When Did It Start to Go Bad? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

trekkie · 04-11-2004, 11:32 PM

Now, don't get me wrong: I love W&G. A good episode every now and then and some great one-liners. But the show isn't nearly as good as it once was. The quality of writing has gone downhill; ity's no longer "smart;" and, as a result, the storylines/episodes are not very good. Example: the Barry Manilow concert episode. Totally un-funny. Same w/the recent one where Jack and Karen are learning how to dance.
What do you think happened? When do you think W&G began its downfall? I mean, if one compares the earlier seasons to now, a huuuuuuuuge difference can be seen.

JD2635 · 04-12-2004, 02:32 AM

It went downhill when the two-part Leo episode and after the begginning of this season premiere episode. It was funny but not laugh as loud funny anymore. Th show should wrap-up within the next year. However I will watch both That '70s Show and Will & Grace until the end. Thesse two shows kick butt on FOX and NBC!

trekkie · 04-12-2004, 02:42 AM

True, but I must say that right now, That 70's Show is loads funnier than W&G

!@

Will and Grace Fanatic · 04-14-2004, 10:24 PM

Many people have different thoughts on this. I feel still the show is pretty good but not as funny as it use to be. I think back in season 4 is when the bad episodes started to happen.

trekkie · 04-14-2004, 10:39 PM

Well, compared to everything else on TV, in terms of sitcoms in production, W&G is one of the best (along with Frasier -- which, thanks to the return of Christopher Lloyd as writer,. has seen a creative resurgence -- and That 70's Show). Still, though, it has gotten pretty bad. There are so many episodes now that are as boring and un-funny as the one where the gang stands in line for a Barry Manilow concert.

Which is most likely why the ratings have seen a dramatic drop.

TJL · 04-15-2004, 05:31 AM

Too many celebrity cameos and guest stars for my taste. They shouldn't have to rely on stunt casting every week.

I think Grace's marriage signaled the beginning of the end.
Plus having Grace in such a limited role (due to Debra Messings pregnancy, she just sat around) forced the writers to devote more time to the other characters.
I can't wait to see how they are going to do the last few eps (including Karen's wedding) without Debra Messing present.

trekkie · 04-15-2004, 10:24 AM

Yeah, it's the physical comedy of Debra Messing that has always been one of the show's greatest assets. I honestly believe that Messing belongs right up there with Lucille Ball, Mary Tyler Moore and Carol Burnett. Her timing, great facial expressions, awesome dialogue delivery and physical stuff is right on. Even when she's been pregnant, Grace still stole the show.

JD2635 · 05-04-2004, 01:00 AM

Too many celebrities and too much inconsistency really blew the shopw for mew. It was the end of the 5th season where they were going to the islands and thus Rosario and Karen were captured then from there on, it just was not as funny as it is anymore. Esdpicially with the J.Lo attention that is really too distracting. So with all do respect, W&G from season 6- D+ Season's 1-middle of season 5 A+ Mid season5-end season 5 C+. The show needs to be put to rest after next year.

IheartMoonlighting · 05-07-2004, 01:38 AM

1. Stunt Casting has ruined the show.
2. The creators of the show left and went on to do Good Morning, Miami. Look at the timing, this is when Will and Grace started to go downhill. It's always bad when the creator of the show tries to do too many things at once.
3. Grace's Marriage. The fans did not like Leo. In fact, we didn't have a chance to like him. One second, he was going out with Grace, the next second, they were getting married. It was nothing more than a sweeps gimmick.
4. The writers ran out of ideas.

I remain a loyal fan of the show but I do want them to listen to the fans. Maybe it will take the ultimate wake up call: Emmy shutout.

Chambers · 05-22-2004, 08:00 PM

I love the show too but have to agree that it has started to go bad. I think it's important to remember that the premise of the show really propelled it during the first couple of years - two gay main characters. Now that that's not a big deal anymore for its audience, and now that we all realize that there's a apparently a limit on how gay you can go on TV, the show has started to lose its way. It is also getting increasingly politically incorrect - it used to be funny and poignant - but now it just seems like a bunch of hot air. For how much longer can Karen keep treating Rosario like that and still have it be a purposeful parody? Oh well...it was good while it lasted.

trekkie · 05-22-2004, 08:46 PM

The writing isn't even clever anymore. It used to be witty, funny and unexpecting. Now ... it's like ... can't think of a clever joke, how many times do they expect us to suddenly laugh at Jack touching Karen or saying the word "p**is"? When the majority of the writing isn't funny to begin with, how can out-of-the-blue references to genetalia be funny?

spookystarbuck · 05-24-2004, 05:01 AM

I still think that it is the best show on TV but I do agree that it is going a little downhill. I think that it was when more started happening with Grace - Leo etc.
It got very monotonous and I don't think he was introduced properly as a character.
The lines are getting more predictable and there doesn't seem to be as many witty jokes - non that you can't think up yourselves. I also agree with IheartMoonlighting that when the writers "bit off more than they could chew" by working on something else it went downhill. They should have stuck with the great show they had created first.

Rene · 07-13-2004, 05:27 PM

the show went stale when grace married leo it just used to be soooooooo funny i miss it when it was clever and made you go-

and

AnaheimPMWitch · 07-13-2004, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by darlene_conner
the show went stale when grace married leo it just used to be soooooooo funny i miss it when it was clever and made you go- and

I agree with you I stopped watching the show because of Leo

04-11-2004, 11:32 PM	#1
trekkie Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 22, 2003 Posts: 224	When Did It Start to Go Bad? Now, don't get me wrong: I love W&G. A good episode every now and then and some great one-liners. But the show isn't nearly as good as it once was. The quality of writing has gone downhill; ity's no longer "smart;" and, as a result, the storylines/episodes are not very good. Example: the Barry Manilow concert episode. Totally un-funny. Same w/the recent one where Jack and Karen are learning how to dance. What do you think happened? When do you think W&G began its downfall? I mean, if one compares the earlier seasons to now, a huuuuuuuuge difference can be seen.
	__________________ Get a VAULT DISNEY or DISNEY FAMILY CHANNEL on television: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/preservethemagic "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything; you've got to be your own man, not a puppet on a string" -- Aaron Tippin

04-14-2004, 10:24 PM	#4
Will and Grace Fanatic be happy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 15, 2002 Location: seattle, washington Posts: 2,746	Many people have different thoughts on this. I feel still the show is pretty good but not as funny as it use to be. I think back in season 4 is when the bad episodes started to happen.
	__________________ love is love

04-15-2004, 05:31 AM	#6
TJL Suburbanite Extrordinaire Forum Star Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: New Jersey - the cradle of civilization Posts: 16,588	Too many celebrity cameos and guest stars for my taste. They shouldn't have to rely on stunt casting every week. I think Grace's marriage signaled the beginning of the end. Plus having Grace in such a limited role (due to Debra Messings pregnancy, she just sat around) forced the writers to devote more time to the other characters. I can't wait to see how they are going to do the last few eps (including Karen's wedding) without Debra Messing present.
	__________________ "I think I'll stroll up to the front to see how the shooting's going..." - Capt. Benjamin Franklin "Hawkeye" Pierce Read my blogs! http://centralparkamisguide.com/ http://dvdcriticscorner.com Visit me on Facebook!http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=641138880 Hey, I do the tweet thing too! http://twitter.com/TomLevier My shop of handmade items! http://www.etsy.com/shop/ColdGarageCreations

05-07-2004, 01:38 AM	#9
IheartMoonlighting David & Maddie Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 01, 2002 Location: Blue Moon Detective Agency Posts: 318	1. Stunt Casting has ruined the show. 2. The creators of the show left and went on to do Good Morning, Miami. Look at the timing, this is when Will and Grace started to go downhill. It's always bad when the creator of the show tries to do too many things at once. 3. Grace's Marriage. The fans did not like Leo. In fact, we didn't have a chance to like him. One second, he was going out with Grace, the next second, they were getting married. It was nothing more than a sweeps gimmick. 4. The writers ran out of ideas. I remain a loyal fan of the show but I do want them to listen to the fans. Maybe it will take the ultimate wake up call: Emmy shutout.
	__________________ http://www.moonlightingdvd.com

05-22-2004, 08:00 PM	#10
Chambers The Crane Trinity Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 27, 2004 Location: Where everybody knows a Crane. Posts: 5,427	I love the show too but have to agree that it has started to go bad. I think it's important to remember that the premise of the show really propelled it during the first couple of years - two gay main characters. Now that that's not a big deal anymore for its audience, and now that we all realize that there's a apparently a limit on how gay you can go on TV, the show has started to lose its way. It is also getting increasingly politically incorrect - it used to be funny and poignant - but now it just seems like a bunch of hot air. For how much longer can Karen keep treating Rosario like that and still have it be a purposeful parody? Oh well...it was good while it lasted.
	__________________ Member of the "God, Lilith is so ing cool" Fan Club Where everybody knows your tossed salads and scrambled eggs. FREEDOM OF THOUGHT blank

04-12-2004, 02:32 AM	#2
JD2635 Banned Banned!! Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 03, 2003 Location: Porterville, CA Posts: 315	It went downhill when the two-part Leo episode and after the begginning of this season premiere episode. It was funny but not laugh as loud funny anymore. Th show should wrap-up within the next year. However I will watch both That '70s Show and Will & Grace until the end. Thesse two shows kick butt on FOX and NBC!

04-12-2004, 02:42 AM	#3
trekkie Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 22, 2003 Posts: 224	True, but I must say that right now, That 70's Show is loads funnier than W&G !@

04-14-2004, 10:39 PM	#5
trekkie Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 22, 2003 Posts: 224	Well, compared to everything else on TV, in terms of sitcoms in production, W&G is one of the best (along with Frasier -- which, thanks to the return of Christopher Lloyd as writer,. has seen a creative resurgence -- and That 70's Show). Still, though, it has gotten pretty bad. There are so many episodes now that are as boring and un-funny as the one where the gang stands in line for a Barry Manilow concert. Which is most likely why the ratings have seen a dramatic drop.

04-15-2004, 10:24 AM	#7
trekkie Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 22, 2003 Posts: 224	Yeah, it's the physical comedy of Debra Messing that has always been one of the show's greatest assets. I honestly believe that Messing belongs right up there with Lucille Ball, Mary Tyler Moore and Carol Burnett. Her timing, great facial expressions, awesome dialogue delivery and physical stuff is right on. Even when she's been pregnant, Grace still stole the show.

05-04-2004, 01:00 AM	#8
JD2635 Banned Banned!! Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 03, 2003 Location: Porterville, CA Posts: 315	Too many celebrities and too much inconsistency really blew the shopw for mew. It was the end of the 5th season where they were going to the islands and thus Rosario and Karen were captured then from there on, it just was not as funny as it is anymore. Esdpicially with the J.Lo attention that is really too distracting. So with all do respect, W&G from season 6- D+ Season's 1-middle of season 5 A+ Mid season5-end season 5 C+. The show needs to be put to rest after next year.

05-22-2004, 08:46 PM	#11
trekkie Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 22, 2003 Posts: 224	The writing isn't even clever anymore. It used to be witty, funny and unexpecting. Now ... it's like ... can't think of a clever joke, how many times do they expect us to suddenly laugh at Jack touching Karen or saying the word "p**is"? When the majority of the writing isn't funny to begin with, how can out-of-the-blue references to genetalia be funny?

05-24-2004, 05:01 AM	#12
spookystarbuck Kiss my Ass! Occasional Poster Join Date: Oct 21, 2003 Location: ENGLAND! Posts: 59	I still think that it is the best show on TV but I do agree that it is going a little downhill. I think that it was when more started happening with Grace - Leo etc. It got very monotonous and I don't think he was introduced properly as a character. The lines are getting more predictable and there doesn't seem to be as many witty jokes - non that you can't think up yourselves. I also agree with IheartMoonlighting that when the writers "bit off more than they could chew" by working on something else it went downhill. They should have stuck with the great show they had created first.
	__________________ "We have a very unorthodox flirtation on the show and we have it in real life too. I mean, if he walked in right now, he'd grab my boob and start dry-humping me. And it's mutual. We've confused many people on the set because there is not one part of my body that Sean has not touched, nor me his. And I can't explain it-it's just our way of relating. I mean, if we were presented to the queen of England, I'd probably be grabbing his package."

07-13-2004, 05:27 PM	#13
Rene #1 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Location: cali Posts: 1,849	the show went stale when grace married leo it just used to be soooooooo funny i miss it when it was clever and made you go- and
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