Niles & Daphne make Frasier jump the shark - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

barwars · 08-19-2004, 07:37 PM

is it true??

Chambers · 08-19-2004, 07:51 PM

Relatively speaking, IMO, yes. "Relatively" because Frasier was still a good show and very watchable....just not as good.

barwars · 08-19-2004, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chambers
Relatively speaking, IMO, yes. "Relatively" because Frasier was still a good show and very watchable....just not as good.

took the words right out of my mouth.
well, with better grammar added.

Frasier'sHairyMan · 08-20-2004, 11:11 AM

Maybe I'm weird but I liked the fact that they got together. The tension that was between them was good but I always found myself screaming, " Oh, just kiss her for crying out loud!!!!!" If you liked the sexual tension between them then you probobly wanted to see them together and that's what the writers gave us. Well, that's how I feel anyway.

As for the show jumping because "Niles' heart hurts", I don't think it did then either. Frasier, as a whole, was a very smart and sophisticated show, and I think they did a great job with that episode. One thing I hate about sitcoms is the fact that they are about real life, but some of them don't even border on reality. Not EVERYTHING in reality is funny. Like every other episode, I walked away from that one thinking about life, half crying and half smiling. If anything it made the show more human.

God I hope that makes sense...

Brian Damage · 08-22-2004, 04:20 PM

Not at all! Frasier never ever never ever ever never jumped the shark!!!

Frasierfan1983 · 08-24-2004, 07:18 PM

It really bugs me when someone says "Frasier jumped the shark when so-and-so totally changed".

Of course you don't want characters to lose all their original traits, but you can't have a sitcom running for over a decade without them evolving a little. After all, that makes it more realistic. Take Niles and Daphne (probably the two most criticised characters for "changing" in the later seasons). They were so different to each other to begin with that it's only natural that they would both become a little more like each other once they were in a long term relationship, and then marriage. Niles basically grew up a bit and lost some of his stuffiness (not all, thankfully - especially around his brother), while Daphne integrated herself a little into his lifestyle, again, not completely losing her own eccentricities.

Some of the changes could perhaps have gone better (I still can't come to terms with the idea of Niles caring for a pigeon or taking a liking to fast food!) but I still welcome them. It's nice to see real growth in character in such a fantastic sitcom. Plus, it makes it all the more rewarding when their original personality traits peep through.

peter may · 08-24-2004, 07:49 PM

Hmm I dont think Niles & Daphne did it single handedly. I found Frasier becoming a bit unlikeable, especially in seasonsn 8 - 10 when nearly every line he shouted instead of spoke. The writers made him waaay too grumpy

Still after 230+ episodes its gonna start to get stale, our dreadfull British sitcoms only get about 30 episodes tops and theyre supposedly called "classics" such as Fawlty Towers.

What a load of crap that is!

Chambers · 08-24-2004, 08:20 PM

True about British sitcoms - but I like them anyway (well, some of them).

By the way - I LOVE YOUR AVATAR.

And look, barwars - it's Bulldog!!

barwars · 08-24-2004, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chambers
True about British sitcoms - but I like them anyway (well, some of them).

By the way - I LOVE YOUR AVATAR.

And look, barwars - it's Bulldog!!

Great avatar is right, and YES!! Bulldog!! I cant believe they used that pic for the Season 3 box and cut out Bulldog!!

Frasierfan1983 · 08-25-2004, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by peter may
Hmm I dont think Niles & Daphne did it single handedly. I found Frasier becoming a bit unlikeable, especially in seasonsn 8 - 10 when nearly every line he shouted instead of spoke. The writers made him waaay too grumpy

Still after 230+ episodes its gonna start to get stale, our dreadfull British sitcoms only get about 30 episodes tops and theyre supposedly called "classics" such as Fawlty Towers. What a load of crap that is!

Oh, I agree about Frasier, as you can see on the "Is Frasier (the character) becoming unlikeable?" thread. Seasons 8 to 10, absolutely. Unlike Niles and Daphne, he didn't really have an excuse to become that way either. He just suddenly started shouting. What had once been the cute rivalry between him and Niles became painful to watch as he acted like a spoiled brat. "Room Full of Heroes" (The Season 9 ep with the Halloween party where Niles dresses up as Martin) is probably the absolute low for Frasier's attitude, and as a result is perhaps my least favourite episode. To boot, in the end Niles was made to look bad and we were supposed to side with Frasier.

I found that impossible, just as I did in the car lot one from Season 10. Luckily, it wasn't in every episode. I'm currently rewatching Season 10 (as it's being repeated on Ch4) and I think he's okay towards the end of it. Or maybe it just depended who was writing each episode! Actually, in most of them Kelsey Grammer was just fine - it's really a case of a few spoiling the batch. Therefore, I don't really count it as a change in the character in the same way as with Niles and Daphne. At least, whatever it was, he seemed to be over it by Season 11!

Frasierfan1983 · 08-25-2004, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Still after 230+ episodes its gonna start to get stale, our dreadfull British sitcoms only get about 30 episodes tops and theyre supposedly called "classics" such as Fawlty Towers.

What a load of crap that is!

[/B]

Fawlty Towers really was a classic!

Personally I think 12 episodes were too few, but it's a different matter when there's only one writer or a duo writing them all.

Our current sitcoms, however, are all utter garbage from what I've seen. 'My Family' is the only show written "American Style" by a team, but I've never liked that one much either. I also don't like a lot of the current British sketch comedy. I'm afraid I've gone American since the mid-nineties as far as comedy is concerned. I know they must have a lot of their own rubbish too, but at least we usually receive the good ones over here.

peter may · 08-25-2004, 07:40 AM

Nice to see a fellow Brit on here

Yeah a good one to look out for over here is Whoopi, I think that may be airing soon

Frasierfan1983 · 08-25-2004, 09:40 AM

Haha, I've been here on and off for a while.

Remember when Channel 4 shamelessly removed Frasier from it's trademark timeslot at the start of last year? I started a thread complaining about it here and I'm fairly certain you responded.

Chambers · 08-25-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frasierfan1983
Fawlty Towers really was a classic!

Personally I think 12 episodes were too few, but it's a different matter when there's only one writer or a duo writing them all.

Our current sitcoms, however, are all utter garbage from what I've seen. 'My Family' is the only show written "American Style" by a team, but I've never liked that one much either. I also don't like a lot of the current British sketch comedy. I'm afraid I've gone American since the mid-nineties as far as comedy is concerned. I know they must have a lot of their own rubbish too, but at least we usually receive the good ones over here.

1. I also love Fawlty Towers.
2. I hate "American Style" Bitish sitcoms. They feel so cheap.
3. I agree about British TV importing the cream of the crop of American sitcoms. Lucky for me that I was introduced to my favorite US sitcoms while I was growing up in the UK. Of course, there were a lot of classics I didn't get to see: shows like Sanford and Son, All in the Family, etc.

Chambers · 08-25-2004, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by peter may
Nice to see a fellow Brit on here

Yeah a good one to look out for over here is Whoopi, I think that may be airing soon

I really liked that show. Certainly not the best show ever, but one of the best out of the crap that's been airing lately. They shouldn't have cancelled it.

08-19-2004, 07:37 PM	#1
barwars .. Forum Star Join Date: May 04, 2002 Posts: 13,273	Niles & Daphne make Frasier jump the shark is it true??

08-19-2004, 07:51 PM	#2
Chambers The Crane Trinity Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 27, 2004 Location: Where everybody knows a Crane. Posts: 5,427	Relatively speaking, IMO, yes. "Relatively" because Frasier was still a good show and very watchable....just not as good.
	__________________ Member of the "God, Lilith is so ing cool" Fan Club Where everybody knows your tossed salads and scrambled eggs. FREEDOM OF THOUGHT blank

08-24-2004, 07:18 PM	#6
Frasierfan1983 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 16, 2002 Location: UK Posts: 169	It really bugs me when someone says "Frasier jumped the shark when so-and-so totally changed". Of course you don't want characters to lose all their original traits, but you can't have a sitcom running for over a decade without them evolving a little. After all, that makes it more realistic. Take Niles and Daphne (probably the two most criticised characters for "changing" in the later seasons). They were so different to each other to begin with that it's only natural that they would both become a little more like each other once they were in a long term relationship, and then marriage. Niles basically grew up a bit and lost some of his stuffiness (not all, thankfully - especially around his brother), while Daphne integrated herself a little into his lifestyle, again, not completely losing her own eccentricities. Some of the changes could perhaps have gone better (I still can't come to terms with the idea of Niles caring for a pigeon or taking a liking to fast food!) but I still welcome them. It's nice to see real growth in character in such a fantastic sitcom. Plus, it makes it all the more rewarding when their original personality traits peep through.
	__________________ Martin: Can you imagine? Lilith's and my kid would be brother to you and Niles AND Freddie. Frasier: What are you talking about? Martin: And if you and Lilith got back together, you'd be his step-father AND his brother, and Niles would be your son... and his own uncle! It's almost worth doing just so that I can tell the story!

08-20-2004, 11:11 AM	#4
Frasier'sHairyMan Three Cheers Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 27, 2004 Location: New York Posts: 140	Maybe I'm weird but I liked the fact that they got together. The tension that was between them was good but I always found myself screaming, " Oh, just kiss her for crying out loud!!!!!" If you liked the sexual tension between them then you probobly wanted to see them together and that's what the writers gave us. Well, that's how I feel anyway. As for the show jumping because "Niles' heart hurts", I don't think it did then either. Frasier, as a whole, was a very smart and sophisticated show, and I think they did a great job with that episode. One thing I hate about sitcoms is the fact that they are about real life, but some of them don't even border on reality. Not EVERYTHING in reality is funny. Like every other episode, I walked away from that one thinking about life, half crying and half smiling. If anything it made the show more human. God I hope that makes sense...

08-22-2004, 04:20 PM	#5
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	Not at all! Frasier never ever never ever ever never jumped the shark!!!

08-24-2004, 07:49 PM	#7
peter may The SO Limey Senior Member Join Date: Feb 26, 2002 Location: LONDON Posts: 1,883	Hmm I dont think Niles & Daphne did it single handedly. I found Frasier becoming a bit unlikeable, especially in seasonsn 8 - 10 when nearly every line he shouted instead of spoke. The writers made him waaay too grumpy Still after 230+ episodes its gonna start to get stale, our dreadfull British sitcoms only get about 30 episodes tops and theyre supposedly called "classics" such as Fawlty Towers. What a load of crap that is!

08-24-2004, 08:20 PM	#8
Chambers The Crane Trinity Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 27, 2004 Location: Where everybody knows a Crane. Posts: 5,427	True about British sitcoms - but I like them anyway (well, some of them). By the way - I LOVE YOUR AVATAR. And look, barwars - it's Bulldog!!

08-25-2004, 07:40 AM	#12
peter may The SO Limey Senior Member Join Date: Feb 26, 2002 Location: LONDON Posts: 1,883	Nice to see a fellow Brit on here Yeah a good one to look out for over here is Whoopi, I think that may be airing soon

08-25-2004, 09:40 AM	#13
Frasierfan1983 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 16, 2002 Location: UK Posts: 169	Haha, I've been here on and off for a while. Remember when Channel 4 shamelessly removed Frasier from it's trademark timeslot at the start of last year? I started a thread complaining about it here and I'm fairly certain you responded.