The Death of Norman Ladner? - Page 2 - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Fukiyama · 06-17-2011, 10:36 AM

I saw this segment last night. Just want to clarify a few details.

Mrs. Ladner was confronted by the mystery man not at the funeral home, but at the coroner's office when she and her husband were there to see about getting the case reopened. She was pulled aside and told to leave it alone.

The cut on the Ladner boy's body was on the top of his head, not his neck.

I think the biggest thing for me indicating it was not suicide was the manner of death. Putting a rifle to the side of one's head and holding it steady while pulling the trigger is unnatural. If someone is going to commit suicide, it would be far easier to just put the barrel in one's mouth or under the chin. I was surprised it wasn't brought up in the segment since in cases like this where the rifle was claimed to be the method of death, it's usually pointed out how unwieldy a rifle is unless used in a certain way.

zack007attack · 06-17-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fukiyama

I saw this segment last night. Just want to clarify a few details.

Mrs. Ladner was confronted by the mystery man not at the funeral home, but at the coroner's office when she and her husband were there to see about getting the case reopened. She was pulled aside and told to leave it alone.

The cut on the Ladner boy's body was on the top of his head, not his neck.

I think the biggest thing for me indicating it was not suicide was the manner of death. Putting a rifle to the side of one's head and holding it steady while pulling the trigger is unnatural. If someone is going to commit suicide, it would be far easier to just put the barrel in one's mouth or under the chin. I was surprised it wasn't brought up in the segment since in cases like this where the rifle was claimed to be the method of death, it's usually pointed out how unwieldy a rifle is unless used in a certain way.

I agree. The police could have also examined the bullet entry wound on Norman's temple to determine whether he was shot at point-blank range or if the barrel of the gun that shot him was at a certain distance away from him.

2trackmind · 06-17-2011, 11:58 AM

Something that no one has mentioned in this thread yet is about Norman's driver's license. It's been mentioned in other threads on here that Norman's driver's license was found in New York not too long after this story originally aired. How did it get there? It didn't just walk there.

I find it odd that the Farina redux of this episode never made mention of this. It's a very important piece of information in my opinion.

CowboyStudTied · 07-30-2011, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2trackmind

Something that no one has mentioned in this thread yet is about Norman's driver's license. It's been mentioned in other threads on here that Norman's driver's license was found in New York not too long after this story originally aired. How did it get there? It didn't just walk there.

I find it odd that the Farina redux of this episode never made mention of this. It's a very important piece of information in my opinion.

I honestly think this case is related to the boys on the train tracks case.... there's so many similarities its ridiculous.... I really pray to God these 2 cases get solved....

what popular golden boy commits suicide... Norman a goodlookling, popular, good student, great family(from the looks of it)... perfect life.. there's no way he was suicidal....

marlins3 · 01-15-2012, 05:24 PM

There is some speculation that the Ives/Henry cases and Norman Ladner are connected. I won't go quite as far as to say both are tied to Mena...but the similarities are interesting.

TheCars1986 · 01-16-2012, 02:03 PM

I've always wondered why the police initally thought Norman's death was an accident. IMHO, that's certainly more believable than a suicide. Who shoots themselves in the side of the head with a rifle? I think the accident theory of Norman falling out of the tree and his gun misfiring would have been virtually accepted by everyone. IIRC, his family did indeed accept the "accident" theory and it was only when the case was changed to "suicide" that they wanted it reopened.

EDIT: In the past I've stated that I thought Norman was murdered, but I think if there was evidence that he was up in the tree and fell out this case could easily have been an accidental death. I'd just love to know what brought LE to their initial conclusion. If this indeed were an accidental death, the missing wallet could be explained by an over zealous paramedic or investigator who swiped it before anyone noticed. It wouldn't be the first time something like that happened.

baloony · 04-12-2012, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2trackmind

Something that no one has mentioned in this thread yet is about Norman's driver's license. It's been mentioned in other threads on here that Norman's driver's license was found in New York not too long after this story originally aired. How did it get there? It didn't just walk there.

I find it odd that the Farina redux of this episode never made mention of this. It's a very important piece of information in my opinion.

Did they mention his license ending up in New York in the original segment?

baloony · 04-12-2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyStudTied

that was a bit harsh I just wish this case would be solved the right way

I just hope its in this lifetime

And sadly, Norman's father is now deceased.

justins5256 · 04-12-2012, 03:50 PM

I think the biggest problem with this case, as with many of the suicide vs. murder cases, is lack of information.

It would be helpful to know, for instance, if there was GSR on Norman's hands, or stippling in the entrance wound which would indicate a shot fired from close range.

Unfortunately, UM tends to leave out this type of information. Probably so the case seems more "mysterious".

I do think it's kind of interesting/telling that the sheriff said if the ruling was changed to "accidental" the parents would probably let the matter go. Norman's parents made some similar comments earlier in the segment alluding to the fact that they initially didn't suspect murder, but an accidental shooting. It just makes me wonder if they couldn't cope with the suicide ruling, so they perpetuated the murder scenario.

baloony · 04-14-2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justins5256

I think the biggest problem with this case, as with many of the suicide vs. murder cases, is lack of information.

It would be helpful to know, for instance, if there was GSR on Norman's hands, or stippling in the entrance wound which would indicate a shot fired from close range.

Unfortunately, UM tends to leave out this type of information. Probably so the case seems more "mysterious".

I do think it's kind of interesting/telling that the sheriff said if the ruling was changed to "accidental" the parents would probably let the matter go. Norman's parents made some similar comments earlier in the segment alluding to the fact that they initially didn't suspect murder, but an accidental shooting. It just makes me wonder if they couldn't cope with the suicide ruling, so they perpetuated the murder scenario.

I have always wondered if there was a GSR test done on Norman's hands. There sure should have been, but given how this case was handled, it wouldn't surprise me if a GSR test was not done.

Victoria81 · 09-07-2013, 05:05 PM

It's awkward to hold a gun that long to your head. I wish this would be solved

JenniferS. · 09-08-2013, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victoria81

It's awkward to hold a gun that long to your head. I wish this would be solved

I bleive they found his wallet in city on side of road some months later. Leading others to bleive it had something to do with drug operation.

WishfulDreamer · 11-23-2013, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JenniferS.

I bleive they found his wallet in city on side of road some months later. Leading others to bleive it had something to do with drug operation.

This just strengthens my conviction that this was a murder.

JenniferS. · 11-23-2013, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WishfulDreamer

This just strengthens my conviction that this was a murder.

It all depends how the wallet got were it got as to weather it had anything to do with Norman's murder.

MegtheEgg86 · 07-07-2014, 11:06 AM

Re-watched this segment last night.

I'm not sure how the suicide theory wasn't challenged in a manner similar to that which was presented in the Rae Ann Mossor segment. I have a difficult time envisioning a young man putting the muzzle of a rifle to his temple, reaching over to engage the trigger, and being able to hold the weapon steadily all at the same time. And as a previous poster mentioned, if you choose to take your life utilizing such a firearm, placing the muzzle under the chin or in the mouth is more, well, comfortable and natural (as absolutely awful as that sounds). I know we don't have much information about the firearm, however.

For those of you who think this may have been an accident, how do you suppose that it happened? Does anyone have any other thoughts on this case?

07-07-2014, 11:06 AM	#30
MegtheEgg86 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Jun 19, 2008 Location: The Volunteer State Posts: 5,156	Re-watched this segment last night. I'm not sure how the suicide theory wasn't challenged in a manner similar to that which was presented in the Rae Ann Mossor segment. I have a difficult time envisioning a young man putting the muzzle of a rifle to his temple, reaching over to engage the trigger, and being able to hold the weapon steadily all at the same time. And as a previous poster mentioned, if you choose to take your life utilizing such a firearm, placing the muzzle under the chin or in the mouth is more, well, comfortable and natural (as absolutely awful as that sounds). I know we don't have much information about the firearm, however. For those of you who think this may have been an accident, how do you suppose that it happened? Does anyone have any other thoughts on this case?
	__________________ "Why is she lying?, it makes me wonder. What is she hiding?, it makes me wonder." Go Vols!

06-17-2011, 10:36 AM	#16
Fukiyama Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Feb 23, 2011 Posts: 18	I saw this segment last night. Just want to clarify a few details. Mrs. Ladner was confronted by the mystery man not at the funeral home, but at the coroner's office when she and her husband were there to see about getting the case reopened. She was pulled aside and told to leave it alone. The cut on the Ladner boy's body was on the top of his head, not his neck. I think the biggest thing for me indicating it was not suicide was the manner of death. Putting a rifle to the side of one's head and holding it steady while pulling the trigger is unnatural. If someone is going to commit suicide, it would be far easier to just put the barrel in one's mouth or under the chin. I was surprised it wasn't brought up in the segment since in cases like this where the rifle was claimed to be the method of death, it's usually pointed out how unwieldy a rifle is unless used in a certain way.

06-17-2011, 11:58 AM	#18
2trackmind Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 20, 2011 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 26	Something that no one has mentioned in this thread yet is about Norman's driver's license. It's been mentioned in other threads on here that Norman's driver's license was found in New York not too long after this story originally aired. How did it get there? It didn't just walk there. I find it odd that the Farina redux of this episode never made mention of this. It's a very important piece of information in my opinion.

01-15-2012, 05:24 PM	#20
marlins3 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 22, 2007 Posts: 474	There is some speculation that the Ives/Henry cases and Norman Ladner are connected. I won't go quite as far as to say both are tied to Mena...but the similarities are interesting.

01-16-2012, 02:03 PM	#21
TheCars1986 #VLSKMS Forum Fanatic Join Date: Nov 22, 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 8,641	I've always wondered why the police initally thought Norman's death was an accident. IMHO, that's certainly more believable than a suicide. Who shoots themselves in the side of the head with a rifle? I think the accident theory of Norman falling out of the tree and his gun misfiring would have been virtually accepted by everyone. IIRC, his family did indeed accept the "accident" theory and it was only when the case was changed to "suicide" that they wanted it reopened. EDIT: In the past I've stated that I thought Norman was murdered, but I think if there was evidence that he was up in the tree and fell out this case could easily have been an accidental death. I'd just love to know what brought LE to their initial conclusion. If this indeed were an accidental death, the missing wallet could be explained by an over zealous paramedic or investigator who swiped it before anyone noticed. It wouldn't be the first time something like that happened.

04-12-2012, 03:50 PM	#24
justins5256 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 08, 2002 Posts: 3,866	I think the biggest problem with this case, as with many of the suicide vs. murder cases, is lack of information. It would be helpful to know, for instance, if there was GSR on Norman's hands, or stippling in the entrance wound which would indicate a shot fired from close range. Unfortunately, UM tends to leave out this type of information. Probably so the case seems more "mysterious". I do think it's kind of interesting/telling that the sheriff said if the ruling was changed to "accidental" the parents would probably let the matter go. Norman's parents made some similar comments earlier in the segment alluding to the fact that they initially didn't suspect murder, but an accidental shooting. It just makes me wonder if they couldn't cope with the suicide ruling, so they perpetuated the murder scenario.

09-07-2013, 05:05 PM	#26
Victoria81 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 20, 2011 Posts: 340	It's awkward to hold a gun that long to your head. I wish this would be solved