Do You Think David Groh Was Unjustly Fired From 'Rhoda?' - Page 2 - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

JSP · 09-15-2019, 09:17 AM

Season 3 was also a mess due to the absence of Nancy Walker, and Anne Meara couldn't fill the void. Season 4 was an improvement over Season 3, and I actually like Season 4 of Rhoda the most.

stevea · 09-15-2019, 12:42 PM

The rough edge to the Joe character wasn't David Groh's acting. It's the fact the writers decided to cast him as a guy who demolished buildings for a living.

Facts are facts--season one the show was number 6 in ratings and season 2, number 7. If you have a minor character problem, you tinker around the edges, you don't do a radical thing like ditching the marriage. Why not? It's a hit show! I'm surprised CBS didn't put their collective feet down.

Let's say the producers don't like Joe's rough edges--have him decide to change careers. You even get a few scripts out of that.

It was a gigantic bungle. Season 3 plunged to #32 and only made a minor recovery for the fourth season.

As far as the original question of the thread, it all depends on how his contract was written. In all likelihood he didn't have a long-term contract. If he was contracted season to season, it was within their rights to not renew it.

(Edit: I didn't see the previous post re Nancy Walker and season 3--I'd forgotten about that. Losing her for that season was a double-whammy.)

Sitcomaround · 02-25-2021, 07:08 PM

Canceling the Joe character is a bungle right up there with losing Farah Fawcett for Charley's Angels, and killing off Tina Louise in Dallas's first season.

It's totally true about tinkering around the edges. They could have separated, but still interacted, and then there could have been all sorts of story lines about them sabotaging eachother's dates.

Or. . . .have them have a child, or adopt a child (so you can get all those cute lines).

Or move to an apartment building that they bought (and fill it with zany characters).

But removing Joe was just ridiculous, the Gary Levy character was great, but faded after a while. By his last episodes, he was always paired off with Brenda, or sitting on a couch to the side.

Charley Knox · 02-25-2021, 07:29 PM

Since this wasn't a family show, the marriage wasn't going to work. Should of just fell back on an cliche and killed him off. That way, both parties could have walked away with clean hands. And since he worked in demolition construction, wouldn't been a real stretch from reality. Heck, they could even made it a heroic death.

TVFactFan · 02-26-2021, 12:35 AM

All that hype for the wedding episode and they dont even stay together

Sitcomaround · 03-04-2021, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

All that hype for the wedding episode and they dont even stay together

Like 50% of all weddings . . . haha

dougiezerts · 04-30-2022, 03:23 PM

A friend of mine told me that he heard that David Groh was very unlikable, and that's why they decided to write him off the show. I hope that wasn't the case.

OOliver · 11-27-2022, 10:29 PM

As the odd man out, I would say Groh was unjustly HIRED.

Let's face it - he was a great looking guy, but was not a comedic actor (he did better in dramas). He really wasn't likeable as a character, and he had no chemistry with Harper.

I'm not sure if many know, but he was not the first choice to play 'Joe'. They wanted Judd Hirsch (who would later play her boyfriend in season 4) - when he auditioned, he had great chemistry with Harper. But when they finally offered JH the role, he had already signed up for a Broadway play - and thought it would be unprofessional to leave the play and join the series, so he passed. I had read they also offered the role to Paul Sands (who guest starred on TMTMS) but Sands had other projects lined up at the time. So Groh was their third choice, and he got the role.

I also read that Groh was upset for a long time (not with Harper, but with the writers) for writing him off. The poor guy had just bought an expensive home in the mountainside - a home he had his heart set on for a long time - thinking he was solid on 'Rhoda'. A few weeks after he bought it, he got the news he would be out of work. I believe he was able to keep his home, though, through other acting jobs.

Duster76 · 11-28-2022, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OOliver

As the odd man out, I would say Groh was unjustly HIRED.

Let's face it - he was a great looking guy, but was not a comedic actor (he did better in dramas). He really wasn't likeable as a character, and he had no chemistry with Harper.

I'm not sure if many know, but he was not the first choice to play 'Joe'. They wanted Judd Hirsch (who would later play her boyfriend in season 4) - when he auditioned, he had great chemistry with Harper. But when they finally offered JH the role, he had already signed up for a Broadway play - and thought it would be unprofessional to leave the play and join the series, so he passed. I had read they also offered the role to Paul Sands (who guest starred on TMTMS) but Sands had other projects lined up at the time. So Groh was their third choice, and he got the role.

I also read that Groh was upset for a long time (not with Harper, but with the writers) for writing him off. The poor guy had just bought an expensive home in the mountainside - a home he had his heart set on for a long time - thinking he was solid on 'Rhoda'. A few weeks after he bought it, he got the news he would be out of work. I believe he was able to keep his home, though, through other acting jobs.

A point on the Paul Sand comment, he had his own show in development the same time Rhoda was in development, the two series both from MTM premiered 5 days apart in September of 74 on CBS, so I doubt Paul Sand was ever in play for the part of Joe.

Hindsight is 20/20, Rhoda probably would have been a better show if she hadn't been married right at the start of the series, but that said it was number 6 in the rating during its first season, and number 7 during its second season. My point, the numbers suggest that Groh wasn't that much of a problem. I suspect that Harper was dissatisfied, Brenda was now more Rhoda and that character was getting the laughs. To correct this Rhoda needed to be single again and divorce (you couldn't make her a widow) was the only way out. The decision was bad one that's for sure, the show never recovered, and if I was a betting man I would put the blame on Harper. Like it or not Rhoda was too far along to make the change made, other options should have been explored.

I never knew Judd Hirsch was up for the role, that's interesting trivia, I think he dodged a bullet.

Yong Fang · 11-28-2022, 01:31 AM

I watched the whole series of Rhoda a couple of months back.

Concerning the Groh character, to me he was angry most of the time. Almost intimidating. He had his friendly side and could be a nice guy, but he just again, seemed angry. This sort of played itself out when the couple seperated and he admitted to her that he never wanted to be married in the first place.

Does anyone else thinks he looks like the English singer Tom Jones?

rusty spike · 11-28-2022, 05:55 PM

I think the whole premise of the show was wrong. Rhoda should have been a swinging partner for Starsky and Hutchison. She could've been with Huggy Bear too just to keep the show interesting.

I am sorry, but I don't think any man could have married Rhoda and live happily ever-after. Rhoda was too divergent, independent and the part that was funny to the audience but not me -Rhoda couldn't make up her mind and it drove Joe nuts.

stevea · 11-28-2022, 07:13 PM

It was a big mistake, and yes it was unfair to David Groh.

The show was a solid ratings winner for the first two seasons. Whether it was Harper or the show runners who engineered the breakup, it was a big backfire.

I agree it was a mistake to marry her so quickly; it might have made an interesting finale to the series. Although the wedding episode itself was a classic.

The show became kind of aimless after the breakup, especially with the loss of Nancy Walker--Rhoda and Ida had such classic scenes and played so well together. Yes, she returned but by then the audience had moved on.

To begin so strong and whimper out without finishing its final season was a sad ending for a show with such promise.

Yong Fang · 11-30-2022, 09:12 PM

Why wouldnt a man want to marry Rhoda? I would.

First, Rhoda was beautiful.

Second, she is independent who has her own job(s) and takes care of herself.

Her mother however was a pain in the ass.

OOliver · 12-04-2022, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duster76

A point on the Paul Sand comment, he had his own show in development the same time Rhoda was in development, the two series both from MTM premiered 5 days apart in September of 74 on CBS, so I doubt Paul Sand was ever in play for the part of Joe.

I wonder if after auditioning for 'Rhoda', MTM saw something in him and offered him his own show, rather than playing second fiddle to Harper ?

stevea · 12-04-2022, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OOliver

I wonder if after auditioning for 'Rhoda', MTM saw something in him and offered him his own show, rather than playing second fiddle to Harper ?

Possibly, plus that MTM show episode he was in, in season 1. One of the better episodes of that season. Of course, that episode was, at that time, way back in 1970.

09-15-2019, 09:17 AM	#16
JSP Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 19, 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 2,735	Season 3 was also a mess due to the absence of Nancy Walker, and Anne Meara couldn't fill the void. Season 4 was an improvement over Season 3, and I actually like Season 4 of Rhoda the most.

09-15-2019, 12:42 PM	#17
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,216	The rough edge to the Joe character wasn't David Groh's acting. It's the fact the writers decided to cast him as a guy who demolished buildings for a living. Facts are facts--season one the show was number 6 in ratings and season 2, number 7. If you have a minor character problem, you tinker around the edges, you don't do a radical thing like ditching the marriage. Why not? It's a hit show! I'm surprised CBS didn't put their collective feet down. Let's say the producers don't like Joe's rough edges--have him decide to change careers. You even get a few scripts out of that. It was a gigantic bungle. Season 3 plunged to #32 and only made a minor recovery for the fourth season. As far as the original question of the thread, it all depends on how his contract was written. In all likelihood he didn't have a long-term contract. If he was contracted season to season, it was within their rights to not renew it. (Edit: I didn't see the previous post re Nancy Walker and season 3--I'd forgotten about that. Losing her for that season was a double-whammy.)

02-25-2021, 07:08 PM	#18
Sitcomaround Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Feb 25, 2021 Location: New York Posts: 16	Canceling the Joe character is a bungle right up there with losing Farah Fawcett for Charley's Angels, and killing off Tina Louise in Dallas's first season. It's totally true about tinkering around the edges. They could have separated, but still interacted, and then there could have been all sorts of story lines about them sabotaging eachother's dates. Or. . . .have them have a child, or adopt a child (so you can get all those cute lines). Or move to an apartment building that they bought (and fill it with zany characters). But removing Joe was just ridiculous, the Gary Levy character was great, but faded after a while. By his last episodes, he was always paired off with Brenda, or sitting on a couch to the side.

02-25-2021, 07:29 PM	#19
Charley Knox Member Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 09, 2019 Location: Tn Posts: 634	Since this wasn't a family show, the marriage wasn't going to work. Should of just fell back on an cliche and killed him off. That way, both parties could have walked away with clean hands. And since he worked in demolition construction, wouldn't been a real stretch from reality. Heck, they could even made it a heroic death.

02-26-2021, 12:35 AM	#20
TVFactFan Member Forum Junkie Join Date: Aug 17, 2002 Posts: 98,967	All that hype for the wedding episode and they dont even stay together

04-30-2022, 03:23 PM	#22
dougiezerts Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 20, 2012 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 204	A friend of mine told me that he heard that David Groh was very unlikable, and that's why they decided to write him off the show. I hope that wasn't the case.

11-27-2022, 10:29 PM	#23
OOliver Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 28, 2009 Location: Providence RI Posts: 569	As the odd man out, I would say Groh was unjustly HIRED. Let's face it - he was a great looking guy, but was not a comedic actor (he did better in dramas). He really wasn't likeable as a character, and he had no chemistry with Harper. I'm not sure if many know, but he was not the first choice to play 'Joe'. They wanted Judd Hirsch (who would later play her boyfriend in season 4) - when he auditioned, he had great chemistry with Harper. But when they finally offered JH the role, he had already signed up for a Broadway play - and thought it would be unprofessional to leave the play and join the series, so he passed. I had read they also offered the role to Paul Sands (who guest starred on TMTMS) but Sands had other projects lined up at the time. So Groh was their third choice, and he got the role. I also read that Groh was upset for a long time (not with Harper, but with the writers) for writing him off. The poor guy had just bought an expensive home in the mountainside - a home he had his heart set on for a long time - thinking he was solid on 'Rhoda'. A few weeks after he bought it, he got the news he would be out of work. I believe he was able to keep his home, though, through other acting jobs.

11-28-2022, 01:31 AM	#25
Yong Fang Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 04, 2009 Location: Memphis Tennessee Posts: 3,072	I watched the whole series of Rhoda a couple of months back. Concerning the Groh character, to me he was angry most of the time. Almost intimidating. He had his friendly side and could be a nice guy, but he just again, seemed angry. This sort of played itself out when the couple seperated and he admitted to her that he never wanted to be married in the first place. Does anyone else thinks he looks like the English singer Tom Jones?

11-28-2022, 05:55 PM	#26
rusty spike Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 08, 2015 Location: Southwest Posts: 1,124	I think the whole premise of the show was wrong. Rhoda should have been a swinging partner for Starsky and Hutchison. She could've been with Huggy Bear too just to keep the show interesting. I am sorry, but I don't think any man could have married Rhoda and live happily ever-after. Rhoda was too divergent, independent and the part that was funny to the audience but not me -Rhoda couldn't make up her mind and it drove Joe nuts.

11-28-2022, 07:13 PM	#27
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,216	It was a big mistake, and yes it was unfair to David Groh. The show was a solid ratings winner for the first two seasons. Whether it was Harper or the show runners who engineered the breakup, it was a big backfire. I agree it was a mistake to marry her so quickly; it might have made an interesting finale to the series. Although the wedding episode itself was a classic. The show became kind of aimless after the breakup, especially with the loss of Nancy Walker--Rhoda and Ida had such classic scenes and played so well together. Yes, she returned but by then the audience had moved on. To begin so strong and whimper out without finishing its final season was a sad ending for a show with such promise.

11-30-2022, 09:12 PM	#28
Yong Fang Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 04, 2009 Location: Memphis Tennessee Posts: 3,072	Why wouldnt a man want to marry Rhoda? I would. First, Rhoda was beautiful. Second, she is independent who has her own job(s) and takes care of herself. Her mother however was a pain in the ass.