Cases after all these years they still keep you up thinking all night?

[nikkispence1989]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

-

- Kevin Ives and Don Henry. Tangled, tangled web.

Top case!! .. did I hear some where that theres a book on this case? Any one know the name and if its a good read?

[TracyLynnS]

Originally Posted by nikkispence1989

Top case!! .. did I hear some where that theres a book on this case? Any one know the name and if its a good read?

Yep, I have the kindle edition of the book, which was $10. It has some editing mistakes but still worth buying, IMO. There is sooooo much info in the book that they couldn't fit into the UM segment.

It's called The Boys on the Tracks: Death, denial, and a mother's crusade to bring her son's killers to justice

http://www.amazon.com/Boys-Tracks-mo...+on+the+tracks

[TracyLynnS]

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...ht=boys+tracks

Here's some stuff I said in the linked thread after I read the book a year ago:

On to my opinion of Fahmy Malak. [the medical examiner] Is he still alive? I actually HATE this guy. He's not only corrupt and incompetent but unbelievably cruel. Whenever he met with the boys' parents he was offensive, defensive, arrogant, condescending, and dismissive. He made the parents and everyone else who visited his office pose for polaroids to keep a photographic record of their visit. He also continually threatened to show the the parents autopsy photos of their kids every time they asked a question he didn't like.

His opinion was that they boys were so stoned, they passed out on the tracks and got run over and killed by the train. To prove the high level of marijuana in their systems he kept trying to show photos of body parts. In one meeting, one of the cops finally confiscated the multiple envelopes of autopsy photos Malak had placed in front of the parents to keep Malak from opening them and showing the photos.

Malak refused court orders but finally when he showed up to a hearing, he refused to testify unless he could "show his evidence" which of course was the gruesome photos. Attorneys tried to block the display, since it was not a closed proceeding and the audience included friends, relatives, and parents of the kids, but the judge allowed them to be shown.

The parents left the room for that part of the testimony. Malak had the photos blown up into poster sizes and used these to "prove" there was pot in the boys' blood. Just exactly HOW photos of violently severed body parts proved his blood testing samples showed excessive use of pot was never explained.

Besides the book, there was a straight to video movie. I replied to someone's comment with this:

I think he's referring to "Obstruction of Justice" (http://www.idfiles.com/ojvid.htm) which is a documentary that the Ives family helped make. Amazon says they have one new copy left here: http://www.amazon.com/Obstruction-Ju...ion+of+justice .

The first link I posted is to the movie's page on the family's official website, www.idfiles.com . The "i" is for Ives and the "d" is for Jean Duffey, a deputy prosecutor for the seventh judicial district, who knew about Dan Harmon's corruption and had to go into hiding for years.

I'm not sure the family is updating their site anymore but apparently they are still keeping the site's registration current. I haven't gone through the whole thing, but the last updates I could see were from back about 1999.

[bigsir58]

Originally Posted by TracyLynnS

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...ht=boys+tracks

Here's some stuff I said in the linked thread after I read the book a year ago:

On to my opinion of Fahmy Malak. [the medical examiner] Is he still alive? I actually HATE this guy. He's not only corrupt and incompetent but unbelievably cruel. Whenever he met with the boys' parents he was offensive, defensive, arrogant, condescending, and dismissive. He made the parents and everyone else who visited his office pose for polaroids to keep a photographic record of their visit. He also continually threatened to show the the parents autopsy photos of their kids every time they asked a question he didn't like.

His opinion was that they boys were so stoned, they passed out on the tracks and got run over and killed by the train. To prove the high level of marijuana in their systems he kept trying to show photos of body parts. In one meeting, one of the cops finally confiscated the multiple envelopes of autopsy photos Malak had placed in front of the parents to keep Malak from opening them and showing the photos.

Malak refused court orders but finally when he showed up to a hearing, he refused to testify unless he could "show his evidence" which of course was the gruesome photos. Attorneys tried to block the display, since it was not a closed proceeding and the audience included friends, relatives, and parents of the kids, but the judge allowed them to be shown.

The parents left the room for that part of the testimony. Malak had the photos blown up into poster sizes and used these to "prove" there was pot in the boys' blood. Just exactly HOW photos of violently severed body parts proved his blood testing samples showed excessive use of pot was never explained.

Besides the book, there was a straight to video movie. I replied to someone's comment with this:

I think he's referring to "Obstruction of Justice" (http://www.idfiles.com/ojvid.htm) which is a documentary that the Ives family helped make. Amazon says they have one new copy left here: http://www.amazon.com/Obstruction-Ju...ion+of+justice .

The first link I posted is to the movie's page on the family's official website, www.idfiles.com . The "i" is for Ives and the "d" is for Jean Duffey, a deputy prosecutor for the seventh judicial district, who knew about Dan Harmon's corruption and had to go into hiding for years.

I'm not sure the family is updating their site anymore but apparently they are still keeping the site's registration current. I haven't gone through the whole thing, but the last updates I could see were from back about 1999.

I just ordered this book, I've always wanted to read it. Does anyone know if somewhere in these threads there is a list of the books written based on UM episodes?

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by bigsir58

I just ordered this book, I've always wanted to read it. Does anyone know if somewhere in these threads there is a list of the books written based on UM episodes?

Yep, there is. Pretty sure there's another one out there too, but this is the original:

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...d.php?t=149651

[TheCars1986]

I would have put Ralph Probst as well, but from the segment it's fairly obvious who murdered him (or had him murdered).

[bigsir58]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

Yep, there is. Pretty sure there's another one out there too, but this is the original:

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...d.php?t=149651

Ooh thank you.

[mikewho]

Yeah Kevin and don on the tracks is hard to forget. They were definitely murdered.

[dynoguy88]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

- Bobbi Oberholtzer and Annette Schnee

Yep. No matter how many years pass, that case still gets to me and it remains one of the scariest and heartbreaking segments featured on UM for so many reasons.

1. Jeff Oberholtzer seemed like one of the nicest interviewees ever. When he was interviewed 17 years later on Sensing Murder, he still had that same soft spoken voice and he spoke so affectionately towards Bobbi and his memories of her.

2. Several days before the murders, Jeff and Bobbi decided they wanted to start a family.

3. Bobbi was 29 and Annette was just 21 years old. They still had so much ahead of them in their lives.

4. The murders happened out in the remote areas of the Rocky Mountains in sub zero temperatures on one of the coldest nights of the year. When both of the women realized they were in trouble, there was nobody within miles that could help them or hear their screams. The fear both of them had must have been unbearable. Can you imagine trying to escape a mad man with a gun in the middle of nowhere in deep snow banks on a frigid cold night? Horror movies wish they could have material that scary.

5. Just to give you an idea of how cold it was that night, Bobbi's autopsy stated that the hypothermia killed her before her bullet wounds could.

6. According to the book, "Monster," when the search party member found Bobbi's body the next day, she was not lying face down, like what was depicted in the UM reenactment. She was found face up, her eyes open and the look of terror still on her face. I'm sure that poor guy must still be haunted by that sight after all these years. I know I would be.

7. While Bobbi's body was found in just one day, Annette's wasn't found until six months later. That means her loved ones spent half a year waiting and wondering what had happened to her until their worst fears were confirmed.

8. This Monday will mark the 32nd anniversary of the murders. The scum that killed these women have STILL not been charged so there is no closure for the women's family and friends. Over three decades with no closure must be absolutely horrible for those people.

[DanCart]

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

Yep. No matter how many years pass, that case still gets to me and it remains one of the scariest and heartbreaking segments featured on UM for so many reasons.

1. Jeff Oberholtzer seemed like one of the nicest interviewees ever. When he was interviewed 17 years later on Sensing Murder, he still had that same soft spoken voice and he spoke so affectionately towards Bobbi and his memories of her.

2. Several days before the murders, Jeff and Bobbi decided they wanted to start a family.

3. Bobbi was 29 and Annette was just 21 years old. They still had so much ahead of them in their lives.

4. The murders happened out in the remote areas of the Rocky Mountains in sub zero temperatures on one of the coldest nights of the year. When both of the women realized they were in trouble, there was nobody within miles that could help them or hear their screams. The fear both of them had must have been unbearable. Can you imagine trying to escape a mad man with a gun in the middle of nowhere in deep snow banks on a frigid cold night? Horror movies wish they could have material that scary.

5. Just to give you an idea of how cold it was that night, Bobbi's autopsy stated that the hypothermia killed her before her bullet wounds could.

6. According to the book, "Monster," when the search party member found Bobbi's body the next day, she was not lying face down, like what was depicted in the UM reenactment. She was found face up, her eyes open and the look of terror still on her face. I'm sure that poor guy must still be haunted by that sight after all these years. I know I would be.

7. While Bobbi's body was found in just one day, Annette's wasn't found until six months later. That means her loved ones spent half a year waiting and wondering what had happened to her until their worst fears were confirmed.

8. This Monday will mark the 32nd anniversary of the murders. The scum that killed these women have STILL not been charged so there is no closure for the women's family and friends. Over three decades with no closure must be absolutely horrible for those people.

Yeah,this case is quite shocking and has so many elements to it .....anyway
regarding

8. given what he tried to do on that fateful night this guy probably was prolific - kinda like when Ted Bundy kidnapped two girls from that Lake in one day- therefore he probably got caught by some other agency somewere and I would bet my bottom dollar he has spent a lot of time in jail for similar crimes before and after the Breckenridge crimes.

6. Whether the killer was haunted by Bobby or not is a interesting matter but if its any consolation here are a few other interesting things to consider (1) I`m sure the busted nose he got from Bobby hitting him with the brass weapon must have done him up good ! (2) this just occured to me - Annette had earlier picked up a prescription for her yeast infection...chances are Annette`s killer may have caught it when he forced himself on her ......

8. Thanks for reminding us that the anniversary is Monday its amazing how old this case now is , one tantalizing detail is who was the man in the picture found in the backpack ?

[WishfulDreamer]

Originally Posted by DanCart

(2) this just occured to me - Annette had earlier picked up a prescription for her yeast infection...chances are Annette`s killer may have caught it when he forced himself on her ......

I didn't know that she'd had a yeast infection. That's just awful and I can only imagine the utter pain she was in while trying to run away. It's a wonder she was able to run at all after the attack, but maybe it was survival instinct. That's a very good catch that the killer may have been suffering from an infection as a result. Maybe he would have told a spouse, girlfriend, or doctor...

[DanCart]

Originally Posted by WishfulDreamer

I didn't know that she'd had a yeast infection. That's just awful and I can only imagine the utter pain she was in while trying to run away. It's a wonder she was able to run at all after the attack, but maybe it was survival instinct. That's a very good catch that the killer may have been suffering from an infection as a result. Maybe he would have told a spouse, girlfriend, or doctor...

The yeast infection was mentioned in the book .....funny enough if you look up the symptoms of yeast infection in men the symptoms are very interesting !

I would love to have listed them here but I will spare people the blushes .....lets just say if the killer caught it, it would have made him think twice about trying stuff like what he did to Annette to any other person again!

[WishfulDreamer]

Originally Posted by DanCart

The yeast infection was mentioned in the book .....funny enough if you look up the symptoms of yeast infection in men the symptoms are very interesting !

I would love to have listed them here but I will spare people the blushes .....lets just say if the killer caught it, it would have made him think twice about trying stuff like what he did to Annette to any other person again!

I had to look it up but I'm sure if he had a partner at that time or shared it with anyone, they would remember! He probably would have gone to a physician to get the condition treated. I know HIPAA is in place, but I wonder if LE can override that for the sake of an investigation.

[TracyLynnS]

Originally Posted by WishfulDreamer

I had to look it up but I'm sure if he had a partner at that time or shared it with anyone, they would remember! He probably would have gone to a physician to get the condition treated. I know HIPAA is in place, but I wonder if LE can override that for the sake of an investigation.

Yes, there are provisions in HIPAA where law enforcement can get access to medical records without the patient's permission for different reasons. Investigating murders would be a good reason, imo.

Also, HIPAA was enacted in 1994, I think, and these murders happened before then. I don't know if it retroactively covers patient privacy or not. Before HIPAA, I still don't think just anyone could get access to patient records, but surely law enforcement still could.

[TracyLynnS]

Some yucky STD talk:
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If this guy got a yeast infection from one of his victims, would he even have to go to the doctor to get it treated?

Back then, women had to go to the gynecologist to be diagnosed, have a prescription written for the meds, and then go to the pharmacy to have the script filled.

But guys just went to the store and got antifungal jock itch cream over the counter. He could have treated it himself and no one would have known. Any sexual partner he may have passed it to wouldn't suspect that he got it from a victim or even an affair because it's fairly common to pass between partners, even in monogamous relationships. Also people who are not sexually active can get it, as it's not really a sexually transmitted disease.