The Wackers case file

[nicoge21]

So they made the whole thing up to get on TV? In the back of my mind I always thought parts of the story were made up. What are the odds of someone screwing with the same elderly couple for over a decade? Makes you wonder.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by nicoge21

So they made the whole thing up to get on TV? In the back of my mind I always thought parts of the story were made up. What are the odds of someone screwing with the same elderly couple for over a decade? Makes you wonder.

Perhaps getting on TV wasn't the goal, just.. Attention seekers? And it snowballed into them getting a segment on UM, which was just a bonus?

I don't know for sure.. None of us do.. But.. It just.. Nothing adds up here, other than it being faked. That's the only outcome that really checks all the boxes.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

Perhaps getting on TV wasn't the goal, just.. Attention seekers? And it snowballed into them getting a segment on UM, which was just a bonus?

I don't know for sure.. None of us do.. But.. It just.. Nothing adds up here, other than it being faked. That's the only outcome that really checks all the boxes.

I still am inclined to believe the Wackers. My honest opinion is that Unsolved Mysteries in an effort to make this case seem stranger and more mysterious than it was, left out some critical details and they inadvertently gave a lot of people the impression they fabricated all this. For instance, the shoe prints found in 1993 that did not match Bill or Dorothy. And Mr Pedigo the neighbor who went an untied Dorothy in 1985 testifying he heard someone slamming the door and fleeing when Dorothy was still tied up.

And their daughter had to be in on it too, because she heard the banging on the house same as the others did.

Not to mention, apparently at least one of the neighbors did not think much of the Wackers, telling the authorities they brought a lot of this on themselves. That has to raise at least some red flags.

Could they have fabricated it? Its possible, but it doesn't really sit right with me. These incidents seemed to have started kind of out of nowhere in 1984, and as far as I know the Wackers had no history of doing anything else like this in the past. The notion an old couple with no history of doing things like this just starts this up out of nowhere us difficult to swallow, just for attention.

I personally think a neighbor being behind it does check a lot of the oddity boxes in the case, and that there was in fact some evidence of an intruder that was simply never mentioned. Also that the local sheriffs dept simply did not take them seriously from the beginning.

I acknowledge though that I could be wrong.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by XCalibur

I still am inclined to believe the Wackers. My honest opinion is that Unsolved Mysteries in an effort to make this case seem stranger and more mysterious than it was, left out some critical details and they inadvertently gave a lot of people the impression they fabricated all this. For instance, the shoe prints found in 1993 that did not match Bill or Dorothy. And Mr Pedigo the neighbor who went an untied Dorothy in 1985 testifying he heard someone slamming the door and fleeing when Dorothy was still tied up.

And their daughter had to be in on it too, because she heard the banging on the house same as the others did.

Not to mention, apparently at least one of the neighbors did not think much of the Wackers, telling the authorities they brought a lot of this on themselves. That has to raise at least some red flags.

Could they have fabricated it? Its possible, but it doesn't really sit right with me. These incidents seemed to have started kind of out of nowhere in 1984, and as far as I know the Wackers had no history of doing anything else like this in the past. The notion an old couple with no history of doing things like this just starts this up out of nowhere us difficult to swallow, just for attention.

I personally think a neighbor being behind it does check a lot of the oddity boxes in the case, and that there was in fact some evidence of an intruder that was simply never mentioned. Also that the local sheriffs dept simply did not take them seriously from the beginning.

I acknowledge though that I could be wrong.

Again, none of us know for sure, so.. I can't say you're wrong, I can't say I'm right.

It's just really hard to fathom that someone could do all this - at times right under the noses of cops and family members staking out the house.

That's crap you only see in the movies.

It's also rather hard to believe that this 'sweet old couple' could make it all up.

It's something I doubt that we'll ever know the answer to.. So.. 50 years down the road, i'm betting the argument over whether it was faked or real will still be happening. Both Bill and Dorothy have passed and they didn't confess before they went.

I still don't think the million dollar question has been answered, tho.. Did all this continue after the UM episode aired? I don't think that answers anything, but I'm pretty sure it's something we all want to know the answer to.

[tvscript124]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

Again, none of us know for sure, so.. I can't say you're wrong, I can't say I'm right.

It's just really hard to fathom that someone could do all this - at times right under the noses of cops and family members staking out the house.

That's crap you only see in the movies.

It's also rather hard to believe that this 'sweet old couple' could make it all up.

It's something I doubt that we'll ever know the answer to.. So.. 50 years down the road, i'm betting the argument over whether it was faked or real will still be happening. Both Bill and Dorothy have passed and they didn't confess before they went.

I still don't think the million dollar question has been answered, tho.. Did all this continue after the UM episode aired? I don't think that answers anything, but I'm pretty sure it's something we all want to know the answer to.

Much like Cindy James.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by tvscript124

Much like Cindy James.

The similarities between those two cases are pretty striking. They even took placed over a similar time frame, the mid to late 80's.

Of course there is one glaring difference, Cindy James wound up dead under mysterious circumstances, the Wackers went on to die of natural causes later on.

Its also noteworthy that the police believed that Dorothy Wacker after her first assault was tied up in such a way police believed she could not have done it herself, Cindy James was found several times assaulted and tied up, and the authorities in her case believed she could have done it herself.

However in James's case, the coroner also refused to rule it suicide but basically undetermined, but the police immediately dismissed it as a suicide. And I'm fairly certain at Cindy James' death scene, highway workers said they had been over the site and not spotted her body there before, meaning she could not have been there long. This is significant because she had been dead multiple days when they found her, meaning she could not have succumbed to her death there, but was placed there, which means it almost had to be murder. Then again, these workers could be mistaken about the body not being there before.

I lean towards both cases being real harassment. There were tangible suspects in the Cindy James case, not as much in the Wackers though it sounds to me like the neighbors should have been.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

Again, none of us know for sure, so.. I can't say you're wrong, I can't say I'm right.

It's just really hard to fathom that someone could do all this - at times right under the noses of cops and family members staking out the house.

That's crap you only see in the movies.

It's also rather hard to believe that this 'sweet old couple' could make it all up.

It's something I doubt that we'll ever know the answer to.. So.. 50 years down the road, i'm betting the argument over whether it was faked or real will still be happening. Both Bill and Dorothy have passed and they didn't confess before they went.

I still don't think the million dollar question has been answered, tho.. Did all this continue after the UM episode aired? I don't think that answers anything, but I'm pretty sure it's something we all want to know the answer to.

I understand your rationale, but it goes back to what I said I think some misleading info has been put out in this case, there is enough in the details to make me think this. We all love Unsolved Mysteries but are aware it was notorious for making a lot of cases seem stranger than they really were.

As to the harassment going on or not after the broadcast, it seems there were no more reported incidents after that. That doesn't mean nothing happened mind you, but apparently either nothing was really happening or the Wackers just got tired of reporting it. I don't think anything serious like an assault happened though cause obviously they have to do that regardless. It does seem that the second assault may have made the authorities at least take it somewhat seriously again so it might have scared the perps into stopping as maybe it was getting out of hand. If so at least the Wackers had some peace for a few years.

What is not clear to me though, is some things about the second assault. I read in the report files Dorothy sustained no known injuries, the UM broadcast said she had skull lacerations which isn't a real injury, but I saw a podcast the other night that said she had a concussion in fact. People also wondered how someone got close to her without her dog raising a fuss. But apparently she was taking to dog out to go to the bathroom, and I've read some animals can miss things if they are focused on doing their business. If it was a neighbor, maybe the dog was familiar with them and therefore was not alarmed. Also it makes people believe Bill did it, and Bill was in fact home when the second assault happened, which I admit does seem suspicious. As it seems less likely anyone else could have snuck up behind Dorothy without the dog raising a fuss.

Just a lot of unanswered questions.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by XCalibur

I understand your rationale, but it goes back to what I said I think some misleading info has been put out in this case, there is enough in the details to make me think this. We all love Unsolved Mysteries but are aware it was notorious for making a lot of cases seem stranger than they really were.

As to the harassment going on or not after the broadcast, it seems there were no more reported incidents after that. That doesn't mean nothing happened mind you, but apparently either nothing was really happening or the Wackers just got tired of reporting it. I don't think anything serious like an assault happened though cause obviously they have to do that regardless. It does seem that the second assault may have made the authorities at least take it somewhat seriously again so it might have scared the perps into stopping as maybe it was getting out of hand. If so at least the Wackers had some peace for a few years.

What is not clear to me though, is some things about the second assault. I read in the report files Dorothy sustained no known injuries, the UM broadcast said she had skull lacerations which isn't a real injury, but I saw a podcast the other night that said she had a concussion in fact. People also wondered how someone got close to her without her dog raising a fuss. But apparently she was taking to dog out to go to the bathroom, and I've read some animals can miss things if they are focused on doing their business. If it was a neighbor, maybe the dog was familiar with them and therefore was not alarmed. Also it makes people believe Bill did it, and Bill was in fact home when the second assault happened, which I admit does seem suspicious. As it seems less likely anyone else could have snuck up behind Dorothy without the dog raising a fuss.

Just a lot of unanswered questions.

So far as the concussion.. Concussions weren't really taken seriously back in the day. They weren't really properly diagnosed.. You got hit over the head, the docs would say "Eh, probably a concussion"

I had like 3 of them in high school alone.. Coaches would just say "Ah.. You got your bell rung.. Sit out for 5 minutes and then get back in there"

We have come quite a ways. In the diagnosis and the treatment of concussions since that time.

[tvscript124]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

So far as the concussion.. Concussions weren't really taken seriously back in the day. They weren't really properly diagnosed.. You got hit over the head, the docs would say "Eh, probably a concussion"

I had like 3 of them in high school alone.. Coaches would just say "Ah.. You got your bell rung.. Sit out for 5 minutes and then get back in there"

We have come quite a ways. In the diagnosis and the treatment of concussions since that time.

This!! People did not take TBIs as seriously, to your point, and OT, a lot of football players have suffered psychological damage because of the concussions. Think of that movie "Concussion" that got nominated for Oscars.

Whenever anyone elderly falls these days, one of the things that automatically gets them sent to trauma centers is if they hit their head. At least in my personal experience. Dorothy Wacker's head injury would be handled WAY differently today.

[tvscript124]

Originally Posted by XCalibur

The similarities between those two cases are pretty striking. They even took placed over a similar time frame, the mid to late 80's.

Of course there is one glaring difference, Cindy James wound up dead under mysterious circumstances, the Wackers went on to die of natural causes later on.

Its also noteworthy that the police believed that Dorothy Wacker after her first assault was tied up in such a way police believed she could not have done it herself, Cindy James was found several times assaulted and tied up, and the authorities in her case believed she could have done it herself.

However in James's case, the coroner also refused to rule it suicide but basically undetermined, but the police immediately dismissed it as a suicide. And I'm fairly certain at Cindy James' death scene, highway workers said they had been over the site and not spotted her body there before, meaning she could not have been there long. This is significant because she had been dead multiple days when they found her, meaning she could not have succumbed to her death there, but was placed there, which means it almost had to be murder. Then again, these workers could be mistaken about the body not being there before.

I lean towards both cases being real harassment. There were tangible suspects in the Cindy James case, not as much in the Wackers though it sounds to me like the neighbors should have been.

The Cindy James "she tied herself up" always seemed a bit strange to me. OTOH, I'm not doubting what the investigators said, especially if she took morphine in pill form (and read Agatha Christie).

The police believed Dorothy was tied up by someone else, I think, because she was elderly. Elderly people aren't helpless (media stereotypes to the contrary), but their physical strength and reaction time and recovery time are different than younger people's. I highly doubt she could have tied herself up, which means a co-conspirator if she was staging this. But who? Bill?

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by tvscript124

This!! People did not take TBIs as seriously, to your point, and OT, a lot of football players have suffered psychological damage because of the concussions. Think of that movie "Concussion" that got nominated for Oscars.

Whenever anyone elderly falls these days, one of the things that automatically gets them sent to trauma centers is if they hit their head. At least in my personal experience. Dorothy Wacker's head injury would be handled WAY differently today.

TBI wasn't even a term back in the 80's and.. Probably the 90's as well. Concussions were just treated with rest and if you got 2, 3 or 20 of them.. No big deal.

So far as I know, i've had no adverse effects from the multiple ones that I've had, but.. In general.. I wouldn't know.

There's a Harvard educated former pro wrestler.. Bet you never thought you'd see those words side by side.. Christopher Nowinski. He wound up with post-concussion syndrome which led to his retirement from wrestling, but co-founded the CTE center at Boston University and is one of the leading researchers in the world on the subject.

[tvscript124]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

TBI wasn't even a term back in the 80's and.. Probably the 90's as well. Concussions were just treated with rest and if you got 2, 3 or 20 of them.. No big deal.

So far as I know, i've had no adverse effects from the multiple ones that I've had, but.. In general.. I wouldn't know.

There's a Harvard educated former pro wrestler.. Bet you never thought you'd see those words side by side.. Christopher Nowinski. He wound up with post-concussion syndrome which led to his retirement from wrestling, but co-founded the CTE center at Boston University and is one of the leading researchers in the world on the subject.

I actually have heard of him!

[Allierain]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

TBI wasn't even a term back in the 80's and.. Probably the 90's as well. Concussions were just treated with rest and if you got 2, 3 or 20 of them.. No big deal.

So far as I know, i've had no adverse effects from the multiple ones that I've had, but.. In general.. I wouldn't know.

There's a Harvard educated former pro wrestler.. Bet you never thought you'd see those words side by side.. Christopher Nowinski. He wound up with post-concussion syndrome which led to his retirement from wrestling, but co-founded the CTE center at Boston University and is one of the leading researchers in the world on the subject.

The night I got my TBI I had seizured out and don’t remember being taken to the hospital. I found out later they never checked me for a hematoma. When I started coming out of the seizure I was sitting in the ER waiting room holding discharge papers I don’t remember signing. I vaguely remember stumbling to a phone to call for a ride. I spoke backwards for three months. Hippocampus damage. Hospitals don’t take head injuries as seriously as they should now, let alone in the 1980s.

[tvscript124]

Originally Posted by Allierain

The night I got my TBI I had seizured out and don’t remember being taken to the hospital. I found out later they never checked me for a hematoma. When I started coming out of the seizure I was sitting in the ER waiting room holding discharge papers I don’t remember signing. I vaguely remember stumbling to a phone to call for a ride. I spoke backwards for three months. Hippocampus damage. Hospitals don’t take head injuries as seriously as they should now, let alone in the 1980s.

That is horrible. I hope you are OK now.

[Dogface82]

I was finally able to view this segment. It begins at 30 minutes comcludes at 42 minute season 6 episode 23 a two hour special. Dorothy had suffered a blow to the head by the guy who borrowed the phone. Could the "attack" when she let the dog out been an accidental fall? The head injury from that incident could have left her confused. Default would be to assume it was the harasser.

Security lights really tend to be a joke. Most are poorly situated and benefit everyone but the homeowner. I have seen lights that create blind spots or spotlight and blind the homeowner. This hold true on commercial property and military sites as well. So I can understand why Bill removed the lights or refused to add more depending on the version of the story.

The stolen pistol, scanner and movie or video camera sound like a robbery kit. Camera for casing, scanner for casing and real time info, pistol for muscle. It doesn't seem the ballistic characteristics of the pistol were ever tested or put into a system for comparison. The messages on rocks found on the porch could have been launched by a wrist rocket or even a hockey stick from distances well outside of viewing range in darkness.

This could easily be harrasment or gaslighting from a neighbor, an acquaintance or a third party who gained information on them. It seems local law enforcement could have done a better job. I have read the links provided on this thread to the casefiles. I take official police reports with a grain of salt based on personal experience.
Personally I don't think Bill and Dorothy did this to themselves.