Tami Lynn Leppert

[bigted12]

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

Information about all of this was provided in both the segment and articles online. It was the incident where she broke the window with the baseball bat that prompted her mother to check Tammy in to the Brevard County Mental Health Center for a complete physical and psychiatric evaluation. Doctors found no alcohol or drugs in her system. She was then placed under observation for 72 hours before being released to go home.

I don't sense any drug use being her problem. Her paranoia went off and on for several months. Her breakdown and response on the set of Scarface was a huge red flag in hindsight, especially when she ended up talking to the police and suddenly doing a 180 and apparently never revealing she thought her life was in danger. Her thinking her relatives were trying to poison her was something that should have been taken more seriously as well.

In the end, while I do believe fully that she had some psychotic break (or multiple ones over time), her fate ended up being nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time and she was the victim of foul play. Whomever picked her up after being dropped off at the Glass Bank killed her and disposed her somewhere in the bay.

Mmmmm I dunno, I think what you've said in many ways denies reality when it comes to these things. I mean when someone has what you've described you see little signs, theres a history of these things, of not being able to cope with certain things in life which goes back years...

We're essentially told that Tammy for 18 years was the quinessential americas sweetheart, happy, normal, everyone loved her...but then she goes away on the friday like that and comes back on the monday a complete nut job.

That's not very realistic. reading about this case, friends and family all say the same thing "before the party she was fine and then she came home totally different"

This has made people come with up theories that see saw some hollywood satanic death rituals! i personally don't believe that, because that wouldn't make you question your mother and if she was poisioning you right?

Something happened at that party, i don't believe she was a drug addict, i don't even believe that "use" is the right word, someone could have one time slipped something into her drink that messed with her brain. and theres plenty of examples of going back to the 70s and 80s.

But the idea that for 18 years she was carefree, normal, happy... the goes to a party and comes back acting the way she did...as a coincidence... naaa.

[JM]

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

Information about all of this was provided in both the segment and articles online. It was the incident where she broke the window with the baseball bat that prompted her mother to check Tammy in to the Brevard County Mental Health Center for a complete physical and psychiatric evaluation. Doctors found no alcohol or drugs in her system. She was then placed under observation for 72 hours before being released to go home.

I don't sense any drug use being her problem. Her paranoia went off and on for several months. Her breakdown and response on the set of Scarface was a huge red flag in hindsight, especially when she ended up talking to the police and suddenly doing a 180 and apparently never revealing she thought her life was in danger. Her thinking her relatives were trying to poison her was something that should have been taken more seriously as well.

In the end, while I do believe fully that she had some psychotic break (or multiple ones over time), her fate ended up being nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time and she was the victim of foul play. Whomever picked her up after being dropped off at the Glass Bank killed her and disposed her somewhere in the bay.

I agree with all of this. Not sure about where she was disposed, but, the rest of it rings true to me. This is one of those cases where multiple things can be true at once.

[blacksymbiote]

Originally Posted by bigted12

Not true,

it was her friend who reported that she came home from that party "a completely different person" and "acting strange"

on the set of scarface we're told she "freaked out"

The last time anybody saw her was in the car when she had an "episode" and just stormed off..

Various friends of hers have said that something happened to her at that party and it clearly did.

We have no real evidence that something bad was taking place in the home, when she returned back from that party, her mother took her to a clinic who kept her in for 72 hours. the mother and the stepbrother guy did the UM episode...

hardly the actions of guilty people and a terrible home life... again, before this party she was the fun loving all american girl. so what happened?

the party is key, some of suggested she saw some satanic type stuff.. but how would that make her act like she did?

the only rational answer is a drug that messed with her brain chemstry and the 70s and 80s are full of similar events.

Wing was the friend who said she came back from the party a different person and the guy who drove her to the beach just said they got in an argument, not that she seemed paranoid.

[bigted12]

Originally Posted by blacksymbiote

Wing was the friend who said she came back from the party a different person and the guy who drove her to the beach just said they got in an argument, not that she seemed paranoid.

It was clearly much more than just an "argument" according to what we're shown on the UM segment she got all irrational and demanded to be let out of the car without shoes on...

According to books and websites she then rushes to an exxon gas station where she makes 3 "frantic" calls to her aunt leaving messages on the answer machine all within the space of a couple of minutes..

Then instead of simply returning home, she disappears forever.. factor all those things in, and obviously she was acting paranoid and irrationally.

[blacksymbiote]

Originally Posted by bigted12

It was clearly much more than just an "argument" according to what we're shown on the UM segment she got all irrational and demanded to be let out of the car without shoes on...

According to books and websites she then rushes to an exxon gas station where she makes 3 "frantic" calls to her aunt leaving messages on the answer machine all within the space of a couple of minutes..

Then instead of simply returning home, she disappears forever.. factor all those things in, and obviously she was acting paranoid and irrationally.

UM dramatized that. She had shoes and her driver friend hadn't said anything about her being crazy. Holding her after she asked to be let out would be a crime and her calling in for rides isn't irrational. Tammy didn't just call her aunt but also another friend who didn't answer plus I believe a third call that hasn't been identified and may be key to the case.

[bigted12]

Originally Posted by blacksymbiote

UM dramatized that. She had shoes and her driver friend hadn't said anything about her being crazy. Holding her after she asked to be let out would be a crime and her calling in for rides isn't irrational. Tammy didn't just call her aunt but also another friend who didn't answer plus I believe a third call that hasn't been identified and may be key to the case.

According to various sources she left 3 "frantic" voicemails on her aunts answer machine... if you're saying she made more calls then i dunno..

As for saying that UM dramtized what happened. well how do we know that? how do we know it was more dramatic or less dramatic then what we're shown?

Everything i've read on this says she left the car barefooted.

It's impossible to come to a conclusion on a case when theres so much relativism or people change the course of events or even reality to make a theory fit.

We're universally told that tammy was 100% fine and normal up until that party, in order to make some theories fit "maybe she was mentally ill", but people don't get struck down with mental illness like they do with the flu. you show signs of it before, maybe small signs... you don't come home one day acting like she did unless an event triggered it.

People then could argue "well maybe her mom lied, maybe her mom ignorned it.."

maybe.. but and although i love to have theories and speculate, you need to have some base of truth and events to work with, because if you watch this segment of UM or read a website you dont like and then say "well all that didn't happen..."

then you could pretty much argue anything.

[blacksymbiote]

Originally Posted by bigted12

According to various sources she left 3 "frantic" voicemails on her aunts answer machine... if you're saying she made more calls then i dunno..

As for saying that UM dramtized what happened. well how do we know that? how do we know it was more dramatic or less dramatic then what we're shown?

Everything i've read on this says she left the car barefooted.

It's impossible to come to a conclusion on a case when theres so much relativism or people change the course of events or even reality to make a theory fit.

We're universally told that tammy was 100% fine and normal up until that party, in order to make some theories fit "maybe she was mentally ill", but people don't get struck down with mental illness like they do with the flu. you show signs of it before, maybe small signs... you don't come home one day acting like she did unless an event triggered it.

People then could argue "well maybe her mom lied, maybe her mom ignorned it.."

maybe.. but and although i love to have theories and speculate, you need to have some base of truth and events to work with, because if you watch this segment of UM or read a website you dont like and then say "well all that didn't happen..."

then you could pretty much argue anything.

Her missing poster mentions she had flip flops. https://www.missingkids.org/poster/NCMC/1180588/1

In addition to the calls to the aunt, she also called her friend Ron Abeles and I believe a third party who hasn't been identified.

Again, her argument with Keith Roberts was over wanting to borrow $300 and to be driven to a friend's place in Ft Lauderdale. This coupled with the fact that nothing says she tried to call her mother, I think she really intended to run away because of problems in her home. Both Roberts and Abeles had indicated Linda was very aggressive with Tammy's pageants and acting career and there was much tension there.
https://morbidology.com/the-missing-...-lynn-leppert/

[bigted12]

Originally Posted by blacksymbiote

Her missing poster mentions she had flip flops. https://www.missingkids.org/poster/NCMC/1180588/1

In addition to the calls to the aunt, she also called her friend Ron Abeles and I believe a third party who hasn't been identified.

Again, her argument with Keith Roberts was over wanting to borrow $300 and to be driven to a friend's place in Ft Lauderdale. This coupled with the fact that nothing says she tried to call her mother, I think she really intended to run away because of problems in her home. Both Roberts and Abeles had indicated Linda was very aggressive with Tammy's pageants and acting career and there was much tension there.
https://morbidology.com/the-missing-...-lynn-leppert/

Maybe, The thing is, you and i have no personal relation to this case, we don't know tammy and we don't know the family and we weren't there.

So we have to base our theories on what we've read online or this segment of unsolved mysteries. so one thing tells us that tammy didn't have shoes on, i mean if you search "tammy lynn leppert shoeless" you can find news outlets and websites theres 1000s of websites that say she didn't have shoes on...

https://doenetwork.org/cases/211dffl.html

https://charleyproject.org/case/tammy-lynn-leppert

so one person will say she was barefoot if it fits their theory and another will say she wasn't if it fits theirs... and lets be honest, how would we really know for sure?

If theres enough websites and the charleyproject saying it, then theres enough of a DOUBT... because you don't just pick "she was shoeless" out of thin air right?

but in someways it doesn't even matter, the big question is, if before she went to that party and away for the weekend she was 100% fine and normal and then when she came home she started acting like she did. because mental illness doesn't appear one weekend like a case of covid... it just doesnt...

Thats what we need to establish, i don't doubt she had a pushy mother, but would that make her have that freak out on the set of scarface? would that make her believe a van was outside with tinted glass watching her? because of a pushy mother? the answer is no.

and while it's tempting to say "maybe the mother was lying, maybe wing was lying..." it just gets silly if we call BS on every part of this and then invent our own version of it. i could easily say that the phone calls she made to her aunt "were from a payphine o'hare airport in chicago and she fled to france"

if we're denying everything we're told and inventing whatever we like, then whats the difference?

[tvscript124]

Originally Posted by bigted12

Maybe, The thing is, you and i have no personal relation to this case, we don't know tammy and we don't know the family and we weren't there.

So we have to base our theories on what we've read online or this segment of unsolved mysteries. so one thing tells us that tammy didn't have shoes on, i mean if you search "tammy lynn leppert shoeless" you can find news outlets and websites theres 1000s of websites that say she didn't have shoes on...

https://doenetwork.org/cases/211dffl.html

https://charleyproject.org/case/tammy-lynn-leppert

so one person will say she was barefoot if it fits their theory and another will say she wasn't if it fits theirs... and lets be honest, how would we really know for sure?

If theres enough websites and the charleyproject saying it, then theres enough of a DOUBT... because you don't just pick "she was shoeless" out of thin air right?

but in someways it doesn't even matter, the big question is, if before she went to that party and away for the weekend she was 100% fine and normal and then when she came home she started acting like she did. because mental illness doesn't appear one weekend like a case of covid... it just doesnt...

Thats what we need to establish, i don't doubt she had a pushy mother, but would that make her have that freak out on the set of scarface? would that make her believe a van was outside with tinted glass watching her? because of a pushy mother? the answer is no.

and while it's tempting to say "maybe the mother was lying, maybe wing was lying..." it just gets silly if we call BS on every part of this and then invent our own version of it. i could easily say that the phone calls she made to her aunt "were from a payphine o'hare airport in chicago and she fled to france"

if we're denying everything we're told and inventing whatever we like, then whats the difference?

According to one of the links: "Leppert also confided in her friend, Rick Adams, that she believed somebody was going to kill her. 'I knew it wasn’t drugs. I can say for sure that Tammy wasn’t into drugs. She didn’t even drink,' he recalled."

Now, two things can be true at once. She may not have been taking drugs or on drugs pre-party. BUT it is so easy to slip something into someone's drink. And this was a wild party in the 1980s--I doubt there was as much awareness around "don't leave your drink unattended, don't accept a drink from someone, especially someone you don't know." Today you have young people taking pills that they don't know are laced with Fentanyl. So the theory that she took a drug at the party is valid. And it would probably have been out of her system when she was hospitalized.

So, I guess the logical assumption is that after becoming increasingly paranoid, she argued with her friend who dropped her off, walked off barefoot, and met up with unsavory characters?

[bigted12]

Originally Posted by tvscript124

According to one of the links: "Leppert also confided in her friend, Rick Adams, that she believed somebody was going to kill her. 'I knew it wasn’t drugs. I can say for sure that Tammy wasn’t into drugs. She didn’t even drink,' he recalled."

Now, two things can be true at once. She may not have been taking drugs or on drugs pre-party. BUT it is so easy to slip something into someone's drink. And this was a wild party in the 1980s--I doubt there was as much awareness around "don't leave your drink unattended, don't accept a drink from someone, especially someone you don't know." Today you have young people taking pills that they don't know are laced with Fentanyl. So the theory that she took a drug at the party is valid. And it would probably have been out of her system when she was hospitalized.

So, I guess the logical assumption is that after becoming increasingly paranoid, she argued with her friend who dropped her off, walked off barefoot, and met up with unsavory characters?

What makes me believe that drugs lead to her paranoia or whatever you want to call it, is how we're told that for 18 years tammy was fine, normal, happy and without problems and then returns home from a party acting the way she did.

Common sense tells us that mental illness doesn't appear overnight right? it's not like flicking a switch.... unless some drug maybe LSD messed with her brain chemstry so much that she did a complete 180..

and there are many stories of that from the 1970s and 80s, peter green from fleetwood mac took one hit of LSD and was never the same again, he became mentally ill.

We don't have any reason to believe that tammy was a drug addict, but a hollywood party in the 1980s? i mean what was the movie scarface all about?! DRUGS!

someone could have slipped it into her drink, or she could have simply thought "i'll try it once" and that was the first and only time ending with lethal consequences... it happens a lot. it happens daily!

Tammys behaviour wasn't the product of a pushy mom, that wouldn't cause her to act like the way we're told, that wouldn't have her thinking someone was outside in a van watching her.

Wing said she came back from the party a different person....and i actually believe him, and although it's easy to say that the mom lied, wing lied...if we call everyone liars, even UM for overdramitizing the segment, then we can essentially rewrite all this to fit OUR narrative. if everyone in involved is lying i could claim anything and everything.

So the party is key! what happened there? and only one thing can make a person go from fine to mentally unwell within 24 hours... drugs.

[tvscript124]

Originally Posted by bigted12

What makes me believe that drugs lead to her paranoia or whatever you want to call it, is how we're told that for 18 years tammy was fine, normal, happy and without problems and then returns home from a party acting the way she did.

Common sense tells us that mental illness doesn't appear overnight right? it's not like flicking a switch.... unless some drug maybe LSD messed with her brain chemstry so much that she did a complete 180..

and there are many stories of that from the 1970s and 80s, peter green from fleetwood mac took one hit of LSD and was never the same again, he became mentally ill.

We don't have any reason to believe that tammy was a drug addict, but a hollywood party in the 1980s? i mean what was the movie scarface all about?! DRUGS!

someone could have slipped it into her drink, or she could have simply thought "i'll try it once" and that was the first and only time ending with lethal consequences... it happens a lot. it happens daily!

Tammys behaviour wasn't the product of a pushy mom, that wouldn't cause her to act like the way we're told, that wouldn't have her thinking someone was outside in a van watching her.

Wing said she came back from the party a different person....and i actually believe him, and although it's easy to say that the mom lied, wing lied...if we call everyone liars, even UM for overdramitizing the segment, then we can essentially rewrite all this to fit OUR narrative. if everyone in involved is lying i could claim anything and everything.

So the party is key! what happened there? and only one thing can make a person go from fine to mentally unwell within 24 hours... drugs.

Which is why I don't understand one thing. Several people on this thread have pointed out one flaw in the investigation: why wouldn't LE and/or the family investigate what happened at that party? If that's when your loved one just completely flipped out, wouldn't you ask who was at that party, what happened, who she interacted with, what she had to eat and drink, and most of all, whether she took anything? None of this was ever mentioned in the segment or the articles.

[bigted12]

Originally Posted by tvscript124

Which is why I don't understand one thing. Several people on this thread have pointed out one flaw in the investigation: why wouldn't LE and/or the family investigate what happened at that party? If that's when your loved one just completely flipped out, wouldn't you ask who was at that party, what happened, who she interacted with, what she had to eat and drink, and most of all, whether she took anything? None of this was ever mentioned in the segment or the articles.

Let's assume i'm right and one way or another she took LSD or something similar, it messed with her brain chemstry and her made her paranoid, well if she took something on the friday or saturday, then came home on the monday, then after 2 or 3 days or tammy acting strange they took her to the doctor, thats 5 days, so...

1. the drugs are out of her system

2. i don't believe they'd say "take a drugs test" to her anyway

and 3. would a drug test in 1983 be advanced enough to detect a drug like that?


when it comes to linking her sudden radical change in behavior to the party, although it's obvious, it's not an exact science right?

the drugs are never going to be in her system, even if they were, could they find them?

It would have been a little bizarre for the cops to think "well she believes that someone is spying on her in a van and she's just smashed the window with the baseball bat... so it must be that party"

i think that 50-60 years of these drugs have given us some perspective and evidence of how they can affect people mentally, that maybe we didn't have in 1983...

even if the police did suspect the party was the root of the cause, what would they do? knock on peoples door and say "tammy is smashing windows with a baseball bat, we think it's because of the party a month ago.."

that wouldn't happen.

To answer your last question, we don't know how coherente she was, if her mother or wing would have asked her those questions, if she took drugs, what did she eat, who she was with... would she have either wanted or been able to answer?

if she did chose to take LSD and she wasnt spiked... i mean how many 18 year old kids would say "sure mom, i popped LSD.." !?!

[Dogface82]

Originally Posted by bigted12

Let's assume i'm right and one way or another she took LSD or something similar, it messed with her brain chemstry and her made her paranoid, well if she took something on the friday or saturday, then came home on the monday, then after 2 or 3 days or tammy acting strange they took her to the doctor, thats 5 days, so...

1. the drugs are out of her system

2. i don't believe they'd say "take a drugs test" to her anyway

and 3. would a drug test in 1983 be advanced enough to detect a drug like that?


when it comes to linking her sudden radical change in behavior to the party, although it's obvious, it's not an exact science right?

the drugs are never going to be in her system, even if they were, could they find them?

It would have been a little bizarre for the cops to think "well she believes that someone is spying on her in a van and she's just smashed the window with the baseball bat... so it must be that party"

i think that 50-60 years of these drugs have given us some perspective and evidence of how they can affect people mentally, that maybe we didn't have in 1983...

even if the police did suspect the party was the root of the cause, what would they do? knock on peoples door and say "tammy is smashing windows with a baseball bat, we think it's because of the party a month ago.."

that wouldn't happen.

To answer your last question, we don't know how coherente she was, if her mother or wing would have asked her those questions, if she took drugs, what did she eat, who she was with... would she have either wanted or been able to answer?

if she did chose to take LSD and she wasnt spiked... i mean how many 18 year old kids would say "sure mom, i popped LSD.." !?!

To my dismay and disgust I was roped into random testing for drug use. This was in 1986. At the time we were taught the proper procedures. I was surprised to find out LSD was not tested for in any of the standard tests. I don't think ketamine was tested for either.

1) The tests for LSD were expensive.
2) They had to be done quickly. LSD is metabolised into elements commonly found in the
body.
3) New incapacitating (daterape) drugs are constantly being developed so there is a lag
before a test is developed and adopted.
4) She was vulnerable she may have been spiked and sexually assaulted. Nothing new in
Hollywood.
5) Some of these drugs have an amnesia effect. The specific memory loss varies.
6) Any of these things singly or in combination could have caused the change.

[blacksymbiote]

Originally Posted by bigted12

Maybe, The thing is, you and i have no personal relation to this case, we don't know tammy and we don't know the family and we weren't there.

So we have to base our theories on what we've read online or this segment of unsolved mysteries. so one thing tells us that tammy didn't have shoes on, i mean if you search "tammy lynn leppert shoeless" you can find news outlets and websites theres 1000s of websites that say she didn't have shoes on...

https://doenetwork.org/cases/211dffl.html

https://charleyproject.org/case/tammy-lynn-leppert

so one person will say she was barefoot if it fits their theory and another will say she wasn't if it fits theirs... and lets be honest, how would we really know for sure?

If theres enough websites and the charleyproject saying it, then theres enough of a DOUBT... because you don't just pick "she was shoeless" out of thin air right?

but in someways it doesn't even matter, the big question is, if before she went to that party and away for the weekend she was 100% fine and normal and then when she came home she started acting like she did. because mental illness doesn't appear one weekend like a case of covid... it just doesnt...

Thats what we need to establish, i don't doubt she had a pushy mother, but would that make her have that freak out on the set of scarface? would that make her believe a van was outside with tinted glass watching her? because of a pushy mother? the answer is no.

and while it's tempting to say "maybe the mother was lying, maybe wing was lying..." it just gets silly if we call BS on every part of this and then invent our own version of it. i could easily say that the phone calls she made to her aunt "were from a payphine o'hare airport in chicago and she fled to france"

if we're denying everything we're told and inventing whatever we like, then whats the difference?

Curtis was more than a pushy mother by all accounts. Tammy was reportedly her sole source of income at the time Tammy vanished. Some think the suit against Wilder was a means to get some money seeing as how she dropped it saying she never actually believed he was involved. Quite odd isn't it? The fact is also that Tammy told Adams she "might be going away for a while" and then disappears. Roberts says he offered to take her back home, but she refused and told him to let her out. So we have to wonder why is she so eager to get away from home? This has the most information I've seen on the case: https://medium.com/@crimeblogger1983...t-243d3a6658b5

[bigted12]

Originally Posted by blacksymbiote

Curtis was more than a pushy mother by all accounts. Tammy was reportedly her sole source of income at the time Tammy vanished. Some think the suit against Wilder was a means to get some money seeing as how she dropped it saying she never actually believed he was involved. Quite odd isn't it? The fact is also that Tammy told Adams she "might be going away for a while" and then disappears. Roberts says he offered to take her back home, but she refused and told him to let her out. So we have to wonder why is she so eager to get away from home? This has the most information I've seen on the case: https://medium.com/@crimeblogger1983...t-243d3a6658b5

You seem to be ignoring the 1001 things that don't back up what you say, while stating a couple things that do..

If tammy decided to disappear, she would have taken some clothes and gone, when you decide to leave, you don't get in a car with somebody, get into an argument, maybe be shoeless and then run and make half a dozen "frantic" calls and say "i know, let's go away"

it doesn't happen like that. i mean in someways i don't even know what you're getting at, are you saying that the mother pushed her so much that she had some kind of breakdown and then ran away?

How would that make tammy believe someone was outside in a van watching her? if you then suggest that wing was lying, then again, it's pretty much rewriting the whole story to fit your theory.

We have no personal link to this family, and while i'm open to the idea that the mom was the typical pushy demanding mother of a beauty queen, having her go to pageants every week and balancing books on her head... she took part in the UM segment, took tammy to the doctor when she was acting strange and generally seemed pretty open and honest.

But no matter how pushy the mother was, it doesn't explain tammys bizarre behaviour, how she believed her food was poisioned, the paranoia with the van outside watching her, the "freak out" on set, the possible irrational argument, running off shoeless and making frantic calls and going missing for 42 years... how is that the mother?

Tammy was 18, an adult with a career that yeah wasn't exactly sharon stone... but she had enough going for her to leave home, find an apartment all done in a sane and safe way...

her bizarre paranoid behaviour was much much much more than a pushy mother and the 180 "light switch" her mental illness took is proof of that..

unless you're saying everyone is lying...