Philip Fraser

[jets4life]

Originally Posted by rusty spike

Chances are the person who first dropped off the suspect may not have noticed anything unusual. Moreover, there may have been a long time between the incident and when the program first aired. Now this area in Canada is extremely remote so I wonder if Canadians even saw the original broadcasts. I would guess that the driver probably gave many rides to hitch-hikers.

The murder of Phillip Fraser was all over the news, so one would hope that the person who dropped the suspect off, would have put two and two together, and realised he had gave a lift to a murder suspect. The number of households with Televisions in the 80s was similar for Canada and the USA, so most people in the area would have heard of the Fraser murder in the summer of 1988. UM aired the case in 1991, but by then most people in Northern BC and Alaska were familiar with the case.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by Janel "Jaycee" Miller

I often wonder about the effort that was made to find the driver that dropped the suspect off at the cafe run by the two women. He or she may have information that would be helpful.

Very good question. I doubt anyone at the cafe even took notice to the person who dropped him off or the make/model of his vehicle. So you're basically hoping that the individual saw the UM segment or heard about the murder.

[Janel "Jaycee" Miller]

Originally Posted by Hambone2421

Very good question. I doubt anyone at the cafe even took notice to the person who dropped him off or the make/model of his vehicle. So you're basically hoping that the individual saw the UM segment or heard about the murder.

Whomever that other driver is, I liken him or her to the man who walked in on the I-70 killer when the latter man killed the two women who were bridal shop employees. That is, he or she is lucky to be alive.

[rusty spike]

Maybe I'm mixed up in the details, but I thought the hitch hiker (suspect) was dropped off by a motorist driving north. The suspect then entered the diner and then paid before going out to find Philip, who was parked on the side of the road (looking through his car). I looked for some notes to clarify which direction the motorist was originally driving, but didn't see any notes. I thought the re-enactment had the hitch hiker and vehicle going in the opposite direction, but the re enactment could be wrong.

Suppose my understanding is off and the motorist was heading south, why did the hitch hiker bail off a ride that was already going south? (assuming the original ride was going south to begin with). If traffic is sparse and people have misgivings about picking up strangers, sort of makes you wonder why ask to be let off if a ride is traveling the direction you want to go.

[Gelatinous Goo]

Originally Posted by rusty spike

Maybe I'm mixed up in the details, but I thought the hitch hiker (suspect) was dropped off by a motorist driving north. The suspect then entered the diner and then paid before going out to find Philip, who was parked on the side of the road (looking through his car). I looked for some notes to clarify which direction the motorist was originally driving, but didn't see any notes. I thought the re-enactment had the hitch hiker and vehicle going in the opposite direction, but the re enactment could be wrong.

Suppose my understanding is off and the motorist was heading south, why did the hitch hiker bail off a ride that was already going south? (assuming the original ride was going south to begin with). If traffic is sparse and people have misgivings about picking up strangers, sort of makes you wonder why ask to be let off if a ride is traveling the direction you want to go.

Why presume the murderer asked to be let off?! The guy probably creeped that first driver out and he was given the boot! Yeah, I'm making an assumption myself. Something tells me we will never know.

[rusty spike]

According to the article previously shared, the police investigated over 500 tips that had been generated from TV and the media.

[jets4life]

Originally Posted by rusty spike

According to the article previously shared, the police investigated over 500 tips that had been generated from TV and the media.

Considering UM has a history of glossing over facts in cases, to make it more appealing to viewers, I would love to get my hands on the actual RCMP file, regarding the Phillip Fraser case, and what significant leads they received.

It's so strange that the suspect seemingly vanished off the face of the earth. If I were the RCMP, I would have appealed to the individual who dropped him off at the diner. I also would have done due diligence to post composite sketches of the suspect all over the Prince George area, and the small towns off Highway 37, and along the Alaska Highway (the two highways merge just north of the BC-Yukon boundary, right up to Whitehorse and beyond.

There are hundreds of transient workers who are employed in mining in the Yukon and Northern BC. The suspect was described as "slow," had poor hygiene, and did not have a vehicle. He does not strike me as someone who could hold down a job in a skilled trade. Additionally, unless he is coming from Alaska, or came for the wilderness of the area (which is highly unlikely, since he did not even have a vehicle), makes me more inclined to believe that he may have sought work in the mines, only to leave prematurely.

[TheCars1986]

Here is a map showing Philip's journey from Anchorage to where his car ultimately ended up in Prince George. Taking into account that this hitchhiker did not harm the person who dropped him off at the 40 Mile Flat Cafe, something triggered him from the time he got with Philip to where Philip's body was found roughly 3 hours south from the cafe. So Philip was murdered not that long after picking up the hitchhiker. We know they conversed because the Olson's said the hitchhiker was giving them information under the pretense that he was Philip. But why kill him? If the hitchhiker wanted a ride south (in the direction he went in after dumping Philip's body), he had one with Philip alive...because Philip's ultimate destination was Seattle. I think Philip sensed something was off about this guy, and instead of heading south on his intended journey, he started to travel west back in the direction of Alaska, which would have sent him back through Canadian Border Services. Which is ultimately what I think set the hitchhiker off. The hitchhiker wanted to get out of Canada. Killing Philip and using his passport and identity could have accomplished this. He was on the run from something before he killed Philip, IMO.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Here is a map showing Philip's journey from Anchorage to where his car ultimately ended up in Prince George. Taking into account that this hitchhiker did not harm the person who dropped him off at the 40 Mile Flat Cafe, something triggered him from the time he got with Philip to where Philip's body was found roughly 3 hours south from the cafe. So Philip was murdered not that long after picking up the hitchhiker. We know they conversed because the Olson's said the hitchhiker was giving them information under the pretense that he was Philip. But why kill him? If the hitchhiker wanted a ride south (in the direction he went in after dumping Philip's body), he had one with Philip alive...because Philip's ultimate destination was Seattle. I think Philip sensed something was off about this guy, and instead of heading south on his intended journey, he started to travel west back in the direction of Alaska, which would have sent him back through Canadian Border Services. Which is ultimately what I think set the hitchhiker off. The hitchhiker wanted to get out of Canada. Killing Philip and using his passport and identity could have accomplished this. He was on the run from something before he killed Philip, IMO.

I think Phillip's murder was just a crime of opportunity, for the reasons you said. Getting his license and/or passport could have been the motive. Phillip was a smaller guy. The killer likely saw him as he pulled in and noticed he was alone and targeted him. In the reenactment, its implied that the killer originally asked him for a ride and Phillip declined. We have all asked this, but I wonder why Phillip didn't keep driving when the killer tried to get his attention again? I think the fact that he was able to get in the car may have had horrible consequences for Phillip. Meaning, the killer thought he was some sort of push over. I wonder if the driver who originally dropped him off was a bigger guy and maybe that's why he didn't try anything with him. As weird as this may sound, he may not have hurt the Olsen's because he was truly thankful for them stopping to help him out. He even offered to pay them.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Hambone2421

I think Phillip's murder was just a crime of opportunity, for the reasons you said. Getting his license and/or passport could have been the motive. Phillip was a smaller guy. The killer likely saw him as he pulled in and noticed he was alone and targeted him. In the reenactment, its implied that the killer originally asked him for a ride and Phillip declined. We have all asked this, but I wonder why Phillip didn't keep driving when the killer tried to get his attention again? I think the fact that he was able to get in the car may have had horrible consequences for Phillip. Meaning, the killer thought he was some sort of push over. I wonder if the driver who originally dropped him off was a bigger guy and maybe that's why he didn't try anything with him. As weird as this may sound, he may not have hurt the Olsen's because he was truly thankful for them stopping to help him out. He even offered to pay them.

I agree with you. I think it was more of a crime of opportunity. I think that Phillip was probably nervous (he didn't have his guns) and the hitchhiker picked up on it. The fact that the hitchhiker had told the Olson's true facts about Phillip such as his parent's occupations, and where he was going to college tells us that they probably had a pretty in-depth conversation. I wonder if Phillip mentioned at any point that his guns were confiscated and that's when he decided to attack? Without any defense, Phillip was an easy target for the hitchhiker.

But like you said, that initial pull-off probably pissed him off.

[Clockwork]

Here is a bizarre story that happened to me back in the summer about a hitchhiker. I am at a gas station in my neighborhood and I am paying for gas and a younger fella is standing behind me so I assume he is next in line and sort of get out of his way so he can pay. Instead he confronts me and asks if I can give him a lift somewhere. He has a clear bag with him, had some clothes in it and such. I said okay sure. The gas station attendant didn't like the guy so she told us to go outside if we wanted to talk. So we did. I asked him where he needed to go. He mentioned a city an hour away from where we were. I said I couldn't do that, it was in the evening, getting dark, and I had to work in the morning but that I could even take him to the bus depot about 5 minutes down the road. He then walked closer to me and said "Hey man, just give me a lift to (the name of the city)." I kept an eye on his hands and I am a big guy so I wasn't scared of him and didn't step back from him, which I think surprised him, and I stood my ground and said that this was all I could do for him. But if he wanted to I could call him a cab on my phone. So as I am dialing he does the same aggressive thing again, walks towards me and says "Hey man, just give me a lift to (the city)." I didn't, but I called him a cab and told him to wait there. Apparently what happened is that once the cab showed up (I was gone by then) he jetted as soon as the cabbie asked if he was the one who called.

Anyway, I am always open to helping someone in need if they need a lift. But the aggressive nature and demanding nature of the guy I dealt with, and the guy Philip dealt with, turn me off and pull up a red flag right away for me! I'd have gunned it if I was Philip and not let the guy in the car. Something is off when that happens.

[Clockwork]

Okay, so as for Philip's story, I have to wonder how the heck did they not track down the killer? The guy was sloppy, and I know he is probably just passing through so he isn't in the area again, but the guy left so many bread crumbs behind. For starters, you would think the guy that dropped him off at the cafe eventually hears about the story and realizes he was the one who had the killer sitting in his car. That could have been a key piece to everything. Why did he drop him off there for instance? What did they talk about?

For me I wish Philip had left the guy in the dust. He had witnesses at the cafe, so if there was a struggle he had people right there to call the police. But instead the guy gets into the car with him and they drive off and he's dead shortly after. I think at the beginning the conversation may have been turbulent. I can't imagine it being anything but awkward if a guy forcibly gets into your car at the beginning. Maybe the conversation smoothed over to the point that Philip told him both of his parents are doctors. I have always felt maybe this was something that triggered him to kill Philip. Maybe he figures he is well off and has a lot of money and it was just a crime of convenience for him.

But like I said, this guy was sloppy. He is showing his face all over the place. The guy the dropped him off, the cafe owners, the couple that literally let him sleep in their basement who I think have got to be the luckiest people on the planet because why on earth did he not kill them but kill Philip? Strange. The segments ends with him saying that he may be in Seattle or Toronto. Okay, I could see Seattle as he was trending that way, but what made the cops think it was Toronto? Also, the guy was 5'9" 220lbs or so. He'd stand out, he'd be stout and by the sounds of it he was unkept. I just don't see how a guy like that has the smarts to stay in hiding forever like that and not get caught.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Here is a bizarre story that happened to me back in the summer about a hitchhiker. I am at a gas station in my neighborhood and I am paying for gas and a younger fella is standing behind me so I assume he is next in line and sort of get out of his way so he can pay. Instead he confronts me and asks if I can give him a lift somewhere. He has a clear bag with him, had some clothes in it and such. I said okay sure. The gas station attendant didn't like the guy so she told us to go outside if we wanted to talk. So we did. I asked him where he needed to go. He mentioned a city an hour away from where we were. I said I couldn't do that, it was in the evening, getting dark, and I had to work in the morning but that I could even take him to the bus depot about 5 minutes down the road. He then walked closer to me and said "Hey man, just give me a lift to (the name of the city)." I kept an eye on his hands and I am a big guy so I wasn't scared of him and didn't step back from him, which I think surprised him, and I stood my ground and said that this was all I could do for him. But if he wanted to I could call him a cab on my phone. So as I am dialing he does the same aggressive thing again, walks towards me and says "Hey man, just give me a lift to (the city)." I didn't, but I called him a cab and told him to wait there. Apparently what happened is that once the cab showed up (I was gone by then) he jetted as soon as the cabbie asked if he was the one who called.

Anyway, I am always open to helping someone in need if they need a lift. But the aggressive nature and demanding nature of the guy I dealt with, and the guy Philip dealt with, turn me off and pull up a red flag right away for me! I'd have gunned it if I was Philip and not let the guy in the car. Something is off when that happens.

Whoa there big fella. I commend you for trying to help someone down on their luck, but it's crazy that you watch UM and you're still willing to give a hitchhiker a ride


I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but please be careful. When you said he got aggressive and demanded that you take him to a certain city is when you should've left. You shouldn't have called the taxi after that.

Be safe and use better judgement

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by freakbook

Whoa there big fella. I commend you for trying to help someone down on their luck, but it's crazy that you watch UM and you're still willing to give a hitchhiker a ride


I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but please be careful. When you said he got aggressive and demanded that you take him to a certain city is when you should've left. You shouldn't have called the taxi after that.

Be safe and use better judgement

I hear what you mean, and perhaps you are right. For me the city we live in up until the last 3-4 years has been relatively safe, but with the rise of homelessness and such it isn't the same place anymore. Normally I tend to have a keen eye when it comes to someone genuinely in need and someone who is erratic and dangerous. And yeah, I'm a big guy, sort of look like a retired football lineman in a way, so I sort of feel I can handle myself and always have.

Granted, I knew not to let the guy get in my car despite him being persuasive, that was a red flag to me. I wish Philip did that too because anyone opening your door and demanding to get in is not up to any good. It was 1988, so things were different then as well, but even the Olsen man that stopped to help him at the side of the road was taking a risk of course. There could have been an ambush. Of course in 2023 we look at the world like it has always been this way and that everyone always had a cell phone, but no one had one in 1988 so you pretty much had to rely on the help of strangers. Still, Philip should never have let a guy basically bully himself into his car.

[zack007attack]

Originally Posted by rusty spike

Maybe I'm mixed up in the details, but I thought the hitch hiker (suspect) was dropped off by a motorist driving north. The suspect then entered the diner and then paid before going out to find Philip, who was parked on the side of the road (looking through his car). I looked for some notes to clarify which direction the motorist was originally driving, but didn't see any notes. I thought the re-enactment had the hitch hiker and vehicle going in the opposite direction, but the re enactment could be wrong.

Suppose my understanding is off and the motorist was heading south, why did the hitch hiker bail off a ride that was already going south? (assuming the original ride was going south to begin with). If traffic is sparse and people have misgivings about picking up strangers, sort of makes you wonder why ask to be let off if a ride is traveling the direction you want to go.

Maybe the motorist who dropped off the hitch hiker originally offered to take the hitch hiker as far as he could without going off his own planned route, so the 40 Mile Flats Cafe was the best place to drop him off and find his next ride. So it's plausible the motorist was going to turn west or east, or was heading home and his residence was in close proximity to the cafe.