Why did Danny bury the first 4 seasons? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

bencasey · 09-14-2004, 01:36 AM

Was it because Jean Hagen had some ownership on the early shows? The first 3 seasons were the best, as is the case with most series. Fewer musical numbers and Hagen stood up to him far better than Lord did.

Bob's TV Treasures · 09-14-2004, 12:16 PM

One good reason as to why the early "Make Room For Daddy" shows are not often available in syndication is that the show was sponsored by The American Tobacco Company, and the sponsorship was incorporated into the show's opening and closing credits. When the show IS seen in syndication, it is usually shown with no opening nor closing credits. I don't know why they couldn't doctor it, as is done by TV LAND with the original "I Love Lucy" opens. That big oblong item in those "LUCY" opening credits was a pack of Phillip Morris cigarettes, but has been obscured with the TV LAND logo. For the younger members of Sitcoms Online, cigarette advertising last appeared on TV on New Year's Eve 1970. By 1/1/71 they were gone forever. Some may recall that KENT cigarettes bought lots of advertising on the TONIGHT SHOW that evening, pre-midnight, of course....but I digress.

LATTML · 11-09-2004, 10:28 PM

Actually, the ABC years were seen in syndication in the early '90s, right after Nick at Night dropped the usual syndication package. The pre-Kathy years aired on the Channel America TV Network. It was (I'm not even sure it exists anymore) a network of sorts that provided programing for low-power UHF stations. Much of that programming consisted of '50s TV shows. For example, it also aired "Mr. and Mrs. North," the original "Dragnet," "Racket Squad," etc. I taped a bunch of the Danny Thomas Show espoides that ran at the time. As for the commerical intro the above poster mentioned, MRFD was co-sponsored by the American Tobacco Company and Dodge. They would alternate weekly, and the show open would start with about a 60-second commerical for that week's prime sponsor. But after that, in efffect, commerical, the open was standard: words to the effect of, "Danny Thomas, starring as Danny Williams, Jean Hagen as his wife, and Sherry Jackson and Rusty Hamer as their children in, Make Room for Daddy." When CA aired them, they simply started with the standardized portion of the intro, so the sponsor's commerical wasn't really an issue. And I don't know if anyone owns these anymore. If you look in any dollar store, you'll find a few MRFD DVDs from the Jean Hagen years; they usually have three episodes (including the original Dodge/Pall Mall opens) and generally sell for $1 to $3. They're obviously not pirate copies. Those types of DVDs generally feature presenations which have passed into the public domain, such as "It's A Wonderful Life" and the rest. It appears that's what happened witrh the ABC years, though I don't know for sure.

KSCOTT · 01-01-2005, 07:14 PM

You're right again! The Jean Hagen years were the best! However, these episodes were upgraded around 1960 with the same big band sound of Danny Boy that was used when Marjorie Lord joined the series in 1957. My family and I watched them after school on NBC everyday at 4:30 p.m I don't know what happened to this version over the years.

My guess is that someone in the business has these episodes and I've written to Nick and Nite and T.V. Land to show them to the new generation and have been shot down everytime.

bencasey · 09-25-2005, 12:20 PM

Nothing "happened to them". Danny didn't want them seen for some reason and his heirs are just following his wishes by not making them available. The Channel America run was of whatever PD episodes people could get their hands on and they did not constitute a legit syndication property.

Mrs. Ducky · 10-02-2005, 06:01 PM

Does anyone know why danny didn't want them seen?

Marjorie Lord Fan · 10-08-2005, 04:58 AM

Does anyone know the episode where Kathy takes a job because she`s mad at Danny? I think at the end of the show she`s on the sofa and Danny`s giving her a foot massage. Is it available on tape?

petnel · 10-08-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marjorie Lord Fan

Does anyone know the episode where Kathy takes a job because she`s mad at Danny? I think at the end of the show she`s on the sofa and Danny`s giving her a foot massage. Is it available on tape?

I believe Kathy took a job demostrating a household cleaner. Where she had to get down on her hands and knees to do the required cleaning!

Marjorie Lord Fan · 10-09-2005, 05:26 AM

Thanks for the information.

KSCOTT · 10-11-2005, 05:51 PM

Hi Everyone:
I would like to know where did this information come from regarding that Danny didn't want the first 4 seasons shown and why? I would have thought he would want them to be shown in syndication again since they 're such great episodes!

pilotguy · 10-18-2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSCOTT

Hi Everyone:
I would like to know where did this information come from regarding that Danny didn't want the first 4 seasons shown and why? I would have thought he would want them to be shown in syndication again since they 're such great episodes!

Since the first four seasons ARE such great episodes, the only reason that I could think of as to why Danny wouldn't want them shown is that once his "new" TV family was established (with Marjorie Lord and Angela Cartwright), he seemed to want us to think of the "new" family as the "official" family, and not a "substitute" family.

As the seasons went on, less and less was said about Danny and Kathy's marriage being the second marriage for both of them. Also, the "stepchild" angle was toned down and eventually eliminated altogether....after a few seasons, Rusty called Kathy "Mom" instead of "Kathy".

In other words, as the series progressed, Danny tried to make it seem as if Kathy, Rusty, Linda and Terry had been his family from Day #1, with no previous wife who had died. Sure, we all KNEW that there had been another wife, but Danny really downplayed it....and if the early episodes with Jean Hagen and only Rusty and Terry kept popping up every so often, it would be a strong reminder to viewers of Danny's earlier marriage. (Don't forget that Danny kept bringing back Family #2 in reunion specials and the "Make Room For Grandaddy" series).

I could be completely wrong on this, but based on Danny Thomas' excellent and effective marketing of Family #2, that's why I could see him "burying" Family #1.

bencasey · 03-17-2006, 12:38 PM

That above explanation really does make the most sense. The first example of revisionist history? Also, once they got Family #2, they couldn't wait to get rid of Sherry Jackson. She isn't in a lot of 5th season episodes and then she is shipped off to college (at age 16!) after the season. I wonder what was up with that. And when they did bring the character back for a year it was with a different actress. Story I heard is that even at her young age, her figure put Marjorie Lord's to shame. Also, TV didn't really know how to deal with sexy teenage girls in the 1950s so it was easier to just write her out.

But getting back to the missing 4 seasons, I know syndicators who have tried to license the shows and they were turned down. Danny didn't want them seen and his heirs are honoring his wishes to keep them out of circulation. Another show with a similar issue is The Joey Bishop Show. Joey hated the first season format and doesn't want them shown. Also, Marlo Thomas didn't like her nose in those shows and she doesn't want them out there either.

KSCOTT · 03-24-2006, 02:37 PM

IT'S ALSO RUMORED THE PRODUCERS WANTED SHERRY JACKSON BACK FOR THE 1959-1960 SEASON. HOWEVER, SHE, HER FAMILY AND THE PRODUCERS DIDN'T SET HORSES TOGETHER! SO THEY HIRED PENNY PARKER WHO ONLY LASTED ONE SEASON TO REPLACE HER. HOWEVER,PENNY WAS WRITTEN OUT!

SHERRY JACKSON WAS VERY GOOD AS TERRY WILLIAMS! PENNY HAD SOME PRETTY HARD SHOES TO FILL!

.

TV Guy · 03-25-2006, 09:40 PM

What happened was that the show finished its run with over 300 episodes in its library. It was difficult to sell local stations a syndication package with so many episodes when you're charging per episode. So they dropped some episodes from the package (a very common practice at the time - see "Bonanza", "My Three Sons", "Petticoat Junction"). Since "The Danny Thomas Show" did become a top 10 show until it moved to CBS, with Marjorie Lord as Mrs. Williams, it made sense to drop the earlier, less-popular episodes from the syndication package. Also, since Jean Hagen (Margaret) owned a percentage of the earlier shows, keeping those episodes out of syndication meant that Danny's production company didn't have to share any profits with her.

KSCOTT · 03-27-2006, 04:02 PM

TV GUY:
Thanks! for clearing that up for me. I didn't know Jean Hagen owned a percentage of the earlier shows. Well now! that explains the mystery.

01-01-2005, 07:14 PM	#4
KSCOTT Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 01, 2005 Location: WASHINGTON, D.C. AREA Posts: 17	THE JEAN HAGEN YEARS! You're right again! The Jean Hagen years were the best! However, these episodes were upgraded around 1960 with the same big band sound of Danny Boy that was used when Marjorie Lord joined the series in 1957. My family and I watched them after school on NBC everyday at 4:30 p.m I don't know what happened to this version over the years. My guess is that someone in the business has these episodes and I've written to Nick and Nite and T.V. Land to show them to the new generation and have been shot down everytime.
	__________________ TOP CAT

10-02-2005, 06:01 PM	#6
Mrs. Ducky Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 01, 2003 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,461	Does anyone know why danny didn't want them seen?
	__________________ “If television's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.” Dorothy Gambrell

10-11-2005, 05:51 PM	#10
KSCOTT Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 01, 2005 Location: WASHINGTON, D.C. AREA Posts: 17	RE: THE FIRST 4 SEASONS Hi Everyone: I would like to know where did this information come from regarding that Danny didn't want the first 4 seasons shown and why? I would have thought he would want them to be shown in syndication again since they 're such great episodes!

03-24-2006, 02:37 PM	#13
KSCOTT Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 01, 2005 Location: WASHINGTON, D.C. AREA Posts: 17	MAKE ROOM FOR DADDY IT'S ALSO RUMORED THE PRODUCERS WANTED SHERRY JACKSON BACK FOR THE 1959-1960 SEASON. HOWEVER, SHE, HER FAMILY AND THE PRODUCERS DIDN'T SET HORSES TOGETHER! SO THEY HIRED PENNY PARKER WHO ONLY LASTED ONE SEASON TO REPLACE HER. HOWEVER,PENNY WAS WRITTEN OUT! SHERRY JACKSON WAS VERY GOOD AS TERRY WILLIAMS! PENNY HAD SOME PRETTY HARD SHOES TO FILL! .

09-14-2004, 01:36 AM	#1
bencasey Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: Long Beach Posts: 1,692	Why did Danny bury the first 4 seasons? Was it because Jean Hagen had some ownership on the early shows? The first 3 seasons were the best, as is the case with most series. Fewer musical numbers and Hagen stood up to him far better than Lord did.

09-14-2004, 12:16 PM	#2
Bob's TV Treasures Member Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 12, 2004 Location: california Posts: 529	Early Episodes One good reason as to why the early "Make Room For Daddy" shows are not often available in syndication is that the show was sponsored by The American Tobacco Company, and the sponsorship was incorporated into the show's opening and closing credits. When the show IS seen in syndication, it is usually shown with no opening nor closing credits. I don't know why they couldn't doctor it, as is done by TV LAND with the original "I Love Lucy" opens. That big oblong item in those "LUCY" opening credits was a pack of Phillip Morris cigarettes, but has been obscured with the TV LAND logo. For the younger members of Sitcoms Online, cigarette advertising last appeared on TV on New Year's Eve 1970. By 1/1/71 they were gone forever. Some may recall that KENT cigarettes bought lots of advertising on the TONIGHT SHOW that evening, pre-midnight, of course....but I digress.

11-09-2004, 10:28 PM	#3
LATTML Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 07, 2003 Posts: 19	Actually, the ABC years were seen in syndication in the early '90s, right after Nick at Night dropped the usual syndication package. The pre-Kathy years aired on the Channel America TV Network. It was (I'm not even sure it exists anymore) a network of sorts that provided programing for low-power UHF stations. Much of that programming consisted of '50s TV shows. For example, it also aired "Mr. and Mrs. North," the original "Dragnet," "Racket Squad," etc. I taped a bunch of the Danny Thomas Show espoides that ran at the time. As for the commerical intro the above poster mentioned, MRFD was co-sponsored by the American Tobacco Company and Dodge. They would alternate weekly, and the show open would start with about a 60-second commerical for that week's prime sponsor. But after that, in efffect, commerical, the open was standard: words to the effect of, "Danny Thomas, starring as Danny Williams, Jean Hagen as his wife, and Sherry Jackson and Rusty Hamer as their children in, Make Room for Daddy." When CA aired them, they simply started with the standardized portion of the intro, so the sponsor's commerical wasn't really an issue. And I don't know if anyone owns these anymore. If you look in any dollar store, you'll find a few MRFD DVDs from the Jean Hagen years; they usually have three episodes (including the original Dodge/Pall Mall opens) and generally sell for $1 to $3. They're obviously not pirate copies. Those types of DVDs generally feature presenations which have passed into the public domain, such as "It's A Wonderful Life" and the rest. It appears that's what happened witrh the ABC years, though I don't know for sure.

09-25-2005, 12:20 PM	#5
bencasey Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: Long Beach Posts: 1,692	Nothing "happened to them". Danny didn't want them seen for some reason and his heirs are just following his wishes by not making them available. The Channel America run was of whatever PD episodes people could get their hands on and they did not constitute a legit syndication property.

10-08-2005, 04:58 AM	#7
Marjorie Lord Fan Member Forum Cub Join Date: Oct 08, 2005 Posts: 2	Does anyone know the episode where Kathy takes a job because she`s mad at Danny? I think at the end of the show she`s on the sofa and Danny`s giving her a foot massage. Is it available on tape?

10-09-2005, 05:26 AM	#9
Marjorie Lord Fan Member Forum Cub Join Date: Oct 08, 2005 Posts: 2	Thanks for the information.

03-17-2006, 12:38 PM	#12
bencasey Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: Long Beach Posts: 1,692	That above explanation really does make the most sense. The first example of revisionist history? Also, once they got Family #2, they couldn't wait to get rid of Sherry Jackson. She isn't in a lot of 5th season episodes and then she is shipped off to college (at age 16!) after the season. I wonder what was up with that. And when they did bring the character back for a year it was with a different actress. Story I heard is that even at her young age, her figure put Marjorie Lord's to shame. Also, TV didn't really know how to deal with sexy teenage girls in the 1950s so it was easier to just write her out. But getting back to the missing 4 seasons, I know syndicators who have tried to license the shows and they were turned down. Danny didn't want them seen and his heirs are honoring his wishes to keep them out of circulation. Another show with a similar issue is The Joey Bishop Show. Joey hated the first season format and doesn't want them shown. Also, Marlo Thomas didn't like her nose in those shows and she doesn't want them out there either.

03-25-2006, 09:40 PM	#14
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	What happened was that the show finished its run with over 300 episodes in its library. It was difficult to sell local stations a syndication package with so many episodes when you're charging per episode. So they dropped some episodes from the package (a very common practice at the time - see "Bonanza", "My Three Sons", "Petticoat Junction"). Since "The Danny Thomas Show" did become a top 10 show until it moved to CBS, with Marjorie Lord as Mrs. Williams, it made sense to drop the earlier, less-popular episodes from the syndication package. Also, since Jean Hagen (Margaret) owned a percentage of the earlier shows, keeping those episodes out of syndication meant that Danny's production company didn't have to share any profits with her.

03-27-2006, 04:02 PM	#15
KSCOTT Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 01, 2005 Location: WASHINGTON, D.C. AREA Posts: 17	TV GUY: Thanks! for clearing that up for me. I didn't know Jean Hagen owned a percentage of the earlier shows. Well now! that explains the mystery.