Did Marlo Thomas push the feminism thing too far? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

MichaelKeith · 05-15-2023, 04:29 PM

I read recently that the producers wanted the last episode series finale to be the wedding of Donald and Ann. But Marlo was adamant that the series not end in a wedding as she thought that would send the wrong message to her female viewers that happy endings only came through marriage. I mean, practically the whole final season was devoted to the wedding planning. Last week Donald had his bachelor's party. I'm waiting for the Antenna TV's Saturday showings to get to the final episode in a couple of weeks so I can see how it actually ends. But in the meantime, how does the show actually end?

ThisLittlePiggy · 05-15-2023, 05:44 PM

I think the last episode was when Don and Ann got stuck in an elevator and the show had different clips of the series over the years.

stevea · 05-15-2023, 08:43 PM

Yep. I think she was on her way to a women's rights meeting (and maybe she was dragging Don to it) and they got stuck on the elevator.

I recently saw a fascinating old A&E Biography from 2001 on the series, and yes, Marlo would not allow them to marry; and, it was her Daisy Productions show.

Totally off-topic, but the really memorable thing in that special for me was that she revealed how she loved and adored Lew Parker (Lew Marie on the show). He fell ill around 1972, and when she visited him in the hospital, he asked her to deliver his eulogy.

MichaelKeith · 05-16-2023, 09:39 AM

Thanks for the replies and information, guys! Interesting about the last episode with a stuck elevator. Wouldn't it have been funny if they had been on their way to the wedding instead and got stuck in the elevator! Now that would have been an ending!

Charles Knox · 05-16-2023, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelKeith

Thanks for the replies and information, guys! Interesting about the last episode with a stuck elevator. Wouldn't it have been funny if they had been on their way to the wedding instead and got stuck in the elevator! Now that would have been an ending!

It could of been a 2part finale, with the first part being about them getting stuck in the elevator on their way to the chapel. Don and Ann Marie reminisced about past show highlights (run the clips) while being trapped in the elevator. The 2nd part would be about them rushing to make it to their wedding, and Ann Marrie's father is freaking out (as usual).

A while back, I found all 5 seasons (unopened) for about 3 or 4 dollars a set at a thrift store.

Duster76 · 05-16-2023, 11:50 AM

I think most of the young women who were fans of the series wanted to see Ann and Don marry in the final episode. That said, it was very common in those days for a series to end with no concluding episode. My point, the fact that the series did not end with the actual marriage ceremony accomplished nothing and Marlo's attempting to take credit for something she didn't do is little more than self-indulgent.

As Michael pointed out "the whole final season was devoted to the wedding planning", so the fact that the characters were getting married was firmly established. If Ann had turned down the proposal, that would have been something, and Marlo could reasonably take credit for it. If her character had received a job offer from Hollywood and she wanted to pursue that dream ending the engagement or at least considering ending the engagement (with no final determination made), even that would have been something, but the way the series ended sent no message. I understand why from a business perspective the series would not end on a down note, namely the potential of adversely effecting syndication value. Marlo and the other producers recognized that fact and finished the series in the way most series of that era ended.

I like the series don't get me wrong, but there was nothing liberating about it. The character of Ann had a boyfriend from episode one, she was a virgin throughout the series run (there were numerous episodes on this topic), how unrealistic a relationship fact was that, two 30ish young people living in Manhattan, in the late 1960's, with their own apartments no less!

icecream · 05-16-2023, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duster76

I like the series don't get me wrong, but there was nothing liberating about it. The character of Ann had a boyfriend from episode one, she was a virgin throughout the series run (there were numerous episodes on this topic), how unrealistic a relationship fact was that, two 30ish young people living in Manhattan, in the late 1960's, with their own apartments no less!

TV shows today are too quick to have characters sleep with someone, or worse sleep around. Part of my religion is not having premarital sex and waiting for marriage. There are many others like me as well.

MichaelKeith · 05-16-2023, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icecream

TV shows today are too quick to have characters sleep with someone, or worse sleep around. Part of my religion is not having premarital sex and waiting for marriage. There are many others like me as well.

Yes, you have a valid point Icecream! I totally understand and being religious is good (I am Catholic) and everyone should make their own choice in this matter. So kudos to you for sticking to your ideals!

I also understand Duster76's point about two young attractive single people living in Manhattan in the late 60s being so chaste and prim. Many people would not have lived separate like that even then. But TV was still pretty conservative in the 1960s so I understand that. However, That Girl didn't end its run till 1971 when a lot of young people were living together.

ThisLittlePiggy · 05-16-2023, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevea

Yep. I think she was on her way to a women's rights meeting (and maybe she was dragging Don to it) and they got stuck on the elevator.

I recently saw a fascinating old A&E Biography from 2001 on the series, and yes, Marlo would not allow them to marry; and, it was her Daisy Productions show.

Totally off-topic, but the really memorable thing in that special for me was that she revealed how she loved and adored Lew Parker (Lew Marie on the show). He fell ill around 1972, and when she visited him in the hospital, he asked her to deliver his eulogy.

Yes, I think that episode is called The Elevated Woman.

I loved That Girl and I loved Lew Parker as Ann's father. I never knew she delivered his eulogy. That is very touching to hear.

Duster76 · 05-16-2023, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icecream

TV shows today are too quick to have characters sleep with someone, or worse sleep around. Part of my religion is not having premarital sex and waiting for marriage. There are many others like me as well.

"Too quick", They were in a long-term committed relationship that originated at the beginning of the series!

To put your comments into the vernacular of that day, Ann Marie was saving herself for marriage. Ok, but going back to the statement Michael opened with, "Marlo was adamant that the series not end in a wedding as she thought that would send the wrong message to her female viewers that happy endings only came through marriage". It can be reasonably inferred from Marlo's comments that she was nor necessarily suggesting waiting for marriage.

Duster76 · 05-16-2023, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelKeith

Yes, you have a valid point Icecream! I totally understand and being religious is good (I am Catholic) and everyone should make their own choice in this matter. So kudos to you for sticking to your ideals!

I also understand Duster76's point about two young attractive single people living in Manhattan in the late 60s being so chaste and prim. Many people would not have lived separate like that even then. But TV was still pretty conservative in the 1960s so I understand that. However, That Girl didn't end its run till 1971 when a lot of young people were living together.

Going back to your original point, I didn't think this series broke any significant new ground at all. I think Marlo rewrote the history of the series giving herself credit for something that never happened. There was nothing liberating going on, she had boyfriend from the first episode until season 5 when they got engaged and then she had a fiancé. By definition, she was committed to marrying Donald, the fact that the marriage didn't take place on the series is irrelevant. As already noted many series of that day did not have concluding episodes. If she wanted to make the statement she claims she made then her character should not have become engaged, or the engagement should have been broken off, or at least called into question without any resolution.

rusty spike · 05-17-2023, 11:28 AM

Maybe viewers were annoyed with the "right" message that the Ann character sent.

I thought Ann and probably Don were too fickle. Both were so wishy-washy. Maybe that was considered to be romantic back then.

I like the show, but I have a hard time rewatching the episodes.

05-15-2023, 04:29 PM	#1
MichaelKeith Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 01, 2007 Posts: 1,139	Did Marlo Thomas push the feminism thing too far? I read recently that the producers wanted the last episode series finale to be the wedding of Donald and Ann. But Marlo was adamant that the series not end in a wedding as she thought that would send the wrong message to her female viewers that happy endings only came through marriage. I mean, practically the whole final season was devoted to the wedding planning. Last week Donald had his bachelor's party. I'm waiting for the Antenna TV's Saturday showings to get to the final episode in a couple of weeks so I can see how it actually ends. But in the meantime, how does the show actually end?

05-15-2023, 05:44 PM	#2
ThisLittlePiggy Member Forum Junkie Join Date: Nov 02, 2013 Posts: 83,640	I think the last episode was when Don and Ann got stuck in an elevator and the show had different clips of the series over the years.

05-15-2023, 08:43 PM	#3
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,439	Yep. I think she was on her way to a women's rights meeting (and maybe she was dragging Don to it) and they got stuck on the elevator. I recently saw a fascinating old A&E Biography from 2001 on the series, and yes, Marlo would not allow them to marry; and, it was her Daisy Productions show. Totally off-topic, but the really memorable thing in that special for me was that she revealed how she loved and adored Lew Parker (Lew Marie on the show). He fell ill around 1972, and when she visited him in the hospital, he asked her to deliver his eulogy.

05-16-2023, 09:39 AM	#4
MichaelKeith Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 01, 2007 Posts: 1,139	Thanks for the replies and information, guys! Interesting about the last episode with a stuck elevator. Wouldn't it have been funny if they had been on their way to the wedding instead and got stuck in the elevator! Now that would have been an ending!

05-16-2023, 11:50 AM	#6
Duster76 Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 01, 2008 Location: New jersey Posts: 1,641	I think most of the young women who were fans of the series wanted to see Ann and Don marry in the final episode. That said, it was very common in those days for a series to end with no concluding episode. My point, the fact that the series did not end with the actual marriage ceremony accomplished nothing and Marlo's attempting to take credit for something she didn't do is little more than self-indulgent. As Michael pointed out "the whole final season was devoted to the wedding planning", so the fact that the characters were getting married was firmly established. If Ann had turned down the proposal, that would have been something, and Marlo could reasonably take credit for it. If her character had received a job offer from Hollywood and she wanted to pursue that dream ending the engagement or at least considering ending the engagement (with no final determination made), even that would have been something, but the way the series ended sent no message. I understand why from a business perspective the series would not end on a down note, namely the potential of adversely effecting syndication value. Marlo and the other producers recognized that fact and finished the series in the way most series of that era ended. I like the series don't get me wrong, but there was nothing liberating about it. The character of Ann had a boyfriend from episode one, she was a virgin throughout the series run (there were numerous episodes on this topic), how unrealistic a relationship fact was that, two 30ish young people living in Manhattan, in the late 1960's, with their own apartments no less!

05-17-2023, 11:28 AM	#12
rusty spike Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 08, 2015 Location: Southwest Posts: 1,124	Maybe viewers were annoyed with the "right" message that the Ann character sent. I thought Ann and probably Don were too fickle. Both were so wishy-washy. Maybe that was considered to be romantic back then. I like the show, but I have a hard time rewatching the episodes.