MeTV vs. “Rise and Shine”? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

cd637299 · 12-26-2022, 12:28 AM

Hey

When The Flintstones debuted on MeTV, it had no issue, running the computer-colorized “Rise and Shine” opening for the Seasons 1 and 2 episodes. I know that the late Earl Kress helped bring about this monumental effort, as Seasons 1 and 2 on ABC, although the body of the episodes was produced in color, the open/close was in B&W with sponsor features.

Not much later on, MeTV dropped that, and slapped on a Season 5-or-6 opening, and the same 1963 close (apparently for “Fred’s Dream” or whatever the ep was called, as Janet Waldo was in the credits, likely playing teenage Pebbles in Fred’s nightmare).

Now….what caused the drop of Kress and Co.’s work? There has to be some musical licensing issue, although Hoyt Curtin did almost all the music throughout the series, not counting the eps Ted Nichols supervised.

Kress died quite young, I believe. I wonder, had he been still alive, what he woulda said/thought about all this.

After all, why have Pebbles & Bamm-Bamm in openings of eps that don’t even involve them?

Has there been a story on this?

[BTW how many are old enough to remember the syndicated run in late 60s to 70s, where a similar thing was done, running “Meet the Flintstones” except they deleted an entire line in the opening for S1 & 2 (“through the courtesy of Fred’s two feet” deleted, ending up in 4 seconds of silence on the video)? One poster on a board I used to frequent, said folk felt it sounded like “ABC” in the lyrics, albeit running on Saturday mornings on NBC in reruns 1967-70, concurrent with the syndie rerun package. That was horrible! At least MeTV didn’t do that!!]

Sorry for rambling.

cd

Charles Knox · 12-26-2022, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cd637299

Hey

When The Flintstones debuted on MeTV, it had no issue, running the computer-colorized “Rise and Shine” opening for the Seasons 1 and 2 episodes. I know that the late Earl Kress helped bring about this monumental effort, as Seasons 1 and 2 on ABC, although the body of the episodes was produced in color, the open/close was in B&W with sponsor features.

Not much later on, MeTV dropped that, and slapped on a Season 5-or-6 opening, and the same 1963 close (apparently for “Fred’s Dream” or whatever the ep was called, as Janet Waldo was in the credits, likely playing teenage Pebbles in Fred’s nightmare).

Now….what caused the drop of Kress and Co.’s work? There has to be some musical licensing issue, although Hoyt Curtin did almost all the music throughout the series, not counting the eps Ted Nichols supervised.

Kress died quite young, I believe. I wonder, had he been still alive, what he woulda said/thought about all this.

After all, why have Pebbles & Bamm-Bamm in openings of eps that don’t even involve them?

Has there been a story on this?

[BTW how many are old enough to remember the syndicated run in late 60s to 70s, where a similar thing was done, running “Meet the Flintstones” except they deleted an entire line in the opening for S1 & 2 (“through the courtesy of Fred’s two feet” deleted, ending up in 4 seconds of silence on the video)? One poster on a board I used to frequent, said folk felt it sounded like “ABC” in the lyrics, albeit running on Saturday mornings on NBC in reruns 1967-70, concurrent with the syndie rerun package. That was horrible! At least MeTV didn’t do that!!]

Sorry for rambling.

cd

Probably just something to do with ratings. A lot of boomers watched the Flintstones on Saturday morning and all they remembered, is the catchy "Meet The Flintstones" opening and closing intro.

stevea · 12-26-2022, 09:14 AM

Until CN "rescued" "Rise and Shine", most people didn't remember the black and white version with the original animation and theme. The closing credits, which originally varied by episode, were altered to group all the individual voice and technical information. To re-produce those individually in color would have been cost-prohibitive. Individual-episode credit and color negatives were probably left on the cutting room floor when they dumped "Rise and Shine" for syndication. The same kind of thing happened when CBS cut up the negatives for the original ABC Bugs Bunny Show, and threw out elements they didn't want. Thus only fragments of the original animation exist in color, as can be seen on some of the Golden Collection DVDs. It would be great to see the original show recreated--at least the cartoons themselves would be easy to obtain in color.

The 1960s Jetsons credits fared better, having been originally broadcast in color; however, the individual episode credits were "rescued" only a few years ago for a Blu-Ray release. Apparently they were too lazy to use them for syndication; same happened with Top Cat (also affected by being originally broadcast in black and white) and the original Jonny Quest; "Jonny" credits were similarly rescued but Top Cat, never.

I agree with Charles--we know MeTV had ratings problems with daily airings of The Flintstones--the initial answer was to dump "Rise and Shine." The later answer was to dump weekday airings.

cd637299 · 12-26-2022, 09:43 AM

OK I’m a little confused. So, does it cost MeTV a pretty penny for each airing of “Rise and Shine”?? I get the familiarity of “Meet the Flintstones”—but heck, everybody knows that tune, and it’ll come around for every season 3-6 ep.

A fantastic percentage of MeTV viewers are into “the little things”, and for MeTV to deprive them of things like “Rise & Shine”, especially after Earl & co. went thru what they went thru to restore it….just wow.

Thanks for that info on the Jetsons closings. I was glad to see the individual closes. I had no idea how they came about. Yeah as to “Top Cat,” that’s a shame. I do recognize traits of some of H-B’s animators of the time. Sad that Carlo Vinci, Ed Love, Bill Keil, et al. weren’t recognized. All credits are Muse/Hathcock. And Kin Platt certainly didn’t write every episode. When NBC reran TC in the late 60s, was it the same then? I’d guess so, as far as the expense of going color 30 times…

cd

stevea · 12-26-2022, 10:11 AM

I'd never heard there was a music rights issue with Rise and Shine. I just agreed with Charles Knox that it was a theme familiarity issue with viewers. If it was a rights issue, the theme would probably have never made it to any DVD set.

I dimly remember hearing about a music issue for Quick Draw. AFAIK H-B typically used the Capitol Library stuff like so many sitcoms did. There was probably a rights issue around 2008 that also affected the first 2 season DVD releases on My Three Sons--same Capitol Library cues.

Those rights must have been solved, because many DVD releases have come out with those cues since then--Dennis the Menace, Donna Reed, and recently, Ozzie and
Harriet, plus the primetime H-B shows.

Someplace I have a black and white episode of Top Cat, as originally shown. There must have been some issue with the original credits which prevented them from being used in syndication. It may have been that the openings and closings were on a different reel--who knows? I can't imagine they weren't produced in color--it's possible the animation was in color and the individual episode credits were superimposed over a black and white dub.

When you see what's done today on Youtube, reproducing them in color would probably be a piece of cake.

cd637299 · 12-26-2022, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevea

I'd never heard there was a music rights issue with Rise and Shine. I just agreed with Charles Knox that it was a theme familiarity issue with viewers. If it was a rights issue, the theme would probably have never made it to any DVD set.

I dimly remember hearing about a music issue for Quick Draw. AFAIK H-B typically used the Capitol Library stuff like so many sitcoms did. There was probably a rights issue around 2008 that also affected the first 2 season DVD releases on My Three Sons--same Capitol Library cues.

Those rights must have been solved, because many DVD releases have come out with those cues since then--Dennis the Menace, Donna Reed, and recently, Ozzie and
Harriet, plus the primetime H-B shows.

Someplace I have a black and white episode of Top Cat, as originally shown. There must have been some issue with the original credits which prevented them from being used in syndication. It may have been that the openings and closings were on a different reel--who knows? I can't imagine they weren't produced in color--it's possible the animation was in color and the individual episode credits were superimposed over a black and white dub.

When you see what's done today on Youtube, reproducing them in color would probably be a piece of cake.

That’s true I suppose about reruns like Dennis, O&H, et al. Antenna TV has run Dennis into the ground and then some. Even if the close was in B&W, I’d be jazzed to see the true credits on TC.

BTW your home episode is “The Late TC,” isn’t it, stevea? (where he got hit in the head with a batted baseball). That one has made the rounds. I think I got a copy from Toontracker long ago.

cd

stevea · 12-26-2022, 10:34 AM

It's probably that episode--it's been a long time since I've seen either the episode or the VHS tape it's on. I also have a few b-w episodes of the original Bugs Bunny Show.

Unfortunately Top Cat is probably not popular enough to ever be correctly issued in HD on Blu Ray. It is unfortunate, since it was an excellent production that deserved more than one season.

cd637299 · 12-26-2022, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevea

It's probably that episode--it's been a long time since I've seen either the episode or the VHS tape it's on. I also have a few b-w episodes of the original Bugs Bunny Show.

Unfortunately Top Cat is probably not popular enough to ever be correctly issued in HD on Blu Ray. It is unfortunate, since it was an excellent production that deserved more than one season.

“The Late TC,” written by the lovely Joanna “Plan 9 from Outer Space” Lee.*

I have one “multi-gen” video of a Bugs Bunny Show that features the now-banned (I assume) “Wise Quackers”. I do remember 1990’s Merrie Melodies series still showing it along with (gasp!) “Caveman Inki.” My copy of that show is actually the 1961 rerun of s1e2, because it featured baseball cards on Post boxes for the 1961 season. I had a baseball card book!

[*In a related note, there was a 1959 movie shown on Mystery Science Theater 3000, that featured a Hi-Q cue from Huck/Yogi, called “Domestic Children,” per the Yowp site. I was floored to hear one of the silhouetted critics say in the Goliath-the-Dog voice, “Gee Davey!!” I got the joke! But I wonder how many scratched their heads at that one.

cd

stevea · 12-26-2022, 11:11 AM

Both Wise Quackers and all the Inkis are banned, AFAIK. I have Wise Quackers from local TV years ago and on the Daffy Duck Frustrated Fowl DVD. Wise Quackers would be easily edited at the end to remove the Abe Lincoln slavery bit, but the whole cartoon would be considered offensive today. There's one of the Inkis I like, but as much of a Jones fan as I am, the other two are meh. I've finally warmed up a little to Sniffles, then I saw the final one from around 1947 the other day and he's absolutely insufferable in that one--Hush My Mouse, I just looked up the title.

Back to The Flintstones though--the editing of "through the courtesy of Fred's 2 feet" years ago. I wonder if some know-nothing editor didn't understand the lyrics (as many people didn't) and thought it was a sponsor tag.

cd637299 · 12-26-2022, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevea

Both Wise Quackers and all the Inkis are banned, AFAIK. I have Wise Quackers from local TV years ago and on the Daffy Duck Frustrated Fowl DVD. Wise Quackers would be easily edited at the end to remove the Abe Lincoln slavery bit, but the whole cartoon would be considered offensive today. There's one of the Inkis I like, but as much of a Jones fan as I am, the other two are meh. I've finally warmed up a little to Sniffles, then I saw the final one from around 1947 the other day and he's absolutely insufferable in that one--Hush My Mouse, I just looked up the title.

Back to The Flintstones though--the editing of "through the courtesy of Fred's 2 feet" years ago. I wonder if some know-nothing editor didn't understand the lyrics (as many people didn't) and thought it was a sponsor tag.

“Hush My Mouse” was the last straw! Sniffles cartoons aside from HMM are too slow to develop, as many Jones pre-Dover Boys toons were. I think I read he was trying to emulate Disney (Old Glory, Tom Thumb in Trouble, etc.).

I say that The Dover Boys was WB’s reverse-jump-the-shark moment!

I once asked a female co-worker the trivia question about what’s the next line in The Flintstones right after “Let’s ride with the family down the street”. First word that came out was “Rudolph…” I heard that too!

cd

stevea · 12-26-2022, 11:50 AM

I never could get Fred's two feet. Nor Gee our old LaSalle ran great LOL.

Sniffles would not hush in "Hush"--thus the title, I guess. By that time he was an afterthought for Jones. Of all the Sniffles to fully restore, that one! I do enjoy the Christmas cartoon though--I would like to see a full restoration, with credits, for that one. The first or second one was enjoyable, with the come-to-life shaver that nailed the cat for him.

cd637299 · 12-26-2022, 11:56 AM

[QUOTE=stevea;6117857]I never could get Fred's two feet. Nor Gee our old LaSalle ran great LOL.

Sniffles would.[/https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r5WPQIMcW_s QUOTE]

Funny thing about that LaSalle…Archie & Edith not only enunciated the lyrics in a new opening, not once, but twice!

cd

stevea · 12-26-2022, 11:59 AM

Yes, they redid it a second time, for the final season. In that one Edith adds a little coda, IIRC.

Charles Knox · 12-26-2022, 12:36 PM

A bigger issue, is it sucks that shows I really like that was really popular at one time, can't find a big enough audience, today. Shows I don't really care for, or just lukewarm to, thrive on the network. (METV).

cd637299 · 12-26-2022, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Knox

A bigger issue, is it sucks that shows I really like that was really popular at one time, can't find a big enough audience, today. Shows I don't really care for, or just lukewarm to, thrive on the network. (METV).

I surely don’t wanna stray far OT—but yes that’s another thread altogether.

I have a good buddy in Va. who is always complaining about MeTV never putting M*A*S*H or Hogan on hiatus. I told him that’s the way the ratings go. In fact, I read where the MeTV CEO said that if he never saw Hogan again, it’d be fine with him.

I don’t get it either, but such is TV. I’m just glad I can see classic TV and NOT have to pay for it. Here in Miami, Antenna TV debuted first, and MeTV hopped on about 4 months later. Classic TV is pretty much my TV diet, outside of sporting events—and ever since I married, even THAT is losing my interest.

cd

12-26-2022, 12:28 AM	#1
cd637299 cd637299 Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 14, 2022 Location: South Florida Posts: 844	MeTV vs. “Rise and Shine”? Hey When The Flintstones debuted on MeTV, it had no issue, running the computer-colorized “Rise and Shine” opening for the Seasons 1 and 2 episodes. I know that the late Earl Kress helped bring about this monumental effort, as Seasons 1 and 2 on ABC, although the body of the episodes was produced in color, the open/close was in B&W with sponsor features. Not much later on, MeTV dropped that, and slapped on a Season 5-or-6 opening, and the same 1963 close (apparently for “Fred’s Dream” or whatever the ep was called, as Janet Waldo was in the credits, likely playing teenage Pebbles in Fred’s nightmare). Now….what caused the drop of Kress and Co.’s work? There has to be some musical licensing issue, although Hoyt Curtin did almost all the music throughout the series, not counting the eps Ted Nichols supervised. Kress died quite young, I believe. I wonder, had he been still alive, what he woulda said/thought about all this. After all, why have Pebbles & Bamm-Bamm in openings of eps that don’t even involve them? Has there been a story on this? [BTW how many are old enough to remember the syndicated run in late 60s to 70s, where a similar thing was done, running “Meet the Flintstones” except they deleted an entire line in the opening for S1 & 2 (“through the courtesy of Fred’s two feet” deleted, ending up in 4 seconds of silence on the video)? One poster on a board I used to frequent, said folk felt it sounded like “ABC” in the lyrics, albeit running on Saturday mornings on NBC in reruns 1967-70, concurrent with the syndie rerun package. That was horrible! At least MeTV didn’t do that!!] Sorry for rambling. cd

12-26-2022, 09:14 AM	#3
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,178	Until CN "rescued" "Rise and Shine", most people didn't remember the black and white version with the original animation and theme. The closing credits, which originally varied by episode, were altered to group all the individual voice and technical information. To re-produce those individually in color would have been cost-prohibitive. Individual-episode credit and color negatives were probably left on the cutting room floor when they dumped "Rise and Shine" for syndication. The same kind of thing happened when CBS cut up the negatives for the original ABC Bugs Bunny Show, and threw out elements they didn't want. Thus only fragments of the original animation exist in color, as can be seen on some of the Golden Collection DVDs. It would be great to see the original show recreated--at least the cartoons themselves would be easy to obtain in color. The 1960s Jetsons credits fared better, having been originally broadcast in color; however, the individual episode credits were "rescued" only a few years ago for a Blu-Ray release. Apparently they were too lazy to use them for syndication; same happened with Top Cat (also affected by being originally broadcast in black and white) and the original Jonny Quest; "Jonny" credits were similarly rescued but Top Cat, never. I agree with Charles--we know MeTV had ratings problems with daily airings of The Flintstones--the initial answer was to dump "Rise and Shine." The later answer was to dump weekday airings.

12-26-2022, 09:43 AM	#4
cd637299 cd637299 Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 14, 2022 Location: South Florida Posts: 844	OK I’m a little confused. So, does it cost MeTV a pretty penny for each airing of “Rise and Shine”?? I get the familiarity of “Meet the Flintstones”—but heck, everybody knows that tune, and it’ll come around for every season 3-6 ep. A fantastic percentage of MeTV viewers are into “the little things”, and for MeTV to deprive them of things like “Rise & Shine”, especially after Earl & co. went thru what they went thru to restore it….just wow. Thanks for that info on the Jetsons closings. I was glad to see the individual closes. I had no idea how they came about. Yeah as to “Top Cat,” that’s a shame. I do recognize traits of some of H-B’s animators of the time. Sad that Carlo Vinci, Ed Love, Bill Keil, et al. weren’t recognized. All credits are Muse/Hathcock. And Kin Platt certainly didn’t write every episode. When NBC reran TC in the late 60s, was it the same then? I’d guess so, as far as the expense of going color 30 times… cd

12-26-2022, 10:11 AM	#5
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,178	I'd never heard there was a music rights issue with Rise and Shine. I just agreed with Charles Knox that it was a theme familiarity issue with viewers. If it was a rights issue, the theme would probably have never made it to any DVD set. I dimly remember hearing about a music issue for Quick Draw. AFAIK H-B typically used the Capitol Library stuff like so many sitcoms did. There was probably a rights issue around 2008 that also affected the first 2 season DVD releases on My Three Sons--same Capitol Library cues. Those rights must have been solved, because many DVD releases have come out with those cues since then--Dennis the Menace, Donna Reed, and recently, Ozzie and Harriet, plus the primetime H-B shows. Someplace I have a black and white episode of Top Cat, as originally shown. There must have been some issue with the original credits which prevented them from being used in syndication. It may have been that the openings and closings were on a different reel--who knows? I can't imagine they weren't produced in color--it's possible the animation was in color and the individual episode credits were superimposed over a black and white dub. When you see what's done today on Youtube, reproducing them in color would probably be a piece of cake.

12-26-2022, 10:34 AM	#7
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,178	It's probably that episode--it's been a long time since I've seen either the episode or the VHS tape it's on. I also have a few b-w episodes of the original Bugs Bunny Show. Unfortunately Top Cat is probably not popular enough to ever be correctly issued in HD on Blu Ray. It is unfortunate, since it was an excellent production that deserved more than one season.

12-26-2022, 11:11 AM	#9
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,178	Both Wise Quackers and all the Inkis are banned, AFAIK. I have Wise Quackers from local TV years ago and on the Daffy Duck Frustrated Fowl DVD. Wise Quackers would be easily edited at the end to remove the Abe Lincoln slavery bit, but the whole cartoon would be considered offensive today. There's one of the Inkis I like, but as much of a Jones fan as I am, the other two are meh. I've finally warmed up a little to Sniffles, then I saw the final one from around 1947 the other day and he's absolutely insufferable in that one--Hush My Mouse, I just looked up the title. Back to The Flintstones though--the editing of "through the courtesy of Fred's 2 feet" years ago. I wonder if some know-nothing editor didn't understand the lyrics (as many people didn't) and thought it was a sponsor tag.

12-26-2022, 11:50 AM	#11
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,178	I never could get Fred's two feet. Nor Gee our old LaSalle ran great LOL. Sniffles would not hush in "Hush"--thus the title, I guess. By that time he was an afterthought for Jones. Of all the Sniffles to fully restore, that one! I do enjoy the Christmas cartoon though--I would like to see a full restoration, with credits, for that one. The first or second one was enjoyable, with the come-to-life shaver that nailed the cat for him.

12-26-2022, 11:56 AM	#12
cd637299 cd637299 Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 14, 2022 Location: South Florida Posts: 844	[QUOTE=stevea;6117857]I never could get Fred's two feet. Nor Gee our old LaSalle ran great LOL. Sniffles would.[/https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r5WPQIMcW_s QUOTE] Funny thing about that LaSalle…Archie & Edith not only enunciated the lyrics in a new opening, not once, but twice! cd

12-26-2022, 11:59 AM	#13
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,178	Yes, they redid it a second time, for the final season. In that one Edith adds a little coda, IIRC.

12-26-2022, 12:36 PM	#14
Charles Knox Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 17, 2009 Posts: 1,225	A bigger issue, is it sucks that shows I really like that was really popular at one time, can't find a big enough audience, today. Shows I don't really care for, or just lukewarm to, thrive on the network. (METV).