Can you trust your education?

[Chambers]

Having studied in both American and international schools, I know from experience that education can be culturally biased. One of the best examples of this is the case of aviation. Every American will tell you that the Wright Brothers are responsible for the first heavier-than-air flight. However, in Brazil and a few other countries, a Brazilian named Santos-Dumont is given that title. Below you'll find an excerpt about this dispute, which I got from this site.

The purpose of this post is not to debate who is the real father of aviation (I personally think the title is not a very relevant issue to the study of aviation but merely a symbol of national pride). My actual purpose is to show how our cultural biases often go unperceived. Ideally, every school should present all three of these figures when teaching about aviation, since both the Wright brothers and Santos-Dumont made indisputable contributions to the field. This case isn't very different from the way important African-Americans were excluded from US history textbooks. It's a very frightening feeling - realizing that there's a whole other world out there you never thought existed.

The Disputed Title:
The history of early flying machines is still the ground disputes about definitions, facts, priorities, and merits. These polemics are often fueled by strong nationalistic or cultural feelings.

In Brazil and some other countries, Santos-Dumont is widely considered to be a "Father of Aviation", because of the official and of public character of the 14-bis flight and/or technical points such as the plane's integral landing gear and its ability to take off on open ground. This has been traditionally the official position of the Brazilian government, especially since the Getúlio Vargas dictatorship. Some admirers of Santos-Dumont go further and question the official history of other early flyers, such as the early Wright brother's earlier flights, claiming, for instance, that those exploits still have not been convincingly replicated with modern reconstructions of the Wright Flyers, that documents are inconclusive or unreliable, that witness reports are inconsistent, or even that some photos were forged [1] (http://www.thefirsttofly.hpg.ig.com.br/pioneer2.htm). A number of other early flying machines with less esteem are also, often disregarded as well.

There were many machines that got up into the air in a limited fashion and many variations heavier-then-air titles to which varying amounts of credit have been awarded by various groups. For example, in the former USSR Aleksandr Fyodorovich Mozhaiski is sometimes credited as a 'Father of Aviation', for his powered heavier-then-air machine going airborne (generally recognized as the second such flight in that category) in 1884.[[2] (http://www.flyingmachines.org/moz.html)] The disputes about the proper definition of "powered heavier than air flight" still go on. For example, with regard to gliders fitted with small engines that are used non-continuously; these debates do not extend to methods of take off systems. The issue of assisted takeoff can be a issue with early flights, however, since any help given is more significant for how long they were airborne for short flights.


While there is a high regard for Santos-Dumont's accomplishments, and a recognition of the 14-bis flight as a important event in early aviation, the honor of first effective heavier-than-air flight is most commonly assigned the Wright brothers. In any case, early reports of the Wrights' activities and the disclosure of key design features in their 1904 European patent filings certainly helped many airplane developers in succeeding years, including Santos-Dumont. Moreover, Santos-Dumont's success was aided by improvements in engine power/weight ratio and other advances in materials and construction techniques that had taken place in previous years.

Just as some seek to broaden the accomplishments of the 14-bis flights, there are others who seek to narrow them, although this is less common. One criticism is that the low altitude at which the 14-bis flew permitted the lift to be augmented by ground effect. If so, then the argument is sometimes made that the craft was not a true heavier-then-air aircraft flight. The often low flights of many aviation pioneers, including some of the Wrights initial flights, fall prey to a complex debate over classifications of machines that are aided by this phenomenon.

Also, there's been some questions of the Aero-Club De Frances conflict of interest in there involvement with Dumont's claim. The questions largely arising from their knowledge of the Wrights, members being in competition with them, and there involvement with Dumont. How partial the Aero-Club De France was to Santos-Dumont is a matter of debate.

[Nighthawk76]

Different cultures take diffrent views on historical events. Even in America. One example would be that in the Northern part of the United States the Civil War is called the Civil War, but in many southern schools the war is often referred to as the War of Northern Aggresion.

[Chambers]

Originally posted by dukey
Different cultures take diffrent views on historical events. Even in America. One example would be that in the Northern part of the United States the Civil War is called the Civil War, but in many southern schools the war is often referred to as the War of Northern Aggresion.

True. History is told by the victor. Which sadly is a limited perspective.

[Kazza]

Sadly; in Puerto Rico the teachers are not prepared to be teaching..Books are in English, classes are in Spanish. There's no quality time spent between teacher-student. It's a disgrace!
Now, I have a 1st grader and can really tell the difference in quality from one era to another

[barwars]

Originally posted by Chambers
This case isn't very different from the way important African-Americans were excluded from US history textbooks. It's a very frightening feeling - realizing that there's a whole other world out there you never thought existed.

Often during Black History Month, we would be taught specifically about certain African Americans. But what I never understood is why they taught us about people who did certain things, that they never would have taught us about if they had been white.

(for example.... George Washington Carver inventing Peanut Butter. If he were white, I dont think we would have talked about him much, if at all)

[Rhiannon]

i hate school and i feel totally stupid.

[Chambers]

Originally posted by barwars
Often during Black History Month, we would be taught specifically about certain African Americans. But what I never understood is why they taught us about people who did certain things, that they never would have taught us about if they had been white.

(for example.... George Washington Carver inventing Peanut Butter. If he were white, I dont think we would have talked about him much, if at all)

heh, that's true. That really shows how separating education from politics is practically impossible.

[dawsongirl]

America is the most biased country in the whole world. To put it bluntly...we think our **** doesn't stink at all. And some people wonder why the world hates us...

[Kazza]

Originally posted by dawsongirl
America is the most biased country in the whole world. To put it bluntly...we think our **** doesn't stink at all. And some people wonder why the world hates us...

I would call it self- centered, selfish AND biased!

[Chambers]

Originally posted by dawsongirl
America is the most biased country in the whole world.

Then again, most countries are. It's hard not to be.

[BUSH-2004!!!]

Originally posted by dawsongirl
America is the most biased country in the whole world. To put it bluntly...we think our **** doesn't stink at all. And some people wonder why the world hates us...

Maybe you need to move somewhere where you might be happy.

[Chambers]

Originally posted by BUSH-2004!!!
Maybe you need to move somewhere where you might be happy.

Please don't start this in my thread.

Just because some people see problems with their native countries does not mean they aren't patriotic. Citizens of a country have a right to voice their disatisfactions and have a right to want change. If the US were an authoritarian state, then telling her to move to another country would be appropriate. Since the US is a democracy, she has a right to an opinion.


This is supposed to be a thread about how our cultures shape our education. If you would like to add to that specific discussion, be my guest.

[BUSH-2004!!!]

Originally posted by Chambers
Please don't start this in my thread.

Just because some people see problems with their native countries does not mean they aren't patriotic. Citizens of a country have a right to voice their disatisfactions and have a right to want change. If the US were an authoritarian state, then telling her to move to another country would be appropriate. Since the US is a democracy, she has a right to an opinion.


This is supposed to be a thread about how our cultures shape our education. If you would like to add to that specific discussion, be my guest.

And the reason you addressed this to me was why???

"quoted by dawsongirl:

America is the most biased country in the whole world. To put it bluntly...we think our **** doesn't stink at all. And some people wonder why the world hates us..."

I believe this is your starting point for lecturing about "starting this" in your thread.

[dawsongirl]

Originally posted by BUSH-2004!!!
And the reason you addressed this to me was why???

"quoted by dawsongirl:

America is the most biased country in the whole world. To put it bluntly...we think our **** doesn't stink at all. And some people wonder why the world hates us..."

I believe this is your starting point for lecturing about "starting this" in your thread.

And how did I start it? I was contributing to the discussion. America is biased. This is why there are a lot of historical facts, like the one Chambers mentioned about aviation, that we don't learn...because it didn't involve an American. Face it...we think we are the greatest country in the world and what's included and excluded in our history books reflects that.

Your insinuation that I hate this country was completely unfounded. Maybe you're wearing rose-colored glasses and think this country has no flaws. I'm not and I have a right to say so. And not that I need to tell you this, but I'm very happy where I am. So leave your political agenda out of this thread.