Ratings and economics - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

LuV2DreeM · 02-07-2005, 01:13 PM

I had feared it a long time ago and got attacked on this thread for saying it. I said NBC might extend Dateline to 2 hours or play Law and Order repeats in our place if our ratings didn't go up. I don't feel like a "traitor" to admit I like both shows, especially Law and Order.
Don't hate the "messenger" just because you don't like the "message".

Well, here are the zap2it ratings for a REPEAT of Law and Order last night. It shows why it might make ECONOMIC sense to REPLAY an already filmed and PAID FOR show instead of incurring the cost of a new one:

"The evening sweep for FOX began in the 7 p.m. hour with the 38.8/59 for the Philadelphia/New England matchup. A CBS special on child prodigies was second with a 3.3/5. "Dateline NBC" was third with a 3.1/5. ABC was fourth with "America's Funniest Home Videos." On The WB, an encore of "Summerland" had a 0.8/1.

The second primetime hour of FOX's Super Bowl XXXIX coverage did a 36.7/54 for FOX. CBS stayed second with the 4.0/6 for "NCIS." NBC was third with "Law & Order: Criminal Intent," again nipping ABC's "Funniest Home Videos." The WB's second "Summerland" repeat improved to a 1.1/2.

In the 9 p.m. hour, FOX's football coverage did a 36.2/52. CBS remained second with the 5.0/7 for "Cold Case." ABC moved up to third with the 4.9/7 for "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition." NBC's "Law & Order" episode was fourth, still nearly five times better than a third repeat of "Summerland" on The WB.

FOX closed the night with a 24.1/38 for the end of the football game and the beginning of a special episode of "The Simpsons." ABC's "Desperate Housewives" delivered the evening's best non-football ratings with a 6.2/10. NBC was third with the 5.5/9 for "Law & Order: Criminal Intent." CBS trailed with "Without a Trace."

Our current 6 to 7 million viewers are apparently not enough to allay the cost of producing our show. Dateline and Law and Order both have repeats NBC can use in our time slot to continue taking a consistent 3rd or 4th place to ABC, CBS and sometimes FOX.
Not my preference, but theirs.
Get mad at me if you want, but it's not my fault 6 to 7 million people is NOT 13 million (like we used to get).

Once again I recommend you buy the dvd's. Their purchase "might" support the show financially and DEFINITELY gives you the chance to see AD whenever you want.

MMA003 · 02-07-2005, 03:10 PM

Sorry, this is a long post...
What I'm worried about is if they'll even release the second season on DVD. I know it's too early for them to release it, but ADINSIDER mentioned in another post that it's not looking good. I have the first season, but I missed most of the second, due to the fact that I am a college student and it's difficult to plan my time around a TV show. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, it's just that I have to maintain that line between a television show and real life if I want to get anything accomplished.
Does anyone have the numbers for how many DVDs were actually sold? Low sales could also be attributed to how much they cost, even though I realize they were very expensive to produce. Few people have $80 lying around to spend on a DVD set. Either way NBC, if you're going to cut the number of episodes this season and are considering cancelling the show entirely, at least respect the fans and let them enjoy all seasons on DVD.
LuV2DreeM, I understand what you're saying about the ratings, and I respect that you're being realistic. The fact is that while the show is one of Zucker's favorites, obviously networks are more concered about ad revenue than putting quality shows on the air. But how do we know that another show will do better than American Dreams in its current timeslot? It is up against Cold Case and Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, two very high rated shows. I also watch Arrested Development, another show that has low ratings and is equally as excellent as American Dreams, but in a different way. But I usually tape it. I wonder what garbage they could possibly replace AD with, although nothing surprises me with NBC, or any other network for that matter. Perhaps another "who wants to deceive your relative/boyfriend/girlfriend/child for a large sum of money in order to entertain Americans with their watered-down intelligence, and satisfy their limited attention spans"? I dare you to call it that, NBC! (Just so everyone knows, I realize I'm not describing everyone in America).
I wish that NBC would give the show a chance to climb up in the ratings (even though I know it's had several), and that they would promote the crap out of it like they do Law & Order, and like FOX does with all its shows. They did in the beginning, but at least be consistent.

Great8 · 02-08-2005, 12:08 PM

MMA003, I had the same concerns that you mentioned about them possibly not even putting out the 2nd season on DVD. I think that would really be crappy if they put out the 1st, and that's it. Maybe they could combine seasons 2 and 3 onto one set if that would cut down on production costs; at the very least, it would cut down on packaging and distribution costs.

NBC has treated this show very shabbily, and it's more than disappointing.

MMA003 · 02-08-2005, 06:18 PM

Great8, I think combining seasons 2 and 3 is a great idea. I'm wondering if the reason the DVDs are so expensive to produce is because they included the Back to Bandstand footage. I think that feature's great, but if that's what's keeping costs up, then I personally would be willing to give that up to get just the episodes. Also there wouldn't be as many episodes if they released each season individually, since remember that in the first season we had 25 episodes, second season there were 19, and this season there are 17.
Perhaps this is not a good example, but the second and third seasons of Family Guy were combined into one DVD volume, and it wasn't that much more expensive than the first season DVD. Also, DVD sales were partially the reason for the show's resurrection, since it was hastily cancelled by FOX.
I agree, NBC's treatment of this show irritates me. No promotion. At least not recent episodes, I did see a couple promos on Thursdays, but they were for the baby's birth and JJ coming home. No reruns to allow viewers to see episodes they missed or attract new ones. Someone on another board referred to it as the red-headed stepchild of the network, which I think is so true. They love that overly spun-off Law & Order as they advertise it constantly. Why didn't they test a new timeslot BEFORE it came so close to being cancelled? Why are they shelving it for February sweeps? Why are they pitting it against one of the highest rated new shows?

Great8 · 02-08-2005, 10:29 PM

LOL, MMA003, I think that was me who referred to "AD" as a red-headed stepchild. I feel like Bruno Kirby in "When Harry Met Sally"-- someone quoted me back to me! That's never happened before!

I think what might make the production costs of the DVD higher is acquiring the rights to play the music that's integrated into each episode. Apparently, there's an additional cost to the rights for the DVD, even after they get them for the TV version.

At this point, I'd settle for a stripped-down, no-frills combined Season 2 & 3 set. You're right, the "Back to Bandstand" segments are cool, but if that's cost-prohibitive, get rid of it.

LuV2DreeM · 02-09-2005, 11:33 AM

I guess that's the reason.......or BIG reason why they priced the dvd's so high compared to others..........MUSIC RIGHTS.

I guess being a musician CAN pay off at times.

Peace.

LuV2DreeM · 02-11-2005, 01:40 PM

Maybe I'm just "American Dreaming" here, but maybe we don't need the same ratings on Wed. night to please NBC's sponsors as we do on Sundays.

Anything's possible.

Peace.

MMA003 · 02-11-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great8

LOL, MMA003, I think that was me who referred to "AD" as a red-headed stepchild. I feel like Bruno Kirby in "When Harry Met Sally"-- someone quoted me back to me! That's never happened before!

LOL, Great8, I think I saw that post on the TWoP board, right? I thought it was a perfect way to describe the show! It seems to be an afterthought to the network...
The cost of the DVD's could be due to the music rights, since the show is so centered around it. If the show goes off the air, of course I'll be upset. But I will be very upset if they don't release it on DVD. That would be like a double whammy to viewers.
LuV2DreeM, I thought I read somewhere that ratings didn't matter to Campbells and Ford as much as the show's other advertisers. Hopefully, AD will be able to pull up the ratings, or maybe I'm also "American Dreaming."

Great8 · 02-12-2005, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMA003

LOL, Great8, I think I saw that post on the TWoP board, right? I thought it was a perfect way to describe the show! It seems to be an afterthought to the network...
The cost of the DVD's could be due to the music rights, since the show is so centered around it. If the show goes off the air, of course I'll be upset. But I will be very upset if they don't release it on DVD. That would be like a double whammy to viewers.
LuV2DreeM, I thought I read somewhere that ratings didn't matter to Campbells and Ford as much as the show's other advertisers. Hopefully, AD will be able to pull up the ratings, or maybe I'm also "American Dreaming."

I'm not sure which board it was! I post on 3 (this one, TVTome and IMDB). I didn't realize TWoP had a forum, I'll have to check it out.

I agree it would be like a double whammy if they canceled the show and don't release all the seasons on DVD. I hope they don't do that!

LuV2DreeM · 02-12-2005, 10:16 PM

Ya gotta think they'd release all shows on dvd.........the most expensive part has already been done.............the filming of the episodes. I think that is probably the most expensive part.

Unless the dvd's already out didn't sell enough to cover the costs of making them...........and maybe that's why the price is still so high?

I don't know.

Peace.

Storywriter · 02-13-2005, 01:11 AM

There's alot of show DVD's That they release and if it doesn't sell they still release it anyway.Gilmore Girls is one.I don't think its a big seller but they have released the Seasons after one.I think Season 4 was the recent one released I'm guessing.Saved by the Bell is another.Felicity.So I don't see why they shouldn't release season 2 and 3 of AD just because its not a big seller.Mel

LuV2DreeM · 02-15-2005, 10:43 PM

Obviously we are all hoping for all seasons to be released on dvd. The more AD, the better.

Peace.

Storywriter · 02-16-2005, 01:08 AM

Well if anyone wants too you go toTvshowsonDvd.com become a member there and vote for Ad Season's 2 and 3 to come on DVD.I belong to a My Little Pony site and we voted for Season 1 of My Little pony and Friends to come on DVd and guess what a few months later when November 12th 2004 came about MY Little pony Season one was released.

I bought it and have watched it so much.So if it worked for My Little pony it should work for American Dreams.Its all up to all of you okay.Bye.Mel

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuV2DreeM

Obviously we are all hoping for all seasons to be released on dvd. The more AD, the better.

Peace.

LuV2DreeM · 02-18-2005, 12:36 PM

Thanks for the tip........sounds like it should work!

Peace.

Storywriter · 02-18-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuV2DreeM

Thanks for the tip........sounds like it should work!

Peace.

It should.I really hope it does.But it's worth a shot right. Mel

02-07-2005, 01:13 PM	#1
LuV2DreeM Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 20, 2004 Posts: 200	Ratings and economics I had feared it a long time ago and got attacked on this thread for saying it. I said NBC might extend Dateline to 2 hours or play Law and Order repeats in our place if our ratings didn't go up. I don't feel like a "traitor" to admit I like both shows, especially Law and Order. Don't hate the "messenger" just because you don't like the "message". Well, here are the zap2it ratings for a REPEAT of Law and Order last night. It shows why it might make ECONOMIC sense to REPLAY an already filmed and PAID FOR show instead of incurring the cost of a new one: "The evening sweep for FOX began in the 7 p.m. hour with the 38.8/59 for the Philadelphia/New England matchup. A CBS special on child prodigies was second with a 3.3/5. "Dateline NBC" was third with a 3.1/5. ABC was fourth with "America's Funniest Home Videos." On The WB, an encore of "Summerland" had a 0.8/1. The second primetime hour of FOX's Super Bowl XXXIX coverage did a 36.7/54 for FOX. CBS stayed second with the 4.0/6 for "NCIS." NBC was third with "Law & Order: Criminal Intent," again nipping ABC's "Funniest Home Videos." The WB's second "Summerland" repeat improved to a 1.1/2. In the 9 p.m. hour, FOX's football coverage did a 36.2/52. CBS remained second with the 5.0/7 for "Cold Case." ABC moved up to third with the 4.9/7 for "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition." NBC's "Law & Order" episode was fourth, still nearly five times better than a third repeat of "Summerland" on The WB. FOX closed the night with a 24.1/38 for the end of the football game and the beginning of a special episode of "The Simpsons." ABC's "Desperate Housewives" delivered the evening's best non-football ratings with a 6.2/10. NBC was third with the 5.5/9 for "Law & Order: Criminal Intent." CBS trailed with "Without a Trace." Our current 6 to 7 million viewers are apparently not enough to allay the cost of producing our show. Dateline and Law and Order both have repeats NBC can use in our time slot to continue taking a consistent 3rd or 4th place to ABC, CBS and sometimes FOX. Not my preference, but theirs. Get mad at me if you want, but it's not my fault 6 to 7 million people is NOT 13 million (like we used to get). Once again I recommend you buy the dvd's. Their purchase "might" support the show financially and DEFINITELY gives you the chance to see AD whenever you want.

02-13-2005, 01:11 AM	#11
Storywriter Tcha! You Know What. Senior Member Join Date: Jan 29, 2004 Location: not given Posts: 1,209	There's There's alot of show DVD's That they release and if it doesn't sell they still release it anyway.Gilmore Girls is one.I don't think its a big seller but they have released the Seasons after one.I think Season 4 was the recent one released I'm guessing.Saved by the Bell is another.Felicity.So I don't see why they shouldn't release season 2 and 3 of AD just because its not a big seller.Mel
	__________________ The Vampire Diaries,Pretty Little liars, The Mentalist,Victorious, Icarly all good shows Proud Adult Disney channel and Nickelodeon fan in her 30's Last edited by Storywriter; 02-16-2005 at 01:05 AM.

02-07-2005, 03:10 PM	#2
MMA003 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 29, 2005 Posts: 11	Sorry, this is a long post... What I'm worried about is if they'll even release the second season on DVD. I know it's too early for them to release it, but ADINSIDER mentioned in another post that it's not looking good. I have the first season, but I missed most of the second, due to the fact that I am a college student and it's difficult to plan my time around a TV show. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, it's just that I have to maintain that line between a television show and real life if I want to get anything accomplished. Does anyone have the numbers for how many DVDs were actually sold? Low sales could also be attributed to how much they cost, even though I realize they were very expensive to produce. Few people have $80 lying around to spend on a DVD set. Either way NBC, if you're going to cut the number of episodes this season and are considering cancelling the show entirely, at least respect the fans and let them enjoy all seasons on DVD. LuV2DreeM, I understand what you're saying about the ratings, and I respect that you're being realistic. The fact is that while the show is one of Zucker's favorites, obviously networks are more concered about ad revenue than putting quality shows on the air. But how do we know that another show will do better than American Dreams in its current timeslot? It is up against Cold Case and Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, two very high rated shows. I also watch Arrested Development, another show that has low ratings and is equally as excellent as American Dreams, but in a different way. But I usually tape it. I wonder what garbage they could possibly replace AD with, although nothing surprises me with NBC, or any other network for that matter. Perhaps another "who wants to deceive your relative/boyfriend/girlfriend/child for a large sum of money in order to entertain Americans with their watered-down intelligence, and satisfy their limited attention spans"? I dare you to call it that, NBC! (Just so everyone knows, I realize I'm not describing everyone in America). I wish that NBC would give the show a chance to climb up in the ratings (even though I know it's had several), and that they would promote the crap out of it like they do Law & Order, and like FOX does with all its shows. They did in the beginning, but at least be consistent.

02-08-2005, 12:08 PM	#3
Great8 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Feb 08, 2005 Posts: 77	MMA003, I had the same concerns that you mentioned about them possibly not even putting out the 2nd season on DVD. I think that would really be crappy if they put out the 1st, and that's it. Maybe they could combine seasons 2 and 3 onto one set if that would cut down on production costs; at the very least, it would cut down on packaging and distribution costs. NBC has treated this show very shabbily, and it's more than disappointing.

02-08-2005, 06:18 PM	#4
MMA003 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 29, 2005 Posts: 11	Great8, I think combining seasons 2 and 3 is a great idea. I'm wondering if the reason the DVDs are so expensive to produce is because they included the Back to Bandstand footage. I think that feature's great, but if that's what's keeping costs up, then I personally would be willing to give that up to get just the episodes. Also there wouldn't be as many episodes if they released each season individually, since remember that in the first season we had 25 episodes, second season there were 19, and this season there are 17. Perhaps this is not a good example, but the second and third seasons of Family Guy were combined into one DVD volume, and it wasn't that much more expensive than the first season DVD. Also, DVD sales were partially the reason for the show's resurrection, since it was hastily cancelled by FOX. I agree, NBC's treatment of this show irritates me. No promotion. At least not recent episodes, I did see a couple promos on Thursdays, but they were for the baby's birth and JJ coming home. No reruns to allow viewers to see episodes they missed or attract new ones. Someone on another board referred to it as the red-headed stepchild of the network, which I think is so true. They love that overly spun-off Law & Order as they advertise it constantly. Why didn't they test a new timeslot BEFORE it came so close to being cancelled? Why are they shelving it for February sweeps? Why are they pitting it against one of the highest rated new shows?

02-08-2005, 10:29 PM	#5
Great8 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Feb 08, 2005 Posts: 77	LOL, MMA003, I think that was me who referred to "AD" as a red-headed stepchild. I feel like Bruno Kirby in "When Harry Met Sally"-- someone quoted me back to me! That's never happened before! I think what might make the production costs of the DVD higher is acquiring the rights to play the music that's integrated into each episode. Apparently, there's an additional cost to the rights for the DVD, even after they get them for the TV version. At this point, I'd settle for a stripped-down, no-frills combined Season 2 & 3 set. You're right, the "Back to Bandstand" segments are cool, but if that's cost-prohibitive, get rid of it.

02-09-2005, 11:33 AM	#6
LuV2DreeM Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 20, 2004 Posts: 200	I guess that's the reason.......or BIG reason why they priced the dvd's so high compared to others..........MUSIC RIGHTS. I guess being a musician CAN pay off at times. Peace.

02-11-2005, 01:40 PM	#7
LuV2DreeM Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 20, 2004 Posts: 200	Maybe I'm just "American Dreaming" here, but maybe we don't need the same ratings on Wed. night to please NBC's sponsors as we do on Sundays. Anything's possible. Peace.

02-12-2005, 10:16 PM	#10
LuV2DreeM Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 20, 2004 Posts: 200	Ya gotta think they'd release all shows on dvd.........the most expensive part has already been done.............the filming of the episodes. I think that is probably the most expensive part. Unless the dvd's already out didn't sell enough to cover the costs of making them...........and maybe that's why the price is still so high? I don't know. Peace.

02-15-2005, 10:43 PM	#12
LuV2DreeM Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 20, 2004 Posts: 200	Obviously we are all hoping for all seasons to be released on dvd. The more AD, the better. Peace.

02-18-2005, 12:36 PM	#14
LuV2DreeM Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 20, 2004 Posts: 200	Thanks for the tip........sounds like it should work! Peace.