Katherine Korzilius

[EighthStreet]

My car had been sitting in the full sun on an cloudless 85 degree day yesterday, and after seeing this thread again I decided to run a little experiment. After driving home and getting in the garage I got out quick and touched the roof, and would you believe it, the surface was only just warm to the touch.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by Mike82

Agreed. A hit-and-run was a reasonable theory early on (setting aside that she was found in the opposite direction from where she was reportedly walking), and it's what people initially thought had happened to me when I was four years old and found lying in the middle of the road after going over the handlebars of my tricycle while riding downhill. However, once ER staff examined me, they determined my injuries were limited to my face, hands, and arms: injuries consistent with a fall, not being struck by a vehicle. Likewise, the Medical Examiner's report makes it clear that her injuries are not consistent with a hit-and-run.



While it is theoretically possible, just as it is a 2X4 struck her like Jenny Pratt, it is an incredible stretch. Mirrors are small and to accidentally hit a child in the middle of the road at a high rate of speed is basically impossible.

Occam's razor clearly applies in this case.

Yep.. I feel the same way about the idea that there was an abduction.. Anything is possible, but.. When you have so many things that have to have gone a certain way for that to happen.. It just puts the odds of it so low that it's really not believable.

Originally Posted by EighthStreet

My car had been sitting in the full sun on an cloudless 85 degree day yesterday, and after seeing this thread again I decided to run a little experiment. After driving home and getting in the garage I got out quick and touched the roof, and would you believe it, the surface was only just warm to the touch.

That's.. Not EXACTLY a valid test.. First, the vehicle they had was something like a suburban or explorer as I recall.. She would have been sitting on the back bumper or holding the rear hatch handle, which wouldn't be metal - the bumper might have been chrome, which would be highly reflective and cooler than a painted surface - and, pending on how it had been parked, wouldn't get direct sun.. Plus, they had been driving, with the moving air, that would have cooled the temps.. Then there's the color of the vehicle.. A white vehicle will wind up being cooler than a black vehicle. Not a ton, but significantly.

And.. Well.. Texas in August would likely be significantly different. In fact, it shows Austin had a high of 99 degrees that day.

I agree with your point. Just not your methodology.

[Dogface82]

The following crude sketches are based on personal observatio, experience and basic public school science.
1) Small child seated on bumper. Completely in blindspot from driver & passengers. Take off will cause feet to swing up & head, upper body tilt towards toes initially.
2) In travel mode both vehicle & child are travelling at same speed

3) When child dismounts or is dislodged both travel in same direction because of momentum. What ever hits first in this (case feet) is anchor causing the the rest of the body to stretch in direction of travel & down. This a fly swatter type full body slam with head as final point of contact.
4) This variation is butt slam followed by upper body & head slam.
5) This variation the feet leave the ground in a different full body slam (plop)
6) Here the feet bounce up & head is last to impact or bounce & impact again.
End result is a victim that appears laid out with minimum clothes rumpling. This matches the mothers description. I think this took place at 10-25 mph.
Locally about 2006 midsummer, I came across a girl about 10 yrs old who was thrown from the back of a motorcycle during a crash at highway speeds 45-65 mph. She appeared laid out in the supine, very clean. She had flown over 20 feet.
@labonte18: I watched the segment since our discussion about a year ago. The mother stated that she had let Katherine walk home after checking the mail more than once without incident. Personally I believe the mother was unaware Katherine had hopped on the bumper. Even though I previously outlined the possibilty Katherine could hopped someone elses bumper I feel that is unlikely, as is the hit & run or abduction.
There was a disturbing comment on this or another thread that the mom was fully aware her daughter had been riding the bumper.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by Dogface82

Attachment 336155
There was a disturbing comment on this or another thread that the mom was fully aware her daughter had been riding the bumper.

I haven't seen or didn't pay attention to that.. I have seen that it's been said that she had been allowed or it was known that IN THE PAST, Katherine had ridden on the bumper.

Your drawings, while sound, omit that we don't know for certain that she was, but.. In fairness, yes, let's assume she was. She was found halfway around the circle to the home.. Now, what we don't know.. Was there any kind of bump there that may have dislodged her? Did the mother 'goose' the gas at that time for some reason, which could have caused her to fall?

Assuming again that she was on the bumper.. How was she on it? Was she seated as your drawings show.. or.. What i've always kinda had in my minds eye is that she was standing on the bumper, facing the direction of travel, and holding on to the rear door/hatch handle, when she lost her grip and fell off backwards..

Which.. would almost certainly result in an injury to the back of the head.. As even if she landed butt-first, which would probably be likely, the impact would have caused her head to slam back into the pavement. Thus resulting in the fractured skull

I've never seen, that I can recall, that the source of the injury was to the back of the head specifically. I presume it was.

I believe there were scratches on her hip.. Which is still consistent. Instinct, I believe would be if you were falling backwards to attempt to turn yourself around to attempt to use your arms to break the fall.

"Hip" is also rather generic without seeing drawings of where the scrapes were. I'm sure medically there's a place where butt ends and hip starts.

[Dogface82]

The main purpose was to show the effects of momentum or forward throw. I hopped off of a truck bed as part of parachute training in Texas. I was surprised when I fell towards the bumper instead of to the rear. I was 20 a military trained paratrooper had experience dismounting & pickup on horse back. I really knew better. And still expected it to be like hopping off a porch!
As country/small town kids we rode tailgates & bumpers all the time. I only saw kids fall from vehicles a couple of times. A group of 4 or 5 were standing on the rear bumper hanging onto a closed tailgate. The tailgate opened they initially fell backwards & down. Landed on their butts & rolled forward in the direction of travel. They were crumpled up but got up with no real injuries. This didn't happen with the old trucks where the tailgate was secured by hooks through eyelets. I saw the door of an old truck swing open with a toddler hanging on. He was launched into a large tall clump of switchgrass, no injuries. That was the 1960s& 70s.

You are right, there is so much we don't know. I made the sketch based on the description she was laid out with no facial injuries. A slowdown or stop would have just tightened Katherine against the vehicle. She may have been riding looking forward as you described & just lost her balance while shifting position. There may have been a slight acceleration, or swerve. She may have dismounted by stepping down not knowing the effects of momentum. I think she was facing rearward from the vehicle or sidesways turning so she hit the ground on her back, or on her side rolling onto her back head in direction of travel.
Her head slam even it was a small one was aggravated by the added vehicle momentum and kid's heads are porportionately larger & heavier than adults. There was so much added force it was fatal compared to a similar fall on a carpeted floor or grassy lawn that only stuns. Again this is my best guess based on the sparse info available.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by Dogface82

Her head slam even it was a small one was aggravated by the added vehicle momentum and kid's heads are porportionately larger & heavier than adults. There was so much added force it was fatal compared to a similar fall on a carpeted floor or grassy lawn that only stuns. Again this is my best guess based on the sparse info available.

Well.. Not always. Sometimes.. Or really, many times, it's just how things wind up happening. Angles and weird forces and how they apply and transmit through the medium.. In this case, a human skull.

Remember, we've got a pretty long list of people who have died from "minor" head injuries.

Bob Saget whacked his head on the headboard of a bed.. Liam Nieson's wife and Sonny Bono both in skiing accidents.. Though, those two were quite different. Bono did a "George of the Jungle" while I believe Natasha whateverhernamewas (I'm not looking it up and not trying to spell it because I'll screw it up) was a simple fall where she just hit her head.

This one.. Had to have been quite the impact to fracture the skull.. She was only a child, but it still would have required a significant impact to fracture it.

FWIW.. I'm not certain that any of the above people mentioned had fractured skulls.. I believe Bono might have, but pretty sure that Saget and Natasha were closed head injuries.

[tvscript124]

This is a sad case no matter what. I'm still ambivalent about it being a fall from the bumper. Unfortunately, it's dubious that we'll ever really know the truth.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by tvscript124

This is a sad case no matter what. I'm still ambivalent about it being a fall from the bumper. Unfortunately, it's dubious that we'll ever really know the truth.

I agree.. This is one where the truth is what you make of it. For me, the evidence weighs much more towards an accident vs an abduction.

Can I say that's what happened? No. But I can say that in my opinion, it's the most likely scenario.