Lucie Hates Lucy

[JaneTVFan]

Originally posted by bweir
Firstly, she shouldn't have the need to come here and defend herself against people that have a different disadvantaged viewpoint from hers. Secondly, I would HOPE that she would never dignify this ridiculous speculative thread by coming on here.

Speculative? I have heard pretty much the same story from three people who have known her, but, to my knowledge, don't know one another (i.e, that she can be moody, cold, controlling, and a Jekyll and Hyde). When three people, who don't know one another, independently tell me the same thing, I tend to believe there must be some truth to it and goes beyond speculation. No, I have not observed this first-hand because the couple times I've been in her presence, it was around lots of other people, so she was "on" But even one of those on moments I was around her didn't quite sit well with me, when she was gleefully exclaiming "Lucy's dead! Get over it! Ha ha ha ha ha!"

[JaneTVFan]

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
Go to Luciearnaz.com. In the "Ask Lucie" section, she answers questions that are often about Lucy. There are several instances of Lucie saying positive things about her mother. If you are looking for a "My mother was the greatest mom a girl could ever ask for," you're not gonna find it. But to say that Lucie never has anything good to say about Lucy just isn't true.

I have not visited that site in awhile. But you're right, she does say some positive things about her mother there. But my recollection (though it could be wrong) was that those positive comments were more about Lucille Ball, the actress, not Lucille Ball, the mother.

[Mickey]

Hugely popular? Are they anyone we might have heard of? When you say they were stone cold, do your siblings feel the same way? The thing with Lucie is she's saying one thing and her brother is saying the opposite.

Hardly! No, I meant amongst their apparently massive circle of friends and all of their various neighbours. And as for how my siblings feel, most of them agree; at least one of them doesn't. Everybody's needs are different, see, and I'm not remotely surprised that Lucie feels one way and Desi Jr feels another. She might be less secure as a person than him, or just need more reassurance, or just need more physical contact.

[SPLAIN]

Wow, i've had a weekend to calm down, and you're right Mickey, i'm too much a Lucy fan to not be biased here. I love the fact that this discussion is bringing out the BIG guns to discuss things in a rational way, old foes coming back to discuss Lucy which is why we're all here, or in Mickey's case, Desi's. I don't have the verbal skills or debating skills to join in when OTHER people state everything so well, God, i hope to meet you one day Jane, you are so good at this, i read every word you say and am awed, same for Ricardosfan 4 ever. Brock seems to be defending Laura's interests here although he too was very fair, i still say the only thing that bothers me is hurting Lucie's biggest fan the way we here were all hurt by Lucie's comments. All right, i know, some of you will say you were'nt hurt, gimme a break, i'm not Jane! Finally like Brock told me privately, imagine if Lucie's kids are reading this, and he's right of course, that hurts me too, thinking we are voicing these opinions and Lucy's grandchildren could be reading them. Hopefully, they, like me, would WANT to know why their own mother acts this way and what actions of their grandmother or even their great grandmother prompted them. I know Lucie mentions her therapists a lot, but i really think they won't help her until she helps herself by LETTING GO of all these negative feelings. I would only add one other little thing, don't tell me she did not say these things while Lucy was alive because she did not want to hurt her, she's still hurting her reputation now and nothing mattered more than her rep. And doesn't all the publicity this generates help the sale of books and videos and memorabilia which generates a million dollars a year in revenue to her and her brother? And i agree with Jane, i too have heard the same stories from all these different insiders, friends and family who don't know each other and maybe when they hear her comments feel they should give Lucy's comments as she is no longer here to defend herself.

[bweir]

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Brock seems to be defending Laura's interests here although he too was very fair.

It is not that, really. I myself happen to respect Lucie and I believe that she is being treated and trashed VERY unfairly by people that don't know her, but are relying on the biased rattlings of others to fuel their hatred oh her. That is my opinion and it is likely not to change.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Finally like Brock told me privately, imagine if Lucie's kids are reading this, and he's right of course, that hurts me too, thinking we are voicing these opinions and Lucy's grandchildren could be reading them. Hopefully, they, like me, would WANT to know why their own mother acts this way and what actions of their grandmother or even their great grandmother prompted them.

That is not why I mentioned the kids, Claude. Re-read your posts on the first page and you will remember.

[SPLAIN]

Do you think maybe these PEOPLE are trashing HER the way she is trashing her mother's memory? And i reiterate, maybe it would be good for the kids to know what's going on so they won't bitch about HER twenty years from now, or AFTER she's gone!

[bweir]

I can tell by your post that you KNOW why I memtioned the kids to you...or you COMPLETELY missed the point.

[SPLAIN]

Sorry, i will reread the whole thing and get back to you.

[SPLAIN]

Ok, lemme have it because i dun't know what you're referring to, try a PM or e mail if you want to keep it private. AND nobody told me anything in confidence except for the ONE person, the others just didn't care at this point, it all started with the moving of the body and her wishes not being adhered to to get more money in the coffers of the museum. Let's discuss that too shall we?

[JaneTVFan]

Originally posted by SPLAIN
I don't have the verbal skills or debating skills to join in when OTHER people state everything so well, God, i hope to meet you one day Jane, you are so good at this, i read every word you say and am awed, same for Ricardosfan 4 ever.

Don't sell yourself so short, Claude! Your posts are one of the main reasons I come here at all!

i still say the only thing that bothers me is hurting Lucie's biggest fan the way we here were all hurt by Lucie's comments. All right, i know, some of you will say you were'nt hurt, gimme a break, i'm not Jane!

You're right, Lucie's comment did not HURT me, it just pissed me off. Much of what Lucie says about her mother is quite valid: she could be a tactless bitch at times. Where I have a problem with Lucie is her implication that her mother's love was not sincere, and when she dwells on the darker sides of her mother's personality, specifically the very characteristics that make me want to put a mirror in front of her. And also I get tired of hearing what sounds like whining: "Oh woe is me, my life was so tough growing up because my mother treated me like a normal kid instead of a celebrity kid." She doesn't seem to want to understand what her mother was doing as a parent. And she's trying to foist Y2K parenting standards on her mother. It's not fair. And what's really not fair IMO is raising all this negative stuff after her mother's gone.

Also, when I hear about an upbringing that reminds me so much of my own upbringing with my father (except for the celebrity aspect), and there's all this pity stuff attached to it, it's more than I can take. I've come to terms with my father's parenting -- not that I agree with it, I just try to understand where he's coming from and what his intentions are -- and I'm a lot younger than Lucie, so I have no patience.

And i agree with Jane, i too have heard the same stories from all these different insiders, friends and family who don't know each other and maybe when they hear her comments feel they should give Lucy's comments as she is no longer here to defend herself.

Exactly. It takes two to tango and there are two sides to every story. We don't know everything that went on inside that house. And unfortunately we're now only getting a one-sided picture without the other side there to give us a balanced perspective. Who knows, if Lucy was the mother from hell, perhaps it was because she had to deal with the daughter from hell. Without Lucy around to explain where she was coming from, how can we know for sure?

[JaneTVFan]

Originally posted by SPLAIN
it all started with the moving of the body and her wishes not being adhered to to get more money in the coffers of the museum. Let's discuss that too shall we?

Excellent topic! And it pretty much illustrates what we've already been talking about. I remain VERY troubled by this. Jamestown creeped Lucille Ball out in life. She only went back there a couple times after she moved away, and that wasn't exactly because she wanted to. And obviously, because of the fact that she never bought a burial plot there, but instead got a place for both herself and her mother in Los Angeles, she certainly had no intention or desire to have her ashes taken there. It seems awfully disrespectful and CRUEL to me. What I don't understand is why Desi Jr. went along on the ride and allowed this to happen.

[JaneTVFan]

Originally posted by bweir
It is not that, really. I myself happen to respect Lucie

Or perhaps you're just kissing up to her in hopes that word will get back to her that you're defending her so you can meet her or who knows what? As Claude can tell you, I don't kiss up to anyone. I'm not the least bit star struck. For the most part (and I'm not necessarily directing this at Lucie), Hollywood celebrities don't impress me at all. Most of them aren't terribly bright and are only where they are because of sheer luck and a little bit of talent. The people who truly awe me are people like Jimmy Carter and Eleanor Roosevelt who have used their lives and skills to change the world and society and aren't motivated by fame or attention or glamour.

and I believe that she is being treated and trashed VERY unfairly by people that don't know her, but are relying on the biased rattlings of others to fuel their hatred oh her. That is my opinion and it is likely not to change.

And, likewise, my opinion is not likely to change, either. I've heard enough already from people I believe are in a position to know what they're talking about. Beside, I call things as I see 'em. Lucie is not being "trashed" any more than she's trashing her mother's memory. If Lucy were alive when she said these things, you wouldn't be hearing from me here because Lucy would have the opportunity to speak for herself. But since we're being put in a position to view a situation in a one-sided context, I'm only trying to be fair and look at things from another angle.

[That Other Fan]

This is totally disheartening people...How can my prophecy that this thread would reach 100 posts come true with this minimal amount of posting.


Post...people....POST!

[bweir]

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Or perhaps you're just kissing up to her in hopes that word will get back to her that you're defending her so you can meet her or who knows what?

Certainly not. I do not kiss up to anyone. I merely state, as you do, what I feel.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I'm not the least bit star struck. For the most part (and I'm not necessarily directing this at Lucie), Hollywood celebrities don't impress me at all. Most of them aren't terribly bright and are only where they are because of sheer luck and a little bit of talent.

What does being star-struck have to do with anything? Nothing. Having respect for someone is not indicative of being in awe of the person. It is common courtesy

[SPLAIN]

Well, i'm glad you're enjoying it all, i'm rather uncomfortable about the whole thing. All i want is the truth and answers on certain subjects. Look at pictures and films of little Lucie, or little miss cranky pants, sure did not LOOK like a happy camper, and nothings's changed lately. Now, the burial thing, i was the biggest defender of the move thinking this is what Lucy wanted, all i heard in interviews for decades was how beautiful Jamestown was with the changing of the seasons and i could just see her there buried next to grandpa who was like a father to her and the rest of her family, maybe her beloved violets circling the grave. Then i found out how those people treated Lucy, not just back then, which i knew about, but even to this day with those S T O R I E S that we won't go into here. Then, when i had already made a fool of myself, i finally got the truth. Lucie had to convince Fred and her bro, there's more there too that we can't go into here, and because she wanted to help the Museum by getting more tourists to the town that treated her mom like ****, and of course further her own cause of monitary returns, nothing is more important to her, everybody around her says so. So, she ignored her mom's wishes, took her out of the plot she had bought for herself. Don't get me wrong, in a way, i STILL side with the decision to move her as that plot was ridiculous, a small plaque when Bette Davis and Liberace had these huge monuments there. I know Lucy never wanted a HUGE monument, she was plain and simple with frugal tastes, but Davis comes from the same stock and you should see HERS by comparison.