T.K. Harty/John Mooney on City Confidential - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

wiseguy182 · 11-14-2014, 01:44 AM

Wow, just wow. This case, of course, was on UM and also on City Confidential (an episode called "Athens: Showdown at the Station) and is one of a handful of episodes that haven't been rerun on t.v. for years, so I finally broke down and ordered a copy through Amazon as I was really interested in seeing it. I was pretty stunned about a lot of things that were mentioned on the episode.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe John Mooney did partake in his murder, and he and Elmo Florence deserved every bit of their life sentences. T.K. Harty didn't deserve to die. But there were several things mentioned in the episode that I was unaware of that made Harty out to be, well, a jerk.

Here's a list of some of the most eye-popping moments. I don't think any of this was mentioned on UM, but perhaps one or a few items were:

-John Mooney wasn't the only one irate about Harty flying north to talk to the owners of the station and get Mooney evicted. One of the co-owners was very furious about it and confronted Harty at the station one day. It sounded like the co-owner was about to sell his share of the business anyways and was surprised that Harty couldn't wait a few months.

-Harty served Mooney his eviction papers on the same day Mooney's father died. I thought that was particularly cruel. Mooney had planned to fight his eviction legally, but his efforts were hampered by also having to deal with his father's affairs, which took up most of his time.

-The episode stated that business at the Station was booming and everyone was making plenty of money, so there was really no need for Harty and Mooney to have such a heated feud. Mooney had carved out a niche for himself in the market by serving thick-crust pizza, which had been previously unavailable in the area. The feud had started when both of them lit the other's patio on fire. Truthfully, I think both Mooney and Harty are to blame here as their feud was really quite childish and not something that was expected out of adult businessmen.

-Mooney was interviewed for the episode. Not to just to offer his side of the story, but his input on what kind of town Athens was like. This is the only episode of the series that I can recall where the presumed guilty party speaks in the opening sequence about the city. To his credit, Mooney was very well-spoken and didn't come across as objectionable at all, especially when talking about his father's death and how it affected him.

-Mooney had a large following in Athens for some time after his conviction that believed in his innocence. I feel I should point out Mooney had never committed a crime previous, and didn't commit any crimes during his near-decade on the run. He was living a quiet life with a wife and son and was working as an accountant. He actually watched the UM segment on himself. I should also point out that Mooney had been hiding in Germany for years and was unlikely to be found, he voluntarily came back to Athens where he knew he would be arrested immediately, and he was. I think he, in a way, surrendered voluntarily.

-one area from the episode which differs greatly from the UM piece was how Mooney escaped from prison. The UM segment depicted Mooney hiding in a trash can and making his escape after other workers had left it outside. The City Confidential episode said that Mooney was able to escape very easily as it was a low-security prison. He was on trash detail and simply took the trash out and didn't come back.

Summing it up, while I still think Mooney arranging Harty's murder was deplorable, I don't hate him as much as I used to and I can't help but think that many of Harty's actions were reprehensible. I also think Harty was perhaps somewhat ignorant of how to conduct business in the South.

dynoguy88 · 11-14-2014, 12:28 PM

How about Elmo Florence telling the restaurant owner that he was the killer and basically advertising himself as a hit-man? Did anyone comment on how he had to be the stupidest hit-man who ever lived?

wiseguy182 · 11-14-2014, 01:48 PM

some more stuff:

Elmo Florence came off as a real creep in the episode. After offing Harty, Elmo Florence tried to contract more business as a hit man, going around telling people he was from New Jersey and that he could do a "good, clean job". He was so creepy that Mooney himself said that Elmo would have offed him if somebody had approached him about it and he feared for his life.

Unsolved Mysteries was mentioned as being instrumental in Mooney's capture.

More than one person interviewed for the segment referred to Harty as being "painfully blunt."

T.K. Harty's saloon had an eclectic mix of clientele, it wasn't uncommon for students to bring their professors there. A mix of younger and older people which normally wouldn't be a big deal, but was in Athens as some older people didn't like to go downtown as it wasn't uncommon to see kids with blue hair, alternative fashions, etc.

And some more stuff I found on the net:

Elmo was paroled in late 2007 at the age of 76

The tip that solved the case (after the UM broadcast) was the 435th one that came in.

Mooney had a car waiting for him after his escape.

Mooney had a sign made out of naked women spelling out "Somebody's Pizza" to attract business.

The old Station is now home to the Council on Aging.

MegtheEgg86 · 04-27-2015, 12:05 AM

Also had the opportunity to see this one over the weekend.

-I agree Harty was presented as kind of a raging jerk. The gentleman that owned the Station property that was interviewed in the UM segment was also interviewed in this CC episode. What struck me about it was that he seemed less gracious to Harty in the latter interview. Apparently after T.K. flew to New York for that private meeting (of which no one else was aware) to gain control of the property, the two had a pretty heated confrontation.

-We actually get to see photos of T.K., which we didn't get to do on the UM segment.

-John Mooney, as wiseguy mentioned, is interviewed. He was not at all what I expected--not at all the "preppy cool guy". He was rather soft-spoken, almost meek in demeanor. His eye contact wasn't even great with the interviewer. But he never did admit to hiring Florence to kill Harty, and seemed to imply Florence acted alone (which is simultaneously hilarious and pathetic). He describes watching his own UM segment air. Apparently his wife was in another room changing their baby's diaper, and he kept nervously calling out asking if she needed any help to ensure she was in fact back with the baby and not walking into a room with Mooney's face plastered all over the TV. He said he continued on with the evening as usual after the segment ended.

He was arrested several weeks later.

-I read an article online last night that stated Mooney was enrolled at Arizona State just two years after his disappearance. I think he did complete a degree there as well.

wiseguy182 · 04-27-2015, 01:18 AM

That episode had some of the greatest lines ever.

Some crazy local talking about Athens being the center of the universe. "Athens is such a center of the universe that, for it to be otherwise would be like God pulling the stopper out of the Earth's bathtub. Sssssssslurp."

Paul Winfield: "Well....maybe."

And then we get some shots of some guy in a gorilla costume playing alternative rock music. "With such a...'wealth' of talent...."

I'm currently re-watching another Georgia episode, "Macon: A Spoonful of Arsenic in which one of the city's most popular residents, Anjette Lyle - a successful restaurateur, poisoned 4 loved ones including 2 young husbands and one of her own daughters! They had died slow, agonizing deaths. She was a real crazy woman, but had her share of supporters.

rysmytsharp · 04-27-2015, 05:40 PM

I've been wanting to see this episode for a long time as I've always enjoyed this UM segment. Anyone have access to it or know how I can watch it please pm me.

WishfulDreamer · 04-27-2015, 10:15 PM

Did T.K. Harty know that John Mooney's father had died when he served the eviction notice? If he did, that is pretty callous.

Of course, the murder is still horrible and inexcusable. I'm just curious to know if T.K. was aware.

MegtheEgg86 · 04-28-2015, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WishfulDreamer

Did T.K. Harty know that John Mooney's father had died when he served the eviction notice? If he did, that is pretty callous.

Of course, the murder is still horrible and inexcusable. I'm just curious to know if T.K. was aware.

Yes, it seems he did know. I have to wonder if that wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, with Mooney coming to the decision to have Harty killed.

Mooney himself makes some interesting observations about the rivalry. Re: the $0.05 beer ordeal--Mooney was apparently good buddies with a Budweiser distributor and was selling that product during happy hours while Harty sold PBR. So technically, argues Mooney, he wasn't exactly undercutting T.K. as he wasn't selling the same product (an argument of which I personally can see both sides, but if that diddly bopping over to T.K.'s to pass out fliers story is true, I can see why Harty would be so angry).

I did feel sympathy for Mooney when he spoke about losing his father. On top of being kicked off his business's property, he had to shuttle back and forth between Athens and his family in Dayton, OH to take care of his father's arrangements. And I'm sure Harty was not especially sympathetic throughout the whole ordeal.

Again, though, you have to just shake your head at Mooney for some of those "self-incriminating" notes, from which Harry Gordon (one of my UM faves) read excerpts. One we didn't hear in the segment was "Let Elmo get tried first", so that Mooney, as he went on to explain, could optimally tailor his defense based on Florence's testimony. I personally think Mooney thought Florence was stupid enough to be set up to go down for the whole thing from the get-go, but Mooney wasn't even clever enough to consider what would happen if Florence started running his mouth--which he did in short order, no less. And I guess in the end, Florence got the last laugh--he's been out of jail for almost 8 years now (if he's even still alive), which has pretty publicly incensed Harry Gordon. I can see why--Florence was a felon even before committing the Harty murder, and by all accounts an all-around trouble maker. Hell, he's even threatened to kill Mooney in the past.

11-14-2014, 01:44 AM	#1
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	T.K. Harty/John Mooney on City Confidential Wow, just wow. This case, of course, was on UM and also on City Confidential (an episode called "Athens: Showdown at the Station) and is one of a handful of episodes that haven't been rerun on t.v. for years, so I finally broke down and ordered a copy through Amazon as I was really interested in seeing it. I was pretty stunned about a lot of things that were mentioned on the episode. Now don't get me wrong, I believe John Mooney did partake in his murder, and he and Elmo Florence deserved every bit of their life sentences. T.K. Harty didn't deserve to die. But there were several things mentioned in the episode that I was unaware of that made Harty out to be, well, a jerk. Here's a list of some of the most eye-popping moments. I don't think any of this was mentioned on UM, but perhaps one or a few items were: -John Mooney wasn't the only one irate about Harty flying north to talk to the owners of the station and get Mooney evicted. One of the co-owners was very furious about it and confronted Harty at the station one day. It sounded like the co-owner was about to sell his share of the business anyways and was surprised that Harty couldn't wait a few months. -Harty served Mooney his eviction papers on the same day Mooney's father died. I thought that was particularly cruel. Mooney had planned to fight his eviction legally, but his efforts were hampered by also having to deal with his father's affairs, which took up most of his time. -The episode stated that business at the Station was booming and everyone was making plenty of money, so there was really no need for Harty and Mooney to have such a heated feud. Mooney had carved out a niche for himself in the market by serving thick-crust pizza, which had been previously unavailable in the area. The feud had started when both of them lit the other's patio on fire. Truthfully, I think both Mooney and Harty are to blame here as their feud was really quite childish and not something that was expected out of adult businessmen. -Mooney was interviewed for the episode. Not to just to offer his side of the story, but his input on what kind of town Athens was like. This is the only episode of the series that I can recall where the presumed guilty party speaks in the opening sequence about the city. To his credit, Mooney was very well-spoken and didn't come across as objectionable at all, especially when talking about his father's death and how it affected him. -Mooney had a large following in Athens for some time after his conviction that believed in his innocence. I feel I should point out Mooney had never committed a crime previous, and didn't commit any crimes during his near-decade on the run. He was living a quiet life with a wife and son and was working as an accountant. He actually watched the UM segment on himself. I should also point out that Mooney had been hiding in Germany for years and was unlikely to be found, he voluntarily came back to Athens where he knew he would be arrested immediately, and he was. I think he, in a way, surrendered voluntarily. -one area from the episode which differs greatly from the UM piece was how Mooney escaped from prison. The UM segment depicted Mooney hiding in a trash can and making his escape after other workers had left it outside. The City Confidential episode said that Mooney was able to escape very easily as it was a low-security prison. He was on trash detail and simply took the trash out and didn't come back. Summing it up, while I still think Mooney arranging Harty's murder was deplorable, I don't hate him as much as I used to and I can't help but think that many of Harty's actions were reprehensible. I also think Harty was perhaps somewhat ignorant of how to conduct business in the South.
	__________________ "Dottie had said, in the event I got transferred that she was not interested in going with me. I wasn't expecting her to go with me. And wouldn't have even wanted her to I guess."

04-27-2015, 12:05 AM	#4
MegtheEgg86 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Jun 19, 2008 Location: The Volunteer State Posts: 5,156	Also had the opportunity to see this one over the weekend. -I agree Harty was presented as kind of a raging jerk. The gentleman that owned the Station property that was interviewed in the UM segment was also interviewed in this CC episode. What struck me about it was that he seemed less gracious to Harty in the latter interview. Apparently after T.K. flew to New York for that private meeting (of which no one else was aware) to gain control of the property, the two had a pretty heated confrontation. -We actually get to see photos of T.K., which we didn't get to do on the UM segment. -John Mooney, as wiseguy mentioned, is interviewed. He was not at all what I expected--not at all the "preppy cool guy". He was rather soft-spoken, almost meek in demeanor. His eye contact wasn't even great with the interviewer. But he never did admit to hiring Florence to kill Harty, and seemed to imply Florence acted alone (which is simultaneously hilarious and pathetic). He describes watching his own UM segment air. Apparently his wife was in another room changing their baby's diaper, and he kept nervously calling out asking if she needed any help to ensure she was in fact back with the baby and not walking into a room with Mooney's face plastered all over the TV. He said he continued on with the evening as usual after the segment ended. He was arrested several weeks later. -I read an article online last night that stated Mooney was enrolled at Arizona State just two years after his disappearance. I think he did complete a degree there as well.
	__________________ "Why is she lying?, it makes me wonder. What is she hiding?, it makes me wonder." Go Vols!

11-14-2014, 12:28 PM	#2
dynoguy88 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 01, 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 3,671	How about Elmo Florence telling the restaurant owner that he was the killer and basically advertising himself as a hit-man? Did anyone comment on how he had to be the stupidest hit-man who ever lived?

11-14-2014, 01:48 PM	#3
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	some more stuff: Elmo Florence came off as a real creep in the episode. After offing Harty, Elmo Florence tried to contract more business as a hit man, going around telling people he was from New Jersey and that he could do a "good, clean job". He was so creepy that Mooney himself said that Elmo would have offed him if somebody had approached him about it and he feared for his life. Unsolved Mysteries was mentioned as being instrumental in Mooney's capture. More than one person interviewed for the segment referred to Harty as being "painfully blunt." T.K. Harty's saloon had an eclectic mix of clientele, it wasn't uncommon for students to bring their professors there. A mix of younger and older people which normally wouldn't be a big deal, but was in Athens as some older people didn't like to go downtown as it wasn't uncommon to see kids with blue hair, alternative fashions, etc. And some more stuff I found on the net: Elmo was paroled in late 2007 at the age of 76 The tip that solved the case (after the UM broadcast) was the 435th one that came in. Mooney had a car waiting for him after his escape. Mooney had a sign made out of naked women spelling out "Somebody's Pizza" to attract business. The old Station is now home to the Council on Aging.

04-27-2015, 01:18 AM	#5
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	That episode had some of the greatest lines ever. Some crazy local talking about Athens being the center of the universe. "Athens is such a center of the universe that, for it to be otherwise would be like God pulling the stopper out of the Earth's bathtub. Sssssssslurp." Paul Winfield: "Well....maybe." And then we get some shots of some guy in a gorilla costume playing alternative rock music. "With such a...'wealth' of talent...." I'm currently re-watching another Georgia episode, "Macon: A Spoonful of Arsenic in which one of the city's most popular residents, Anjette Lyle - a successful restaurateur, poisoned 4 loved ones including 2 young husbands and one of her own daughters! They had died slow, agonizing deaths. She was a real crazy woman, but had her share of supporters.

04-27-2015, 05:40 PM	#6
rysmytsharp Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Aug 23, 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 41	I've been wanting to see this episode for a long time as I've always enjoyed this UM segment. Anyone have access to it or know how I can watch it please pm me.

04-27-2015, 10:15 PM	#7
WishfulDreamer Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 01, 2009 Location: L.A. Posts: 3,865	Did T.K. Harty know that John Mooney's father had died when he served the eviction notice? If he did, that is pretty callous. Of course, the murder is still horrible and inexcusable. I'm just curious to know if T.K. was aware.