"Shelley Long wasn't liked?"

[Chambers]

Princess Feenster asked:
"What happened off the set with the cast? Shelley Long wasn't liked??"


Yeah...I was so upset when I found out, but if you think about it it makes perfect sense in that it parallels what happens on Cheers. Lemme try to explain what happened.

There are many theories on why it all happened. Shelley Long is a perfectionist for one - a workaholic and kinda neurotic- and that didn't rub the right way with the rest of the cast who had no respect for the rehersal process. But if you see the bloopers on the season 2 dvd she doesn't seen like the anal perfectionist people make her out to be.

Also, she was getting a lot more attention from critics and media, who praised her performance. This may have caused some jealousy and some say she thought she was too good for TV.

You also have to remember that she was the only feminine female character on that show until Rebecca. Carla didn't need any special wardrobe or makeup. Shelley did. And the rest of the cast got annoyed at her for spending so much time in makeup and stuff.

Most importantly, I really believe the actors started to behave like the characters they played off-screen as well. Diane never fit in - it was always the boy's club. In real life she didn't fit in either.

By the 5th season, the guy who played Eddie Lebec said he was surprised to see that none of the other cast members talked to her.

Oh, one more thing. She always had an opinion about what should happen next on the show with Sam and Diane - the writers thought that was annoying. But then again, the writers said that they used to go to her for ideas when they were in trouble with a script. They couldn't ignore her comedic instincts. She also didn't want Frasier to become a regular - she thought two intellectuals in the bar would hurt Diane's vitality...which is kinda true...but I still love Frasier.

So that's pretty much what happened. If anybody else can think of something, please add on.

BUT, despite all of this, I'm still a huge Shelley Long fan. Don't forget that. So don't anybody go bashing her on this thread, ok?

[dlemond]

I think it funny that Shelley didn't want Frasier to become a regular character because "she thought two intellectuals in the bar would hurt Diane's vitality."

I think maybe Shelley fails to recognize that Diane is a psuedo-intellectual who is always being shown not be as smart or perceptive as she thinks she is.

Frasier was a true intellectual- a flawed character no doubt- but he could rip her little pontifications to shreds if he chose.
He was to be just a good supporting character to throw out counterpoint- so what is wrong with that?

Nothing as far as I saw.
Everyone knew Diane was full of it half the time and they called it on her too.

At least Frasier could offer insights to the other characters that actually had validity and he gave the men some comradery as their brilliant guy friend- all of then being a little short of genius.

And of course, Frasier was there to react to Cliff's absurdities too, as well as the others and their quirks.

That is until they developed his character and gave him more prominent storylines.
And we all saw what that evolved into.

[Moondance]

Thank you, DianeDiane

Despite all that, I still love Shelley Long, too. She's a great actress! I saw the out-takes on the 2nd season dvd and she looked like she was having fun.

Thanks again for the info....

Sam and Diane forever!!!

Feen

[Chambers]

Yes, Dlemond, I agree with what you said about Frasier.

But Shelley did know that Diane was a pseudo-intellectual- some of her funniest moments were when she was completely "out there" and Shelley portrayed that perfectly by being over-the-top. She even said in an interview that Diane was a pain in the butt.

However, I still see her point of view when it comes to Frasier. You have to admit that anybody who focuses so much energy on her brain and nothing else like Diane did has to be some kind of intellectual - even though Frasier obviously had more substance in psychology, Diane still was an intellectual when it came to literature, art, feminism and morals (she really was the voice of morality and reason most of the time until Frasier came along to help). The point was that Diane was the misfit of the group - that was central to the plot of Cheers and the chemistry between the characters. When Frasier came along he was an even bigger misfit at first. He spoke the same intellectual language as Diane and behaved in the same hoity-toity manner - and it made him stick out more because he was a guy. However, Frasier eventually became one the boys in the bar - and I think the writers did this partly because they saw the same issue Shelley did. So in the end, Diane kept her vitality by continuing to be the main misfit in the bar.

But this discussion also makes me realize how much Cheers was a boy's club. To fit in, you had to act like a guy - Carla was the only woman who really fit in and she acted like one of them. She was never feminine like Diane. Frasier was able to cross over because he was a guy. Diane would never be part of the club.

[Brian Damage]

Rebecca fit in a little I guess.

[BebeSternin]

Yeah. Rebecca did fit in a lot better then Diane. Not at first though. But eventually, Rebecca became shockingly close to Carla. And Woody always liked and respected her, which helped.

Diane never really had that. The only people she was close to were Sam and Coach. Well, and Frasier, but he didn't like her so much after their almost wedding.

[barwars]

Lilith never fit in, until later.
She was always kind of "weird".... but so was Cliff.

[Chambers]

Originally posted by BebeSternin

Diane never really had that. The only people she was close to were Sam and Coach. Well, and Frasier, but he didn't like her so much after their almost wedding.

Don't forget Woody - he respected and liked her too - but then again, Woody was such a nice boy, he could never not like anyone. On the set Woody and Shelley apparently got along too.

[Moondance]

I was thinking about Lilith as well...she was the opposite of Diane in the perkiness departmant, LOL!!!!!


Feen