Season 12 Credits only

[Tankeryanker]

Robbie, Chip and Polly mostly have credit only by their names for season 12.

Why give an actor credit only if they were not in the show?

I noticed that Chip and Polly were shown a lot in 11 and then poof, gone in 12. Any idea why? I get why Robbie was gone, but I'm not sure about Chip and Polly.


Also, would you rather have Carol and Mike or Steve and Barbara as your parents?

[biffbronson]

The opening you're seeing for Season 12 episodes, which includes Don Grady, is not the original. We've wanted to see the "real thing" for many years now. Don we're certain was not listed in the correct original credits. And as you mentioned, the Chip & Polly characters were in large part absent from S12, so we'd like to see how the actual credits looked.

SteveA I'm certain can explain better, but for whatever reasons the wrong opening credits from a previous season have been spliced onto the syndication prints of Season 12 - so Robbie is on there despite Don having left the series. And other anomalies due to the lack of the original credits.

I'll try to find the explanation Stan Livingston gave regarding the lesser use of Chip & Polly in S12, but here's the gist of it: Stan informed the producers he would be doing other projects, so the writers wrote lots of scripts without Chip & Polly, focusing on the other characters, in anticipation of Stan's absence. He later learned that Don Grady would not appear at all in S12, so he was then more amenable to making more appearances -- but as I stated, scripts were prepared in anticipation of Stan's absence.

EDIT: I found the pertinent explanation I wrote, in response to an unfair online attack on the M3S producers for "dropping" Chip from the final season -- which was not the case. Here we go:

"Stanley has given the reasons for his reduced role in S12 in an interview. First, he was considering taking a role offered to him on The Virginian. Since the M3S producers were aware there was a chance Stan would not return for S12 of the series, they had the writers concentrate on writing shows that focused on some of the other characters THEY WERE CERTAIN would be back: Dodie, Barbara, Katie, Ernie...
Second: However, since Stan found out that Don Grady would not be back as Rob, that factored into his decision to return to M3S for S12, as he wanted to help keep M3S afloat. This came AFTERWARD.

In other words, show episodes were written centered on the other characters with the possibility in mind that Stan would not be returning. He did return, but the scripts were done.

So once again, M3S's producers have been unfairly attacked for their handling, when in reality they did their best under the circumstances. There were lots of new characters, including the triplets, so Stan also pointed out that due to that fact it was also natural that episodes would be written to spread the focus around."

[stevea]

This is allegedly the original season 12 opener:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbuJEHoIAhU

It checks most boxes, but mis-spells Dawn Lyn's last name. It appears real, since there's a TV station ID which flashes briefly on the screen (from Australia, I think.)

Biff is right--I grouse regularly about the mess that the season 12 masters are in (really, to no avail). In no other season reruns are the regular cast cut out of the closing credits--but in season 12 they are, in every episode. Many episodes are badly edited, and even episodes that appear complete probably have edits . In some instances I and another fan have constructed more complete episodes from various sources (Odyssey, Hallmark, MeTV, Amazon Prime).

Season 12 (along with the second half of season 11) was never remastered to videotape like the regularly syndicated color seasons were. When the regularly-syndicated were done, the 35mm high-quality network masters were used. Since this was never done for season 12 (and, again, for the last half of season 11) lower quality 16mm dubs are the source for what we see today.

Although I really like all of George Tibbles' season-opening story arcs, lower on my list is the season 12 opening arc--the Fergus episodes. If I could ever see the episodes complete, and not chopped up to bits, I think I would enjoy them more. These four episodes, and a handful of others from season 12, are a chopped up mess.

To end on a positive note, it appears that the first half of season 11 was totally remastered and these now (or did) look beautiful on Amazon Prime. Complete and unedited, these were missing from syndication for many years, as they were removed from the package around the end of the 1990s.

[stevea]

Originally Posted by Tankeryanker

Robbie, Chip and Polly mostly have credit only by their names for season 12.

Why give an actor credit only if they were not in the show?

I noticed that Chip and Polly were shown a lot in 11 and then poof, gone in 12. Any idea why? I get why Robbie was gone, but I'm not sure about Chip and Polly.


Also, would you rather have Carol and Mike or Steve and Barbara as your parents?

Steve and Barbara. I really like Beverly Garland.

[biffbronson]

Thank you. I neglected to look into that earlier, I'm glad it's available.

It's always interesting when a production misspells one of their own person's or property's names. For example, currently some of the Dr. Seuss bios printed by Random House misspell his Rosetta Stone pseudonym as "Roseta." So it does happen.

Apparently M3S was popular in Australia, the online synopsis and other episode information at the old TV.com site was written by an Australian fan (who used terms like "whilst" that Americans don't).

[stevea]

Originally Posted by biffbronson

Thank you. I neglected to look into that earlier, I'm glad it's available.

It's always interesting when a production misspells one of their own person's or property's names. For example, currently some of the Dr. Seuss bios printed by Random House misspell his Rosetta Stone pseudonym as "Roseta." So it does happen.

Apparently M3S was popular in Australia, the online synopsis and other episode information at the old TV.com site was written by an Australian fan (who used terms like "whilst" that Americans don't).

I think that came from a Facebook fan in Australia. He posted (on Facebook, I think) a missing part of a scene from the Sal Mineo season 11 episode (another one that's a chopped up mess).

Interestingly, for the episode previous to that one, ("St. Louis Blues") I was able to construct a complete episode. I think Nick at Nite helped with that one.

Nick at Nite is another valuable resource for those later seasons. Back in the 1980s they showed mostly-unedited episodes from those years. It's a problem finding anyone who actually has VHS tapes from back then, though.

[biffbronson]

I think I first saw the Season 12 M3S episodes, along with the latter part of Season 11, on the Hallmark Channel circa 2000. I had a VCR but didn't record much of anything.

As far as Nick at Nite, I recall watching circa 1990 the b & w seasons of My Three Sons along with The Donna Reed Show, and I think Dobie Gillis at that time as well.

That's interesting regarding putting together complete episodes from more than one source. I regard the S11 Sal Mineo episode as fairly memorable. It was a pretty common theme for characters ostensibly from the Douglas Family's past to return.

Anyway, Steve & Barbara for parents -- another Beverly Garland fan checking in.

[Tankeryanker]

Originally Posted by stevea

Steve and Barbara. I really like Beverly Garland.

Both were knock out blondes, but the character of Barbara was so much more grounded compared to Carol. "I don't have to be logical, I am a mother" really makes my eyes roll.

I was going to complain about Carol having Alice, but Barbara had Charlie and later, Katie to help out.

But neither of them did well raising the youngest girl in the house. Cindy and Dodie are awful little snots.

[stevea]

Dodie takes a lot of grief from fans. I'd have liked to hear Steve say, "Quit the whining, Dodie!"

[stevea]

Originally Posted by biffbronson

I think I first saw the Season 12 M3S episodes, along with the latter part of Season 11, on the Hallmark Channel circa 2000. I had a VCR but didn't record much of anything.

As far as Nick at Nite, I recall watching circa 1990 the b & w seasons of My Three Sons along with The Donna Reed Show, and I think Dobie Gillis at that time as well.

That's interesting regarding putting together complete episodes from more than one source. I regard the S11 Sal Mineo episode as fairly memorable. It was a pretty common theme for characters ostensibly from the Douglas Family's past to return.

Anyway, Steve & Barbara for parents -- another Beverly Garland fan checking in.

Yes, we'd never seen any of them, except the Wongs (but even with them, I don't think we'd seen the girl Ernie's age.)

Then there was Sylvia (Jane Wyman). Stanley Livingston did a little over-acting when he saw her.

As for the Liberty Bell/Sal Mineo episode, that's another one I'd like to see unedited.

[biffbronson]

Remember the episode as well where the woman knew Steve well from their past, but for the life of him he has no idea who she is. The "Paddlin' Madelyn Home" episode.

At least 3 of Charley's old mates visit: one played by James Gregory, one who's become a famous actor, and one who vies for his girlfriend. All making their first & only appearances.

In Season 10 we have Yale Summers as Rob's friend from back in Bryant Park, yet we never saw him as that character before.

The visits from old friends extended to so many of the regulars, for example Barbara's old flame played by Craig Stevens who keeps calling her "Bobbie" (and Katie has the hots for).

[stevea]

Originally Posted by biffbronson

Remember the episode as well where the woman knew Steve well from their past, but for the life of him he has no idea who she is. The "Paddlin' Madelyn Home" episode.

At least 3 of Charley's old mates visit: one played by James Gregory, one who's become a famous actor, and one who vies for his girlfriend. All making their first & only appearances.

In Season 10 we have Yale Summers as Rob's friend from back in Bryant Park, yet we never saw him as that character before.

The visits from old friends extended to so many of the regulars, for example Barbara's old flame played by Craig Stevens who keeps calling her "Bobbie" (and Katie has the hots for).

The woman who kept calling Steve "Stevie." Being polite, I'll just say I'd put that low on an episode-ranking list.

Much higher on that list is Barbara's deceased husband's father (played by Lew Ayres) showing up. One of the best Dodie episodes.