Lilih is coming BACK - Page 2 - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Valma · 10-21-2003, 06:02 PM

Well, I too will enjoy seeing Lilith again (and BTW David Lee reports that it is for the final time), but it doesn't mean I want to see *everyone* from Cheers again on Frasier because Lilith is about to reappear (the character of Lilith is not the typical guest appearance from the Cheers cast, as I explained she is the mother of Frasier's son and has appeared more often as a result). In fact I don't even think of Cheers when I see Lilith on Frasier now (any more than I think of Cheers when I see Frasier himself - he seems to have broken away from that show quite successfully early on IMO).

I don't think we should ever lose sight of the fact that Frasier is *not* Cheers and the shows have two *very* different approaches to comedy (and don't mix well IMO). That is one of the reasons that Frasier (the character) had to change when he became a central character on a very different type of show.

DianeChambers87 · 10-21-2003, 09:25 PM

You're right he did change, and Frasier is a different type of comedy. A very good one. I really like the cast and enjoy the different characters and scripts. Frasier isn't my favorite character in Cheers, even though I like all of them, and surprisingly in the sitcom "Frasier" my two favorite characters are Niles, and Roz. However, whenever Frasier is around a Cheers cast member he goes back to being the "Cheers Frasier" who I enjoy more than the actual Frasier. Also, you cannot completely deny Cheers' influence on Frasier, which are visible through certain scripts and spoofs. Like for example that scene last year when Frasier and Julia have their first "encounter" and he ends up by saying "Are you as turned on as I am?!" that was taken from the famous Sam and Diane scene in Cheers (she then also adds that the term "turned on" hasn't been used in 20 years ..hence 1982/1983 when it actually was used).When I do see lilith on Frasier I DO think Cheers, because the way she is on Frasier is exactly the way she was on Cheers.

Brian Damage · 10-22-2003, 02:50 PM

good points Maria.

barwars · 10-22-2003, 07:29 PM

I dont think they are the same type of show.
But I think they work well together.

2 of my faves.

Valma · 10-22-2003, 09:28 PM

I'm not denying that the character of Frasier had his roots in Cheers or that there are some references (*occasionally*) that hearken back to Cheers (as your example shows), but there are plenty* more references to other movies, plays and television programmes too and they are just as big of influence on the kind of humour that is presented on Frasier (maybe more). Frasier often references itself to others things (remember the entire show that was based on Tennessee Williams' plays? or the one that was based on the "Sliding Doors" plot? or the episode that was structured the same as "My Dinner with Andre"? or the one that was reminicent of Mr. Bean? or the multious number of episodes that show the influences of Georges Feydeau (who is probably the biggest influence on the comedy of Frasier IMO).

When I say that I don't think of Cheers when I see Lilith now, it hasn't got anything to do with her personality traits. I mean that I have seen her interact with Frasier (the "Frasier" Frasier) to the degree that she seems to fit naturally with his "new" more in-depth character (and she has grown too as a result). Lilith on Frasier has taken on a life of ther own (just like Frasier has). She has enough personal reference points on Frasier (enough history) to allow me to see her as a creation of Frasier and not just a character from Cheers coming back for a guest shot.

BTW, I don't think it is surprising at all that your favourite character on the show isn't Frasier. :-)) No slight to Kelsey Grammer at all (who is excellent on the show) but my favourite character is Niles (and actor - DHP). All the cast is superb but DHP stands out above the rest for me (and he seems such a versitile actor who can do almost anything - having seen him in some very serious roles in film and on stage). :-)

DianeChambers87 · 10-22-2003, 10:11 PM

Yea, there's just something about Niles, and his reactions that's great. It makes him stand out among the rest of the cast.

barwars · 10-23-2003, 03:14 PM

Niles is cool (better than Frasier)

but Martin is best.

Brian Damage · 10-24-2003, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by barwars88
Niles is cool (better than Frasier)

but Martin is best.

Agreed

smokeypeach · 10-26-2003, 11:22 PM

martin is my fav then niles but wat did the thing about lilith coming but say

smokeypeach · 10-27-2003, 08:22 PM

k just found out wat the lilith ep is its november 18 Lilith's (guest star Bebe Neuwirth) friend unknowingly sets her up on a blind date with Frasier; Niles and Daphne urge Martin to get rid of his gun. it sound sooooo cool

barwars · 10-27-2003, 08:44 PM

Hopefully she stays for long.

The 18th.... its so far away!!

A blind date from across the country?!
How weird.

smokeypeach · 10-27-2003, 10:00 PM

i know im ganna go crazy waiting but if she is ganna go on a blind that then that can only mean on thing NO ALBERT yea lol

DianeChambers87 · 10-27-2003, 10:20 PM

Lilith and Frasier back together...sounds good.

Lol i wonder what Julia will say?

barwars · 10-28-2003, 05:16 PM

Julia's long gone.
Thank God.

DianeChambers87 · 10-28-2003, 05:38 PM

lol shows that I don't watch frasier that often...the thing is that I would I just never know when it's on. I periodically watch a rerun whenever it's on tv.

10-21-2003, 09:25 PM	#17
DianeChambers87 Elizabeth B. Malone Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 16, 2003 Location: Swampland USA Posts: 5,178	You're right he did change, and Frasier is a different type of comedy. A very good one. I really like the cast and enjoy the different characters and scripts. Frasier isn't my favorite character in Cheers, even though I like all of them, and surprisingly in the sitcom "Frasier" my two favorite characters are Niles, and Roz. However, whenever Frasier is around a Cheers cast member he goes back to being the "Cheers Frasier" who I enjoy more than the actual Frasier. Also, you cannot completely deny Cheers' influence on Frasier, which are visible through certain scripts and spoofs. Like for example that scene last year when Frasier and Julia have their first "encounter" and he ends up by saying "Are you as turned on as I am?!" that was taken from the famous Sam and Diane scene in Cheers (she then also adds that the term "turned on" hasn't been used in 20 years ..hence 1982/1983 when it actually was used).When I do see lilith on Frasier I DO think Cheers, because the way she is on Frasier is exactly the way she was on Cheers.
	__________________ Strange Fascinations, Fascinating me

10-26-2003, 11:22 PM	#24
smokeypeach Miss Britt Frequent Poster Join Date: Sep 20, 2003 Location: on my computer Posts: 191	martin is my fav then niles but wat did the thing about lilith coming but say
	__________________ ER Kerry Weaver rocks- Romano:You are one grade A bitch!...do you know that kerry Kerry:No Robert im your boss and as long as i am you are my bitch now get your ass back to work Kerry: Alright wich one of you smartasses stole my crutch! The Divison Kate rocks So I'm still not sure why your talking to me" - Captain McCafferty Lilith sternin rocks

10-21-2003, 06:02 PM	#16
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	Well, I too will enjoy seeing Lilith again (and BTW David Lee reports that it is for the final time), but it doesn't mean I want to see everyone from Cheers again on Frasier because Lilith is about to reappear (the character of Lilith is not the typical guest appearance from the Cheers cast, as I explained she is the mother of Frasier's son and has appeared more often as a result). In fact I don't even think of Cheers when I see Lilith on Frasier now (any more than I think of Cheers when I see Frasier himself - he seems to have broken away from that show quite successfully early on IMO). I don't think we should ever lose sight of the fact that Frasier is not Cheers and the shows have two very different approaches to comedy (and don't mix well IMO). That is one of the reasons that Frasier (the character) had to change when he became a central character on a very different type of show.

10-22-2003, 02:50 PM	#18
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	good points Maria.

10-22-2003, 07:29 PM	#19
barwars .. Forum Star Join Date: May 04, 2002 Posts: 13,273	I dont think they are the same type of show. But I think they work well together. 2 of my faves.

10-22-2003, 09:28 PM	#20
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	I'm not denying that the character of Frasier had his roots in Cheers or that there are some references (occasionally) that hearken back to Cheers (as your example shows), but there are plenty* more references to other movies, plays and television programmes too and they are just as big of influence on the kind of humour that is presented on Frasier (maybe more). Frasier often references itself to others things (remember the entire show that was based on Tennessee Williams' plays? or the one that was based on the "Sliding Doors" plot? or the episode that was structured the same as "My Dinner with Andre"? or the one that was reminicent of Mr. Bean? or the multious number of episodes that show the influences of Georges Feydeau (who is probably the biggest influence on the comedy of Frasier IMO). When I say that I don't think of Cheers when I see Lilith now, it hasn't got anything to do with her personality traits. I mean that I have seen her interact with Frasier (the "Frasier" Frasier) to the degree that she seems to fit naturally with his "new" more in-depth character (and she has grown too as a result). Lilith on Frasier has taken on a life of ther own (just like Frasier has). She has enough personal reference points on Frasier (enough history) to allow me to see her as a creation of Frasier and not just a character from Cheers coming back for a guest shot. BTW, I don't think it is surprising at all that your favourite character on the show isn't Frasier. :-)) No slight to Kelsey Grammer at all (who is excellent on the show) but my favourite character is Niles (and actor - DHP). All the cast is superb but DHP stands out above the rest for me (and he seems such a versitile actor who can do almost anything - having seen him in some very serious roles in film and on stage). :-)

10-22-2003, 10:11 PM	#21
DianeChambers87 Elizabeth B. Malone Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 16, 2003 Location: Swampland USA Posts: 5,178	Yea, there's just something about Niles, and his reactions that's great. It makes him stand out among the rest of the cast.

10-23-2003, 03:14 PM	#22
barwars .. Forum Star Join Date: May 04, 2002 Posts: 13,273	Niles is cool (better than Frasier) but Martin is best.

10-27-2003, 08:22 PM	#25
smokeypeach Miss Britt Frequent Poster Join Date: Sep 20, 2003 Location: on my computer Posts: 191	k just found out wat the lilith ep is its november 18 Lilith's (guest star Bebe Neuwirth) friend unknowingly sets her up on a blind date with Frasier; Niles and Daphne urge Martin to get rid of his gun. it sound sooooo cool

10-27-2003, 08:44 PM	#26
barwars .. Forum Star Join Date: May 04, 2002 Posts: 13,273	Hopefully she stays for long. The 18th.... its so far away!! A blind date from across the country?! How weird.

10-27-2003, 10:00 PM	#27
smokeypeach Miss Britt Frequent Poster Join Date: Sep 20, 2003 Location: on my computer Posts: 191	i know im ganna go crazy waiting but if she is ganna go on a blind that then that can only mean on thing NO ALBERT yea lol

10-27-2003, 10:20 PM	#28
DianeChambers87 Elizabeth B. Malone Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 16, 2003 Location: Swampland USA Posts: 5,178	Lilith and Frasier back together...sounds good. Lol i wonder what Julia will say?

10-28-2003, 05:16 PM	#29
barwars .. Forum Star Join Date: May 04, 2002 Posts: 13,273	Julia's long gone. Thank God.

10-28-2003, 05:38 PM	#30
DianeChambers87 Elizabeth B. Malone Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 16, 2003 Location: Swampland USA Posts: 5,178	lol shows that I don't watch frasier that often...the thing is that I would I just never know when it's on. I periodically watch a rerun whenever it's on tv.