What Are Your Thoughts On The ATV Murders?

[infinityluxe]

One of my top 10 segments. Someone went through a lot of trouble to move the ATVs and the bodies away from the crime scene. They definitely wanted that crime scene to never be found.

[mercy1825]

I'm sorry, but what exactly is your point? The late Frank Casteel was tried and convicted of these appalling homicides. Yes he moved the bodies and tried to cover up the crime scene. Most likely because he knew he would become a suspect if/when the original crime scene was located. I know that not everyone convicted of murder is truly guilty (ie. Walter Ogrod, etc), but in my opinion Frank Casteel was.

[ghosthouse]

Sure seems like they got the guy. Brutal crime.

You can tell when UM decided they were going all in on a segment and this case was one of them. Really well done.

[sdb4884]

Truly one of the more memorable cases. I'm sure they got the right guy may he burn in hell.

[Or So It Seems]

My thoughts are that it was an exceptionally brutal case that in retrospect took far too long to solve. Looking back, it's obvious that the landowner of "the gate" was the #1 suspect, especially since he had a history of conflict with people wanting to access that area. Frank Casteel did a good job of covering his tracks and it was primarily because of his mistress that the case unraveled for him.

[rusty spike]

It was heinous that the killer had the wife or girlfriend block the road to thru traffic while the bodies were loaded and the ATV's.

[Or So It Seems]

Originally Posted by rusty spike

It was heinous that the killer had the wife or girlfriend block the road to thru traffic while the bodies were loaded and the ATV's.

According to the Wiki, she was uninvolved in the murders:

One tipster was the female driver of the Chevrolet. She was not involved in the murders; however, she stated that she tried to direct traffic because her boyfriend's car had broken down. She said that she did not initially come forward because he had spent time in prison and she did not want him to be falsely connected to the murders.

That seems a little too coincidental for her boyfriend not to have been involved in helping Casteel dispose of the bodies and ATV's.

[sharonite]

I remember watching a video on YouTube that tried to poke holes in the case against Casteel by going back and forth between clips from UM and “City Confidential” to point out inconsistencies.

Needless to say, the inconsistencies (IIRC, there was some dispute as to whether it was foggy or clear outside when the ATV riders vanished) were far from convincing.

[dynoguy88]

Originally Posted by sharonite

I remember watching a video on YouTube that tried to poke holes in the case against Casteel by going back and forth between clips from UM and “City Confidential” to point out inconsistencies.

Needless to say, the inconsistencies (IIRC, there was some dispute as to whether it was foggy or clear outside when the ATV riders vanished) were far from convincing.

Casteel’s son made that video. I remember watching it a couple years ago and I had the same reaction you did. 🙄

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

Casteel’s son made that video. I remember watching it a couple years ago and I had the same reaction you did. 🙄

His son wrote a fairly convincing book as to whether or not there was reasonable doubt over Casteel's guilt. The thing that I get hung up on is that if someone else was responsible for the murders of the three men, why did they go out of their way to move the ATVs and bodies when they could have left them where they were shot near Casteel's property.

[ghosthouse]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

His son wrote a fairly convincing book as to whether or not there was reasonable doubt over Casteel's guilt. The thing that I get hung up on is that if someone else was responsible for the murders of the three men, why did they go out of their way to move the ATVs and bodies when they could have left them where they were shot near Casteel's property.

Weren't the bodies and the ATVs taken to a separate spots away from "The Gate" location? I would assume they wanted evidence of the crime far far away from their property.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by ghosthouse

Weren't the bodies and the ATVs taken to a separate spots away from "The Gate" location? I would assume they wanted evidence of the crime far far away from their property.

Yes, but my point was that if Casteel was indeed innocent, why would the real killers care about moving the bodies, since they would seemingly implicate him? Moving the bodies and the ATVs is something that cannot be explained with Casteel's innocence, IMO.

[DALLASTEXAN!!]

this has all the signs of a guy who allowed his territorial rage to get the best of him. he tried to cover it up and never admitted to his crimes. I think his son is wrong, it's just a matter of whether he actually believes his dad is innocent or if he is outright lying about it. which I guess doesn't really matter at this point.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by DALLASTEXAN!!

this has all the signs of a guy who allowed his territorial rage to get the best of him. he tried to cover it up and never admitted to his crimes. I think his son is wrong, it's just a matter of whether he actually believes his dad is innocent or if he is outright lying about it. which I guess doesn't really matter at this point.

TheCars and I did have a rather lengthy discussion on this case and Trevor did indeed bring up some fairly good points, his primary arguments being that the actual spot where the murders occurred was some distance away from his actual property and not a likely spot where he usually ran people off. He even named another gentleman who was a likely suspect, and who did indeed know the area and apparently had an axe to grind with one of the victims.

However, I don't personally feel his points were enough to exonerate his father, given the evidence presented.

But the thing is, we don't really know what Trevor knows or what he doesn't know. He might very well sincerely believe his father was innocent and was duped. He might not actually know. In which case you can sympathize with him for wanting to clear his father's name. Of course if he knows his dad did it and is just making all this up to muddy the waters, that's a different story and would make him as big a scumbag as his dad.

As to whether or not he knows his dad did it or not, I'm not really sure how old Trevor was at the time, or whether he lived with his dad then and was he in the vicinity the night of the murders? If so, it may be more likely that he knows the truth whether his dad was innocent or guilty. Allegedly one of Casteel's sons helped him with disposing of the bodies, but it was not Trevor.

I will say though, if indeed Trevor knows the truth and is just trying to muddy the waters, it seems odd to me that he would continue to try to clear his dad's name. Frank is deceased now so there wouldn't be anything to gain from it other than clearing his name, and name clearing isn't generally something killers or protectors of killers care about. Unless of course they are trying to get some sort of wrongful death settlement or money, which as far as I know he isn't trying to do. So if I had to guess, I'd say Trevor is sincere, he either genuinely knows his dad is innocent or he was duped into believing he was. I honestly think it was probably the latter.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Yes, but my point was that if Casteel was indeed innocent, why would the real killers care about moving the bodies, since they would seemingly implicate him? Moving the bodies and the ATVs is something that cannot be explained with Casteel's innocence, IMO.

I think this pretty well sums up why people think it was Casteel. Its pretty obvious whoever did it was trying to cover up the fact that the murders occurred there. Only the landowner or someone with a connection to the spot would do this. So I think it either had to be Casteel, or another adjacent landowner. And Casteel as far as I know was the only land owner around who was known to threaten people with a shotgun. Yes the actual spot was not Casteel's property but it was close enough, and as far as I know the No Trespassing signs were his were they not?

Not only that, but I think it looks like these murders were not planned. By all accounts Griffith, Smock, and Mason's decision to go out that way was last minute so no one seems likely to have known they were going to be out there. Which means the killer they encountered was out there for a legit different reason and not out there laying for them to murder them. So that is probably either a hostile landowner as people thought Casteel was, or someone doing something else illegal out there like drugs.

And as far as I know, its also never been established if there was another adjacent landowner around who was known to threaten people with a shotgun, only Casteel.