my opinions change the more i watch the show.

[Krista2882]

The more I see the series completely through, I noticed that my opinions of characters keep changing...
Like, the first time through, I remember that Joe was always my favorite character. Brian was in second place, but Joe was always my favorite.
Now, after the 4th time seeing the series all the way through, I kind of think that Joe was a jerk in the last 3 seasons or so. lol. I mean, he definately does have his good moments, but in the last few seasons of the show, Joe is starting to annoy me! I still love Joe in the first 3 seasons though. Like, back then, he was dorky in a really cute way... but in the last 3 seasons, he gets dorky in an annoying, jerky way. Like, his "wedding binder" for example. haha.
And there was something about the earlier Joe that seemed more "innocent" or something... i dunno..

and it's the opposite with Brian. I'm appreciating Brian more and more. I still think the season 1-3 Brian was the best because he was more silly and hyper back then, but the Brian in later seasons is really growing on me too.

Does the same kind of thing happen with you guys- your opinions about certain characters change as you've seen the whole series through more than once or twice?

[pilotguy]

Originally posted by Krista2882
The more I see the series completely through, I noticed that my opinions of characters keep changing...
Like, the first time through, I remember that Joe was always my favorite character. Brian was in second place, but Joe was always my favorite.
Now, after the 4th time seeing the series all the way through, I kind of think that Joe was a jerk in the last 3 seasons or so. lol. I mean, he definately does have his good moments, but in the last few seasons of the show, Joe is starting to annoy me! I still love Joe in the first 3 seasons though. Like, back then, he was dorky in a really cute way... but in the last 3 seasons, he gets dorky in an annoying, jerky way. Like, his "wedding binder" for example. haha.
And there was something about the earlier Joe that seemed more "innocent" or something... i dunno..

and it's the opposite with Brian. I'm appreciating Brian more and more. I still think the season 1-3 Brian was the best because he was more silly and hyper back then, but the Brian in later seasons is really growing on me too.

Does the same kind of thing happen with you guys- your opinions about certain characters change as you've seen the whole series through more than once or twice?

I agree with you, Krista....Joe REALLY changed over the course of the series!
The earlier seasons had him acting very preppy and business-like, with a FEW "neat and organized" hang-ups....but by the last couple of seasons, the show had him in full "Felix Unger" compulsively-neat-and-organized mode. It became an over-the-top (and sometimes annoying) caricature after a while.

I think that Brian's character change was a much more positive one over the course of the series. Although (as many people here know) I can't STAND the whiny, crybaby Brian of the "Post-breakup with Alex" episodes, he DID eventually snap out of it and mature into a more responsible person.
Sure, he was still "wild and crazy" by the series finale, but he didn't act so child-like and hyper as he did in the early episodes. I think that if Brian had kept up that early, silly "child-like and hyper" personality throughout the entire 8 seasons, it really would have gotten on viewers' nerves and become MOST annoying after a while!

[wingshock]

I didn't particularly like the change in Joe's character. Yes, he was always neat... but you're right he got so "Ungerish" in those last seasons. I chalked that up to him and Helen being together and so the writers were stretching to make Joe funny. I think that's one downside of resolving the sexual tension with Joe & Helen.

To me, Brian's changes made sense. Brian grew & matured. It seemed a natural progression for his character.

Love,

Wing<><

[Chocoholic]

Joe and Antonio both became so unlikable for me towards the end of the series.

[losthighway]

I thought Antonio got better towards the end of the series. I thought he was a crack up....one of my favorite "cuts in the entire series was the episode where Joe and Helen were on the Honeymoon in Jamaica and Helen says to Joe, "life is great" and then they cut to Antonio sitting at the lunch counter recovering from his depression about Casey and he says, "life sucks". But as the saying goes, to each their own.

I guess it is true that they turned Joe into a bit too much of a compulsive nut. But at least they stayed true to the character. He was always like that, even in the early season episodes, whether it was his obsession with his shoes touching, or his penny pinching when he didn't want to spend much money on Helen's b-day or he wanted to know how much the investment of the cello for Helen would cost, or his anal need of keeping everything clean and in order. I guess it didn't bother me that much because it was always a part of his character, and I thought it was another excellent true to life protrayal in a sit-com. I liked seeing Joe with all his flaws and Helen still loved him to death, because just like any real relationship you have to be able to take the good with the bad, and accept the bad because the good is what makes it special.

[Chocoholic]

Originally posted by losthighway
I thought Antonio got better towards the end of the series.

Wow, Losthighway, you're the first person I've known to say that! Actually, I've known a few Wings fans who couldn't stand Antonio at all To each his own, I guess.

I remember once time on an episode of Scrubs, Dr. Cox was laughing about something he was watching on TV and JD asked him what was so funny. Dr. Cox replied, "I'm watching Wings. That cab driver is just so funny!"

[pilotguy]

Originally posted by Snoopy
Wow, Losthighway, you're the first person I've known to say that! Actually, I've known a few Wings fans who couldn't stand Antonio at all To each his own, I guess.

I suppose that if you are a fan of nasty, sarcastic and bitter one-liners, than you WOULD find Antonio funnier in later seasons (and I'm NOT being sarcastic when I say that).

Even if Antonio wasn't as "nice and likeable" as he was in earlier seasons, his "hard luck" disasters of later episodes WERE quite funny....like his broken tooth, too-tight shoes, etc....plus he had Joe and Helen's "Storybook Marriage" to resent and sneer at!

[Chocoholic]

I like sweet and sensitive Antonio a lot better than nasty and whiny Antonio. I do like seeing him take shots at Roy and Carlton though

[pilotguy]

Originally posted by Snoopy
I like sweet and sensitive Antonio a lot better than nasty and whiny Antonio. I do like seeing him take shots at Roy and Carlton though

Antonio was taking good shots at Roy and Carlton even in his early "sweet and sensitive" days! It seems like Antonio could NEVER be nice to THOSE guys!

[Chocoholic]

I'm generally a nice person, but I don't think I could handle being nice to Roy and Carlton.

[losthighway]

I think Antonio just got better and better. I never saw him as whiney....but I'll try to explain. I'm just talking in general terms here, but I think what makes sit-com characters in TV work is when the audience can relate to them, and it helps if the audience can view them and in some level feel better about themselves or their life, etc.....what tends to work is the "loveable loser" characters, that you can relate to. Norm and Cliff and Frasier from Cheers are classic examples of that. And Wings pretty much used that same theme...Antonio, and Lowell and Roy, really all of them had a touch of that. You can come home from work after having a tough day, or after having a fight with a spouse or child or whatever, but then sit down and watch a character and laugh at them and say, "what am I complaining about my life isn't so bad afterall". It's a form of escapism, which to me is pretty much what TV is.

I remember reading an article with Crystal Bernard where she said she liked Helen because she was a loser. And she didn't mean that as a put-down, but she admired how things never qutie went her way or worked out, yet she kept plugging away and trying.

I think another thing that brings out humor, is pain. Remember the scene in the episode when Helen was trying to be a stand up comedian and her material stunk and then Brian was trying to explain how pain is funny, and Helen wasn't quite getting it, and then you heard a huge bang in the hanger and Lowell came out screaming "oh, oh, oh, oh" dancing around on one foot because he dropped something on his foot, and Brian turned to Helen and said, "now that's funny". It's kind of the three stooges thing as well. (Maybe that's a guy thing )

Antonio got much better in my opinion as the series moved on because he became that character that was always fighting an uphill battle. But admist his many down times, he still had moments where he won. And that can be funny. You don't want to see somebody having everything go their way and life is perfect.....you want to see them struggle and have hard times because you can relate to that in your own life.

I guess I've gone on a bit too much, but Antonio maintained alot of great qualities....I could point out several episodes such as "Eh Tu Antonio" where he was great or the many times he came to Casey's rescue, but he also had moments when life was beating him down and he reacted to it. And it was funny....like the episode when he told Helen he wasnt' going to pay for the meal, and got up to leave, and bites down on a cookie and breaks his tooth. Just like what Pilotguy pointed out.

It is a matter of taste I suppose, but those characteristics seem to work well in sit-coms.

[Krista2882]

Originally posted by losthighway


I think another thing that brings out humor, is pain. Remember the scene in the episode when Helen was trying to be a stand up comedian and her material stunk and then Brian was trying to explain how pain is funny, and Helen wasn't quite getting it, and then you heard a huge bang in the hanger and Lowell came out screaming "oh, oh, oh, oh" dancing around on one foot because he dropped something on his foot, and Brian turned to Helen and said, "now that's funny". It's kind of the three stooges thing as well. (Maybe that's a guy thing )

HAHAHA!! Yeah, that's one of the funniest Lowell moments ever!! it's just the way he comes hopping out on one foot going, "OOH OOH OOH OW OH!" and hops right back into the other room... it's so funny!

and yeah, I agree with you about Antonio. Yes, the first time seeing the series through, I thought Antonio got a little annoying and whiney... but now, my opinion has changed about him too... it's like, the 3rd or 4th time seeing the whole series through, and I don't find him as annoying in later seasons.