Freddy or Larry?

[Adamantium]

Which manager of Joey's did you prefer to watch?

In another post, I stated that I didn't like Freddy. Now, I've changed my mind. I think I'm gonna go with Freddy.

Freddy (episodes 1-19) played by Guy Marks
Larry Corbett (episodes 20-91) played by Corbett Monica

[coachjones]

Love Freddy.

[jehobden]

I guess I prefer Freddy since I have a special appreciation for him in the season 2 DVD set. Last ep I watched was "Joey's Replacement", which had both Guy Marks as Freddy and Corbett Monica as a comic named Johnny, pre-Larry. I'd always thought Guy Marks was especially tall, but actually Joey was only about 5'7", and Corbett Monica even shorter, so Guy Marks could've been under 6 ft tall and still looked tall compared to those two. I especially enjoyed Guy Marks' last ep, "Freddy Goes Highbrow", where he uses a fake British accent. No explanation was made why he worked w/ Joey in one ep and then Larry was working w/ Joey in the next ep.

[coachjones]

That guy was hilarious! After The Joey Bishop Show he was hardly ever seen on TV again. Did he direct? Produce? I have a copy of the Dean Martin Roast - Michael Landon. Marks did his Indian routine. Maybe the funniest thing I have ever seen.

[jehobden]

Originally Posted by coachjones

That guy was hilarious! After The Joey Bishop Show he was hardly ever seen on TV again. Did he direct? Produce? I have a copy of the Dean Martin Roast - Michael Landon. Marks did his Indian routine. Maybe the funniest thing I have ever seen.

He was a regular on The John Forsythe Show (1965-66), where he played first a coworker at the school that Forsythe's character ran, and then about halfway through the series, his and Forsythe's characters played special agents, as tv went spy-crazy about that time. 1965-66 was also the year, kicked off by the popularity of Get Smart, that tv went secret agent-crazy. Mr. Ed had several eps in its last Sunday afternoon mini-season when Ed was agent "Oat-Oat Seven", and he and Wilbur were involved in espionage plots. Marks died in 1987, and his last regular role was in 1986 in the sitcom "You Again?", which had John Stamos playing Jack Klugman's long-lost son. I think that Marks played one of Klugman's poker-playing cronies.

[Bob's TV Treasures]

I'd love to know why he left THE JOEY BISHOP SHOW. Anybody know the answer? The guy was a scream. What a great character!!! His later sitcoms, THE JOHN FORSYTHE SHOW and RANGO never gave him the same creative freedom. If memory serves, he died in 1987.

[bookandfilmnut]

Originally Posted by Bob's TV Treasures

I'd love to know why he left THE JOEY BISHOP SHOW. Anybody know the answer? The guy was a scream. What a great character!!! His later sitcoms, THE JOHN FORSYTHE SHOW and RANGO never gave him the same creative freedom. If memory serves, he died in 1987.

I'll answer the orginial question first - by far I prefer Freddy's character to Larry. Larry's character had no real personality, he was just there to set up Joey Bishop's punchline, whereas Freddy was hilarious as played by the hugely talented Guy Marks.

The second question, why did Marks leave the show? I have heard of two explanations, and I hope the second one is the truth.

First, I heard that Joey Bishop got rid of Guy Marks because he was getting all the laughs, and overshadowing Joey. I hope this is not true because I have always admired Joey Bishop and hope he would not do something like this.

I also heard that Guy Marks left of his own decision because he preferred travelling and playing his act in night clubs, and he was afraid too many of his routines were over-exposed by being used in the show, which would mean that his live audiences would already have seen his impressions and gags and his routines would be ruined for live audiences. I hope this is the true answer.

[jehobden]

Originally Posted by bookandfilmnut

I'll answer the orginial question first - by far I prefer Freddy's character to Larry. Larry's character had no real personality, he was just there to set up Joey Bishop's punchline, whereas Freddy was hilarious as played by the hugely talented Guy Marks.

The second question, why did Marks leave the show? I have heard of two explanations, and I hope the second one is the truth.

First, I heard that Joey Bishop got rid of Guy Marks because he was getting all the laughs, and overshadowing Joey. I hope this is not true because I have always admired Joey Bishop and hope he would not do something like this.

I also heard that Guy Marks left of his own decision because he preferred travelling and playing his act in night clubs, and he was afraid too many of his routines were over-exposed by being used in the show, which would mean that his live audiences would already have seen his impressions and gags and his routines would be ruined for live audiences. I hope this is the true answer.

First of all thanks for bringing this show's board back to life by making the first new reply here in almost 3 years.

I think that your option 1 may be closer to the truth. I've read that Joey forced out Joe Flynn during Season 1 because Flynn was getting more laughs (which wasn't hard to do against the first conception of Joey's character, who seemed pretty wimpy). Also Joey admitted in a TV Guide interview that he chose not to retain Marks after 18 shows because "I needed someone who could feed me [my lines and pace] faster.", so he went with Monica instead.

[bookandfilmnut]

Originally Posted by jehobden

First of all thanks for bringing this show's board back to life by making the first new reply here in almost 3 years.

I think that your option 1 may be closer to the truth. I've read that Joey forced out Joe Flynn during Season 1 because Flynn was getting more laughs (which wasn't hard to do against the first conception of Joey's character, who seemed pretty wimpy). Also Joey admitted in a TV Guide interview that he chose not to retain Marks after 18 shows because "I needed someone who could feed me [my lines and pace] faster.", so he went with Monica instead.

That's disappointing to hear, but I suppose everybody occasioanlly looks out for #1. I think it was a mistake to have dropped Marks, because he added so much energy to the episodes he was in, and his manic personality was a nice counter-point to Bishop's deadpan humor. I thought they made a good pair.

I bought the 2nd season set of dvd's 2 years ago, and often re-watched the Marks episodes, but don't frequently look at the Monica episodes. I think the show would have been much better remembered today if they had left in Freddy's character. I think the best episode of then all was the one where they were having a "Texas Party" to make Abby Dalton's character less homesick.

As for Joe Flynn, he was funny in McHale's Navy, but he is best taken in small doses - his persona would be tiresome if it on screen for too long (Joe Besser is the same way).

One final remark - Abby Dalton did a great job portraying Joey's wife and she did have a few good comedy scenes of her own. Although there is only one Mary Tyler Moore, I think Ms. Dalton compares rather well to MTM.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by jehobden

First of all thanks for bringing this show's board back to life by making the first new reply here in almost 3 years.

I think that your option 1 may be closer to the truth. I've read that Joey forced out Joe Flynn during Season 1 because Flynn was getting more laughs (which wasn't hard to do against the first conception of Joey's character, who seemed pretty wimpy). Also Joey admitted in a TV Guide interview that he chose not to retain Marks after 18 shows because "I needed someone who could feed me [my lines and pace] faster.", so he went with Monica instead.

I would agree with you. I've seen a couple articles from back in the day alluding to a big fight on the set, including this:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...y-bishop&hl=en

And this article, indicating Marks' acceptance by viewers is what led to his downfall. I suppose that was this writer's sly way of saying Joey canned him for getting too many laughs (the writer might have been facing a libel suit if he were more blunt):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...y-bishop&hl=en

But here's one writer that came right out and said it: Joey doesn't like to surround himself with people who get too many laughs. The writer makes the point not only in regard to Marks, but Joe Flynn (from the first season) as well:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...y-bishop&hl=en

Joe Flynn was apparently bitter about his departure:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...hop+show&hl=en

Marks was not only popular with viewers, but also with the critics, this one crediting Marks with the improved new format of The Joey Bishop Show:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...y-bishop&hl=en

So if those rumors are true, Joey apparently didn't co-stars that got more laughs. But he tried to save face (for himself) regarding Marks, claiming he left the show because he couldn't take the sudden fame:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...y-bishop&hl=en

That doesn't really seem plausible to me because it appears Guy Marks was immediately looking for a new TV job on The Jackie Gleason Show:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...y-bishop&hl=en

So the rumors persisted that Joey Bishop fired people if he thought they got more laughs. Corbett Monica claimed that wasn't true, but of course, what was he going to say? He had his own livelihood to be concerned about:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...y-bishop&hl=en

Whatever happened, it seems they eventually made up because several years later, Joey Bishop had Guy Marks as a guest a couple times on his talk show:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...y-bishop&hl=en

[bookandfilmnut]

Very interesting and thanks for posting those news articles. In regards to the Joe Flynn issue, it seems his bitterness was aimed at the entire show itself for bumping him off in the re-vamp not just at Bishop personally. I've only seen a handful of episodes from the first season, but it was very much in need of a re-boot, and it's unfortunate for Joe Flynn (or anyone) to lose their job in a restructuring, but it may not have been personally aimed at Flynn. The first version of the show was rather lackluster, judging from the few episodes I've seen, and it was mostly because Joey Bishop did not excel at playing that type of character - a mil mannered and somewhat hapless and put-upon everyman. Bishop needed to be allowed to use his sardonic witticisms, and the first incarnation made his character to meek for that to work. Granted they could have re-booted with all the regular cast members kept, but they opted not to and that's the way the ball bounces in Hollywood.

However, I do not buy the explanation Bishop provided for Marks leaving the show. I think it could have been case of Bishop wanting his old buddy Corbett to be in the show, and was looking for an excuse to make a place for him. That it is not much of an improvement, common decency-wise, on the notion that he got rid of Marks for for being too funny, but it may make more sense.

[Jude The Obscure]

I'm glad to see the reruns back on TV! I enjoyed this show when it was reran years back on TVL. I don't remember who I preferred but I do remember thinking the sudden cast switch was mysterious. Also Abby Dalton is very enjoyable to see again in a light comedic role.

[jehobden]

Originally Posted by bookandfilmnut

Very interesting and thanks for posting those news articles. In regards to the Joe Flynn issue, it seems his bitterness was aimed at the entire show itself for bumping him off in the re-vamp not just at Bishop personally. I've only seen a handful of episodes from the first season, but it was very much in need of a re-boot, and it's unfortunate for Joe Flynn (or anyone) to lose their job in a restructuring, but it may not have been personally aimed at Flynn. The first version of the show was rather lackluster, judging from the few episodes I've seen, and it was mostly because Joey Bishop did not excel at playing that type of character - a mil mannered and somewhat hapless and put-upon everyman. Bishop needed to be allowed to use his sardonic witticisms, and the first incarnation made his character to meek for that to work. Granted they could have re-booted with all the regular cast members kept, but they opted not to and that's the way the ball bounces in Hollywood.

However, I do not buy the explanation Bishop provided for Marks leaving the show. I think it could have been case of Bishop wanting his old buddy Corbett to be in the show, and was looking for an excuse to make a place for him. That it is not much of an improvement, common decency-wise, on the notion that he got rid of Marks for for being too funny, but it may make more sense.

I'd think Flynn would've been happy he was released from the first incarnation of Joey's show, since that made him available for McHale's Navy when Joey's 2nd season began. I think Flynn had much more success playing Capt. Binghamton than he ever could've had staying on Joey's show, where basically the entire cast was replaced after S1 anyway.

[bookandfilmnut]

Originally Posted by Jude The Obscure

I'm glad to see the reruns back on TV! I enjoyed this show when it was reran years back on TVL. I don't remember who I preferred but I do remember thinking the sudden cast switch was mysterious. Also Abby Dalton is very enjoyable to see again in a light comedic role.

Really, is it back on TVLand's line up somewhere? I didn't know it was once again being aired?

[bookandfilmnut]

Originally Posted by jehobden

I'd think Flynn would've been happy he was released from the first incarnation of Joey's show, since that made him available for McHale's Navy when Joey's 2nd season began. I think Flynn had much more success playing Capt. Binghamton than he even could've had staying on Joey's show, where basically the entire cast was replaced after S1 anyway.

Yes, I think you're right, the Binghamton role was a perfect fit for Joe Flynn, I can't imagine anyone else in the part. No one can say "What what what what?" quite like Joe Flynn!