NBC to LeBlanc: Lose Weight

[Dennis]

The reason Frasier worked and Joey won't is because the writing will probably suck. Joey hasn't been funny on Friends in a long time. Nothing good has actually happened with his character. He just does something dumb and Chandler makes an annoying, cynical comment. Joey is my least favorite character and I prey to god the show fails. BTW, Friends should have ended after the 7th season.

[Mr. Television]

Remember Frasier had Seinfeld as a lead in during its 1st season. Joey will probably be asked to lead off the night.

[LILFACE23]

I love Friends, but I really can't see Joey being all that great in his new show. I mean what would it be about, having a bunch of different girls in his apt. and getting a job then losing the job. His life on the show hasn't been that great to follow compared to Rachel and Ross and Monica and Chandler. Oh well, that's just my opinion. I wish him the best in it, I just don't see it making it. Where's the story line in it?

[Superbatboy]

Frasier was a success because they had awesome writers, good directors, and good producers. The show hardly ever relied on past Cheers humor for laughs. If the cast and crew for Joey can do the same, then the show will be a hit. Because people will watch the show in the beginning to see what it's all about no doubt. So they really need to concentrate on making the show good, and not concentrate on someone's weight...i think that is so silly.

[Mcfly]

Plus Frasier and Joey are two completely different kinds of characters. Frasier's a brainy intellectual. Joey is....a lunkhead. Trying to develop a serious storyline or life around a character who's so slow will not work, IMHO. They put a crotchety father, a silly dog, a neurotic "psychic", a slutty producer, and a Frasier-clone around Frasier, and he basically became a reactive character to all of this. Since Joey is already a goof, it'll be harder structuring other goofs around him.

I enjoy when Joey gets serious (like the scene on the plane in this years first ep), but they do it so rarely. Unless they drastically wisen up his character, I don't think it'll go anywhere. And my guess for plot: Joey gets his big break in LA and spends time with his new Friends, the cast from his show, who also intra-date, love sandwiches, have goofy in-laws, long lost weirdo half-brother's, etc. LeBlanc is such a good comic actor that, with the right script, maaaaaybe could pull it off.

[Edster2973]

Let's give the show "Joey" a chance, shall we? It hasn't even aired yet and yet some of you are wishing it was already cancelled.

Firstly, until "Frasier" was aired, people expected the show to flop (including myself) because no one saw beyond what was shown on "Cheers". But a new supporting cast and relatives were added to the character's back story and voila! we have a hit show.

Joey is a LOT like Frasier when you think about it. They are both almost under-utilized in their respective shows (Frasier being under-utilized in "Cheers") and they both don't have a lot of back story to keep track of. They're more or less a clean slate. That's why Frasier was able to be put into a new scenario, without Lilith no less, and while fans cringed when first hearing of this, it still clicked with the audience, because the writing was solid and the new cast was given a strong foundation.

The same will happen with Joey's new show (or it had better, if the creative people are smart). He's the one that, for storyline purposes, can be plucked out of the "Friends" show and be put somewhere totally new and still have it work. If it were Monica, you'd have to have some involvement with Chandler (even if they divorced) or it just won't work. The same with Rachel and Ross, although I think a spin off with Rachel would work better than one with Ross IMHO. Phoebe could also work but maybe Lisa Kudrow didn't want to do it, seeing as she's played the same character on two shows (as Ursala on "Mad About You"). Plus, her backstory is a little complicated and it's been played out in "Friends" already.

It all stems from a creative point of view and not on who's funniest or most popular. Joey will have his conflicts. He'll have a sexy person to work with, he'll have someone he's trying to win over, and then other people who we've yet to meet on the show will also have their conflicts, people who we'll grow to care about, much like Niles & Daphne et al. In fact, there will be times when Joey won't be center stage in his own show, which sometimes has happened with Frasier, because they're both ensemble shows. We just haven't met Joey's new ensemble yet, that's all.

Right now, out of sheer loyalty to "Friends" and its cast, this prospect isn't sounding great to many of us, but we got to give the show a chance. Don't make up your minds until we've seen it aired, ok?


Ed

[Springcreek]

Ed, this is THE BEST post supporting Matt's new show that I've read on any message forum or newsgroup!!!

I feel the exact same way you do and I really, really hope the many fans of "Friends" will follow suit and give Matt's show a chance!!!

~~~

Kathy

[Edster2973]

Thanks Kathy. I was afraid my post was too long and would bore a few of you, but I'm glad someone read it and got the points I was trying to make.

Thanks so much!


Ed

[Joeylova87]

Matt dosent need to loose weight, he looks great, they shouldnt make him, loose weight, thats not nice

[seven_to_shea]

I actually think Joey is over-exposed enough already; the writers have done nothing more with him since the Rachel arc (his acting is so overrated there it's not even funny). This is a guy who in one recent episode wore two belts and couldn't tell the difference between left and right.

Saying well Joey should work because Frasier did....that's an invalid argument. Joey and Frasier are POLAR opposites in terms of characters; Frasier had a different feel and sense of humor than Cheers, was intelligently written for the first few seasons and had a good supporting cast. As has already been pointed out, Frasier also had the perfect lead-in from Seinfeld, I assume Joey will get Friends' old slot, it'd be a brave move to take it to any other time.

And, in reference to the actual thread topic...I just find it funny that they're still trying to push pudgy LeBlanc with the dark eyes of a 60 year old as a sex symbol. He's going to have to find some new tricks because that's going to get old very quickly and he won't be lucky enough next time to have a serious storyline with the likes of Jennifer Aniston.

[Edster2973]

Originally posted by seven_to_shea
I actually think Joey is over-exposed enough already; the writers have done nothing more with him since the Rachel arc (his acting is so overrated there it's not even funny). This is a guy who in one recent episode wore two belts and couldn't tell the difference between left and right.

Saying well Joey should work because Frasier did....that's an invalid argument.

That is not what I said. The show could still fail if it is not written well. What I did say is that fans of FRIENDS should give the show JOEY a chance instead of condemning the show before it even airs.

Originally posted by seven_to_shea
Joey and Frasier are POLAR opposites in terms of characters; Frasier had a different feel and sense of humor than Cheers, was intelligently written for the first few seasons and had a good supporting cast. As has already been pointed out, Frasier also had the perfect lead-in from Seinfeld, I assume Joey will get Friends' old slot, it'd be a brave move to take it to any other time.

Valid points, but comparisons can be made now between CHEERS and FRASIER since both have had full-fledged runs. Again, JOEY hasn't even seen airtime yet. There are characters that (hopefully) will help carry the show that we haven't even been introduced to yet.

And compare Frasier to when he was on CHEERS to when he was on FRASIER. Yes, basically he was the same character, but there was a hell of a lot more depth and substance added to the character that just wasn't there while he was on CHEERS. On CHEERS, Frasier couldn't even be utilized as a full character without the involvement of Lilith, whether he was trying to live up to her expectations or trying to cope with life without her after she left him. He was that thin of a character. His function on CHEERS was to be the almost arrogant know-it-all psychologist whose own life was such a mess; and truthfully when I found out about FRASIER debuting and that it wouldn't feature Lilith as a regular, I was like 'how the hell can they make a show about a character who was basically a one-trick (or one-joke) pony?' But it worked, didn't it, basically because he was still a clean slate and had a lot more room to add to his character's canvas which wouldn't conflict with what went on before on CHEERS. Joey Tribianni fits this description. We just haven't seen the new canvas yet.

But make no mistake about it. I'm not saying the show is guaranteed NOT to fail. Far from it. The show actually has a lot riding against it, especially with the (I hope) well-meaning nay sayers who are condemning the show without actually having seen one episode.

Originally posted by seven_to_shea
And, in reference to the actual thread topic...I just find it funny that they're still trying to push pudgy LeBlanc with the dark eyes of a 60 year old as a sex symbol. He's going to have to find some new tricks because that's going to get old very quickly and he won't be lucky enough next time to have a serious storyline with the likes of Jennifer Aniston.

No, but he will have the likes of other beautiful leading ladies & men who will help him carry the show. Frasier alone isn't responsible for the success of FRASIER. In fact, when I think of FRASIER, the first I think about it is not the title character but the other characters who make up the ensemble, especially Niles and Daphne. There were several main storylines where THEY were the focus and Frasier wasn't, but I don't see anyone anywhere using that as an arguement to suggest that Frasier is a weak character. I think poor Joey Tribianni (and Matt Leblanc)merits the same amount of loyalty and support, don't you?

Ed (who thinks Matt Leblanc is still sexy inspite being pudgy with dark eyes)

[seven_to_shea]

I appreciate your points, although my comments weren't specifically in reference to yours.

Regarding Frasier and Lilith, Frasier was around independently at first, and was involved with Diane way before Lilith hit the scene and Frasier and Lilith to a lot of Cheers viewers were not mutually exclusive, especially as they had divorced before Cheers had even finished.

My comment about Jennifer had nothing to do with her looks, she's a hugely talented television performer right now and brought out a lot in LeBlanc.

Maybe I'm wrong...and Matt LeBlanc will just amaze us all, and Joey will turn out to be a deep character who in fact does know the difference between left and right and does know that people eat birds. Maybe LeBlanc will stop yelling every line. I like Joey fine, I really do, it may not seem it, I just think he's a limited character who has already been exposed in terms of what can be revealed. I fully expect this to be a show of sandwich and sex jokes. Hopefully I'm wrong, if it turns out to be a great show then I'll be glad to admit that. And of course we need to actually see it before we can comment. I'm just sceptical...I would have respected him more if he'd allowed his character to die gracefully rather than going for another buck with something that most likely will not enhance Friends' reputation.

[Edster2973]

I understand what you're saying, and I must admit that I myself am a bit apprehensive about the series, but I remember feeling the same way towards FRASIER and it turned out I was wrong. In fact I prefer FRASIER to CHEERS in all honesty. I'm not expecting to prefer JOEY to FRIENDS but hopefully it'll be a decent show in its own right.

We'll have to wait and see I suppose...


Ed

[seven_to_shea]

Yeah, we just have to wait and see although it's good to speculate too I admit that Joey is probably on the bottom of my list of the 6 in terms of preference at the moment...so I would probably be a LOT more defensive if it was say a Chandler/Monica spin-off that we were having. And it'd be great if it turns out to be a good show. I grew up watching Friends and knowing that in some way the characters will continue with Joey makes it's goodbye a LITTLE bit easier to take

[Edster2973]

I agree with you as far as preference goes, but I think that the other characters have way too much backstory to keep track of with a new show. Joey has the least backstory so the fact that it's a new crew writing for the show, it hopefully won't conflict with it. I think that's the key reason why Joey was selected as opposed to any of the other 5...

Just my opinion anyway...


Ed