think Miss. Mosser killed herself, although there are some weird circumstances. It is clear to me the boyfriend is not a suspect, or it would have been alluded to by the police, or the UM segment. In fact, the segment stated, point blank, that there "was no suspect" in this case, which says to me that the boyfriend was eliminated as one.

Overall, I think this is a case of a parent not wanting to accept the fact that their daughter killed herself. Suicide due to unrequited love is not that uncommon, and unfortunately this appears to be a case of that.