April 19, 2004 Episode - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Contributor · 04-19-2004, 10:57 PM

Did anybody else notice Debra's lack of etiquette in the April 19, 2004 episode of Everybody Loves Raymond (ELR)?

The fact that Marie was the hostess didn't prevent Debra from improperly ordering Ray to help set the table. It wasn't Debra's domain to ask Ray to set the table.

Debra has some nerve. She doesn't read Ray's column. She incessantly ridicules Ray's intelligence. And she wonders why Ray wouldn't disclose to her that he was thinking of writing a book.

Pat made some excellent points to Raymond in the ERL episode of April 19, 2004.

I'm wondering if Phil Rosenthal and Ray are using the scripts to get back at Patricia Heaton, Brad Garrett, Doris Roberts and Peter Boyle for the alleged holdouts at the start of the season. This is the second episode this season that Raymond's character chastised the conduct of the rest of the family.

The characters of Debra (to my delight), Robert, Marie and Frank are really starting to look small.

HuntingtonM15 · 04-20-2004, 07:13 AM

I watch the show because I enjoy it and it makes me laugh. I don't watch the show to deeply analyze it. I don't think I would enjoy any show if I did that. I found this episode to be hilarious. Pat is such a great character. I loved the part when she said something like, "What I wouldn't give to have been a fly on the wall in that room...excuse my language."

Pentimento · 04-20-2004, 10:35 AM

This used to be my favorite sitcom, but I've found myself liking it less and less, particularly this season, and it is due to the shift in the supporting characters' temperaments that you've pointed out. Everyone, even Debra, just seems so much more petty and annoying than before. I first noticed the change with Robert -- he's always been my least favorite, but lately his jealousy toward Raymond hasn't even been remotely funny, just irritating -- and now the others have gotten more surly as well. (You know a good show has gone bad when the most watchable supporting player is Georgia Engel.)

It's an interesting theory that the writers/producers might be doing it to retaliate against the cast for holding out for more money. It sure would explain a lot.

HuntingtonM15 · 04-20-2004, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pentimento
This used to be my favorite sitcom, but I've found myself liking it less and less, particularly this season, and it is due to the shift in the supporting characters' temperaments that you've pointed out. Everyone, even Debra, just seems so much more petty and annoying than before. I first noticed the change with Robert -- he's always been my least favorite, but lately his jealousy toward Raymond hasn't even been remotely funny, just irritating -- and now the others have gotten more surly as well. (You know a good show has gone bad when the most watchable supporting player is Georgia Engel.)

It's an interesting theory that the writers/producers might be doing it to retaliate against the cast for holding out for more money. It sure would explain a lot.

I agree with you about Robert. I haven't found him to be very funny at all this season. But I disagree about everyone else. I still find them to be equally enjoyable. I also think that Georgia Engel is a great actress, so it doesn't surprise me that I like her character.

Pentimento · 04-20-2004, 12:33 PM

HuntingtonM15:

You're probably right not to analyze the show. I wish I could turn off that nagging little part of my brain sometimes and just enjoy the humor. But, since I am in an analytical mode

...

My remark about Georgia Engel wasn't meant as a criticism of her acting ability. I loved her in The Mary Tyler Moore Show and I've always thought her portrayal of Georgette provided the perfect balance to Ted Baxter's blustery egotism. She's very good at what she does. It's just that she's rarely been what I would consider a dominant presence in any scene she's in. With all the forceful personalities running around in ELR, her recurring role is generally reduced to that of a prop with the occasional quiet line to utter. She and Raymond totally took over last night's episode, though, which was great for fans of Georgia Engel but a little disconcerting for longtime fans of the show.

I still like Debra, but she isn't the voice of reason that she was in the early seasons. She has more personality now, but I wish the writers hadn't found it necessary to sacrifice some of her intelligence and grace in order to make her a more comedic character.

Meanwhile, I think Frank and Marie have become caricatures of their former selves -- they still have all their shortcomings but they have less depth than before. They're still funny, but not the multi-dimensional characters that they once were.

FamilyTiesGOP · 04-20-2004, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Contributor
Did anybody else notice Debra's lack of etiquette in the April 19, 2004 episode of Everybody Loves Raymond (ELR)?

The fact that Marie was the hostess didn't prevent Debra from improperly ordering Ray to help set the table. It wasn't Debra's domain to ask Ray to set the table.

Debra has some nerve. She doesn't read Ray's column. She incessantly ridicules Ray's intelligence. And she wonders why Ray wouldn't disclose to her that he was thinking of writing a book.

Pat made some excellent points to Raymond in the ERL episode of April 19, 2004.

I'm wondering if Phil Rosenthal and Ray are using the scripts to get back at Patricia Heaton, Brad Garrett, Doris Roberts and Peter Boyle for the alleged holdouts at the start of the season. This is the second episode this season that Raymond's character chastised the conduct of the rest of the family.

The characters of Debra (to my delight), Robert, Marie and Frank are really starting to look small.

I don't think anybody in America noticed anything about Debra's etiquette on that show. She is the only one on the show with any etiuette anyway.

If Debra doesn't read Ray's column it is probably because she doesn't like or know anything about sports, I don't think it has anything to do with her making fun of Ray's intelligence.

I'm sure that if Phil and Ray were trying to get back at the rest of them, then they would not want to keep doing the show. Raymond doesn't want to, but the rest want to keep it going. Besides I don't think Ray's personality is all about getting revenge.

And it is just a TV show.

04-19-2004, 10:57 PM	#1
Contributor Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 04, 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 35	April 19, 2004 Episode Did anybody else notice Debra's lack of etiquette in the April 19, 2004 episode of Everybody Loves Raymond (ELR)? The fact that Marie was the hostess didn't prevent Debra from improperly ordering Ray to help set the table. It wasn't Debra's domain to ask Ray to set the table. Debra has some nerve. She doesn't read Ray's column. She incessantly ridicules Ray's intelligence. And she wonders why Ray wouldn't disclose to her that he was thinking of writing a book. Pat made some excellent points to Raymond in the ERL episode of April 19, 2004. I'm wondering if Phil Rosenthal and Ray are using the scripts to get back at Patricia Heaton, Brad Garrett, Doris Roberts and Peter Boyle for the alleged holdouts at the start of the season. This is the second episode this season that Raymond's character chastised the conduct of the rest of the family. The characters of Debra (to my delight), Robert, Marie and Frank are really starting to look small.

04-20-2004, 07:13 AM	#2
HuntingtonM15 That Bothers Me Moderator Forum Star Join Date: Jun 20, 2003 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 11,060	I watch the show because I enjoy it and it makes me laugh. I don't watch the show to deeply analyze it. I don't think I would enjoy any show if I did that. I found this episode to be hilarious. Pat is such a great character. I loved the part when she said something like, "What I wouldn't give to have been a fly on the wall in that room...excuse my language."

04-20-2004, 10:35 AM	#3
Pentimento Member Forum Regular Join Date: Feb 16, 2004 Location: The Big Valley Posts: 606	This used to be my favorite sitcom, but I've found myself liking it less and less, particularly this season, and it is due to the shift in the supporting characters' temperaments that you've pointed out. Everyone, even Debra, just seems so much more petty and annoying than before. I first noticed the change with Robert -- he's always been my least favorite, but lately his jealousy toward Raymond hasn't even been remotely funny, just irritating -- and now the others have gotten more surly as well. (You know a good show has gone bad when the most watchable supporting player is Georgia Engel.) It's an interesting theory that the writers/producers might be doing it to retaliate against the cast for holding out for more money. It sure would explain a lot.

04-20-2004, 12:33 PM	#5
Pentimento Member Forum Regular Join Date: Feb 16, 2004 Location: The Big Valley Posts: 606	HuntingtonM15: You're probably right not to analyze the show. I wish I could turn off that nagging little part of my brain sometimes and just enjoy the humor. But, since I am in an analytical mode ... My remark about Georgia Engel wasn't meant as a criticism of her acting ability. I loved her in The Mary Tyler Moore Show and I've always thought her portrayal of Georgette provided the perfect balance to Ted Baxter's blustery egotism. She's very good at what she does. It's just that she's rarely been what I would consider a dominant presence in any scene she's in. With all the forceful personalities running around in ELR, her recurring role is generally reduced to that of a prop with the occasional quiet line to utter. She and Raymond totally took over last night's episode, though, which was great for fans of Georgia Engel but a little disconcerting for longtime fans of the show. I still like Debra, but she isn't the voice of reason that she was in the early seasons. She has more personality now, but I wish the writers hadn't found it necessary to sacrifice some of her intelligence and grace in order to make her a more comedic character. Meanwhile, I think Frank and Marie have become caricatures of their former selves -- they still have all their shortcomings but they have less depth than before. They're still funny, but not the multi-dimensional characters that they once were.