The Death of Norman Ladner?

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by DarkDante

For what it's worth from the first time I saw the Ladner case (years after I saw the Ives & Henry case) I always thought the two were somehow related although not necessarily part of the same drug drop/operation deal. I think all three boys wandered upon something that they weren't supposed to see and were murdered as a result.

The suicide theory with Norman Ladner never resonated in any way with me. If anything it was an accident which obviously remains a possibility given Norman's relative young age, although as it has been pointed out, youths in Norman's area of the United States are far more experienced handling guns than perhaps we would believe at first blush.

Heck I remember it being reported that the deaths of Ives/Henry were first going to be reported as suicides but it was decided to list their death as accidental due to intoxication because it was felt that the local public would not accept a ruling of suicide in the case of those two boys.

Needless to say I don't see suicide as being much of a possibility in either of these cases.

I currently lean toward your theory--the boys were all murdered for the same reason, but the operations were different. While the activity in the Ives/Henry case was known and protected by LE, I'm not sure this was necessarily the case with Norman Ladner. I think the protection and coverup in the latter came AFTER the fact, as opposed to LE having an eye on it from the very beginning. Every single thing I have read on the case in discussions and theories between Pearl River Co locals points directly to Sheriff Lumpkin perpetrating a coverup, allegedly to protect either himself (apparently he was involved in illegal activities himself, having participated in a ****-fighting ring. It appears he also impeded a murder investigation just over the river in Slidell, LA for unknown reasons) or someone he knew. Lumpkin died in 2007.

There is also frequent mention of the so-called Dixie Mafia being involved. Both Mississippi and Louisiana are traditional DM hotbeds, so I suppose it's a viable possibility.

ETA, OT: This is the second time on the board I have attempted to use the word c*ck in a non-vulgar sense and it hasn't made the censorship cut.

[wiseguy182]

I just watched this case yet again and I've finally made up my mind. He was murdered. I had thought accident was a possibility (I never believed suicide), but there are just too many things to point to murder:

-the wallet with $140 missing.
-the gun was broken
-the mysterious man who approached Charlette and told her not to investigate.
-the location of the bullet
-the radio device
-the sloppy investigation (bullet returned to Charles and Charlette wasn't the right one, corrupt sheriff)

Points 2 and 4 could also point to accident, but taking everything into account I think this was murder.

The segment offered up a viable solution to the laceration on Norman's head: there was a root sticking out of the ground with blood on it. Have to wonder if Norman's killer slammed his head on it.

I don't believe the killing went down the way it was depicted in the segment though, with someone coming up secretly from behind on Norman. Those woods must have been covered with branches and leaves and it would be nigh impossible to not make any sound walking.

This may be a bit of a wild theory, but do you think it's possible Norman was killed solely for his money and drugs weren't a factor at all? $140 seems like a lot of money for a kid to be carrying around. There are always high school kids that have jobs, but they're mostly minimum wage ones and the minimum wage back then was a paltry $3.35 an hour. And of course, there are always kids with rich parents, but I didn't really get that vibe here. I wonder if it was common for Norman to carry that much cash with him and if it was a known fact around school/town. Maybe a strange theory, but people have been killed for less.

[DarkDante]

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

This may be a bit of a wild theory, but do you think it's possible Norman was killed solely for his money and drugs weren't a factor at all? $140 seems like a lot of money for a kid to be carrying around. There are always high school kids that have jobs, but they're mostly minimum wage ones and the minimum wage back then was a paltry $3.35 an hour. And of course, there are always kids with rich parents, but I didn't really get that vibe here. I wonder if it was common for Norman to carry that much cash with him and if it was a known fact around school/town. Maybe a strange theory, but people have been killed for less.

For what it's worth, from my perspective Norman Ladner didn't seem to be particularly well off. Therefore he wouldn't necessarily be a prime target for someone looking to make a quick score on in terms of robbery. As you mentioned they would've had to have known that Ladner had a habit of carrying likely all of his money in his wallet with him at all times. At the very least they would've had to have known that Ladner had x amount of dollars in the wallet at the time they encountered him in the woods and murdered him for robbery to be a potential motive in my mind.

I still find it strange that his drivers license turned up in New York. That sort of creeps me out that missing property of Norman's traveled so far north after his death.

[wiseguy182]

Fair enough. Just seems weird though for someone to take that much money into the woods. There's nothing to buy there. I suppose he needed his wallet as his hunting license was in there, but he could have just slipped that out.

But anyways. The wallet being found in New York indicates to me the drug supplier was from there, or at least had connections there. I'm guessing it was probably a pretty big shipment. I wonder how much they investigated the drug scene in Picayune and surrounding areas.

[MegtheEgg86]

Coincidentally, I happened to catch the tail end of a documentary on the Dixie Mafia on TV yesterday afternoon. It described a huge takedown in Mississippi sometime during the '80s (as part of a description on how the DM was eventually "brought down" in that decade) which involved FBI agents converging upon a plane drop site in the middle of the woods. Thought that was kind of interesting.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by DarkDante

For what it's worth from the first time I saw the Ladner case (years after I saw the Ives & Henry case) I always thought the two were somehow related although not necessarily part of the same drug drop/operation deal. I think all three boys wandered upon something that they weren't supposed to see and were murdered as a result.

The suicide theory with Norman Ladner never resonated in any way with me. If anything it was an accident which obviously remains a possibility given Norman's relative young age, although as it has been pointed out, youths in Norman's area of the United States are far more experienced handling guns than perhaps we would believe at first blush.

Heck I remember it being reported that the deaths of Ives/Henry were first going to be reported as suicides but it was decided to list their death as accidental due to intoxication because it was felt that the local public would not accept a ruling of suicide in the case of those two boys.

Needless to say I don't see suicide as being much of a possibility in either of these cases.

I agree. Also, the sheriff or lead investigator (whoever he was) that was interviewed, ranks up there as one of the more smug people from law enforcement to be interviewed on Unsolved Mysteries.

[yourhomiebrian]

100% murder. The only question is was there a police cover up.

[JannTosh]

the wallet being found in New York is not mentioned in the segment on Amazon. Is the segment edited?

[LakeForestPI]

This case was without a shadow of a doubt a murder and coverup. Its not even up for discussion when looking at the evidence. Poor Norman and his poor parents. Makes me incredibly angry how segments of society can get away with this behavior. Backwater redneck cops in Mississippi litterally getting away with drug dealing and murder

[mtaylor72]

Originally Posted by JannTosh

the wallet being found in New York is not mentioned in the segment on Amazon. Is the segment edited?

As far as I know, there never was an update. Even the Farina version never mentioned the found wallet/license.

[MegtheEgg86]

I've never been able to confirm the source of the information about Norman's driver's license being found in New York. I've seen a blog here or there mention it, but I've never known where that information actually came from. I'm not saying it's necessarily erroneous, but it seems to be another one of those board curiosities with unclear origins.

[justins5256]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

I've never been able to confirm the source of the information about Norman's driver's license being found in New York. I've seen a blog here or there mention it, but I've never known where that information actually came from. I'm not saying it's necessarily erroneous, but it seems to be another one of those board curiosities with unclear origins.

I believe it came from a one post wonder type named rovinggambler who claimed to have been a friend of Norman.

[mikewho]

This one definitely appears to be foul play to me. Possibly an accident but suicide I don't think was an option. Anythings possible but nothing gave indication suicide was a factor

[yourhomiebrian]

I have a new theory. I do not know if anyone else has suggested this but maybe Norman Ladner was going to buy drugs. Why else would he have that much money with him? I think that is most likely what happened. Norman went to buy drugs for himself and the seller double crossed him robbed and killed him. That is the most likely explanation in my opinion.

[peachysquirt21]

Originally Posted by yourhomiebrian

I have a new theory. I do not know if anyone else has suggested this but maybe Norman Ladner was going to buy drugs. Why else would he have that much money with him? I think that is most likely what happened. Norman went to buy drugs for himself and the seller double crossed him robbed and killed him. That is the most likely explanation in my opinion.

There has been no evidence to suggest Norman was into drugs. Did you ever stop & think that just maybe Norman was the type of person who saved his money??? Not every teenager squanders there money. The way you make it sound is because he was carrying that much cash, oh he had to be going to buy drugs. Norman could of been the type that wherever he went he always carried his wallet & always kept his money in his wallet.

I think some are making way too much out of Norman having that much cash on him.

Unless other evidence comes forth, I still believe Norman stumbled upon something he should not have, (more then likely involving drugs) & was murdered to shut him up.