Mike Riemer ...Still Think He's Guilty?

[Stratego]

Originally Posted by freakbook

True, his body could've been hidden in plain sight, but his skull was discovered a short distance from where Diana was found. If his skull location is any indication of where Mike died then he should've been found around the time Diana was.

A mile or so away from Diana's body, wasn't it? I think it's totally possible to miss the body if you don't know in what direction to look, especially since the area he was found was described as very wooded with very thick underbrush. I'm not entirely sure why the fact that his body wasn't found around the same time as Diana's points to foul play. Are you saying that if he was murdered, he wasn't dumped there until much later?

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Stratego

But if Mike was not the one who killed Diana, that means she was still alive when he visited his father. What I find interesting is that she didn't go inside the house with them and Mike seemed to be in a hurry.

Not really. If they went to the father's house before going into the woods, then her not going in makes sense if Mike was in a hurry. It also would've been early in the morning so maybe she was sleeping in the car and Mike just ran in real quick to get something and took Crystal to say hi to her grandfather.

Originally Posted by Stratego

A mile or so away from Diana's body, wasn't it? I think it's totally possible to miss the body if you don't know in what direction to look, especially since the area he was found was described as very wooded with very thick underbrush. I'm not entirely sure why the fact that his body wasn't found around the same time as Diana's points to foul play. Are you saying that if he was murdered, he wasn't dumped there until much later?

I mean his body also being missed by hikers, not just the police. Hikers had found Stephens and Diana's body, so I'd figure that someone be it police, hiker, or whomever would've found his corpse in the 25 years since the murders took place. However, you're correct that his body could've been obscured by thick bush. But why would he walk a mile away and hide in thick bush just to kill himself?

So yes, I believe his corpse was taken and his bones were brought back later, or he was buried in a shallow grave and he was eventually unearthed

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Stratego

Well okay, it was more than the skull. I don't think it makes much of a difference. No matter how Mike got there, his remains were likely scattered due to animal acitivity.

A tree was growing through the eye hole in his skull. They were able to determine the age of the tree through its rings and it was exactly as old as he had been missing at that point (in 2011). His body was there the entire time and was simply missed.

[Stratego]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

A tree was growing through the eye hole in his skull. They were able to determine the age of the tree through its rings and it was exactly as old as he had been missing at that point (in 2011). His body was there the entire time and was simply missed.

As you can see in my replies to freakbook, I think so as well. Again, I was answering the question why his remains were incomplete. I believe it's due to animals scattering them.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

A tree was growing through the eye hole in his skull. They were able to determine the age of the tree through its rings and it was exactly as old as he had been missing at that point (in 2011). His body was there the entire time and was simply missed.

Huh? I didn't know that. Then touche, Stratego is correct that the body was simply missed and the remains were scattered by scavengers. My apologies, Stratego.

[TheCars1986]

I also remember that Riemer's father pointed out that his winter coat was found inside of the truck next to Diana's body. I just can't shake the feeling that he was checking his traps while Diana and Crystal were looking for a Christmas tree when he was attacked first before the killer made his way to Diana.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

I also remember that Riemer's father pointed out that his winter coat was found inside of the truck next to Diana's body. I just can't shake the feeling that he was checking his traps while Diana and Crystal were looking for a Christmas tree when he was attacked first before the killer made his way to Diana.

I do as well. Also since I was incorrect and that his body was hidden in thick bush the entire time and was missed, that makes me think he was put there after being attacked.

He was attacked first and hidden, then the perp attacked Diana. He had ample time to stab her repeatedly, take her bra off and tie her hands behind her back while being strangled with a sock. You'd think if Mike was alive he would've heard her scream and ran to the site.

I also can't fathom why he would obscure himself in a thick bush and then kill himself. Also to note no weapons were found near his body, nor did his skull have any holes, so he didn't shoot himself in the head

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by freakbook

I do as well. Also since I was incorrect and that his body was hidden in thick bush the entire time and was missed, that makes me think he was put there after being attacked.

He was attacked first and hidden, then the perp attacked Diana. He had ample time to stab her repeatedly, take her bra off and tie her hands behind her back while being strangled with a sock. You'd think if Mike was alive he would've heard her scream and ran to the site.

I also can't fathom why he would obscure himself in a thick bush and then kill himself. Also to note no weapons were found near his body, nor did his skull have any holes, so he didn't shoot himself in the head

Diana was found nude from the waist up, with her bra binding her hands behind her back, and a tube sock tied around her neck. I know Riemer was physically abusive to her, but on a trip to pick out a Christmas tree with their daughter? I just don't see it going that far. Obviously, the detective disagrees. But the condition of Riemer's skull, where his body was found, as well as Crystal being essentially abandoned point me in the direction that Riemer was a victim in all of this.

[Stratego]

According to Detective Beal they had already been going on the trapping routes for an hour before the visit to Mike's father. I do find it strange he would go inside with the little girl, but Diana would stay behind in the car. But my real point is, if Diana was still alive according to the unknown killer theory, Diana could also still be alive according to the Mike did it theory, so asking why he didn't drop Crystal off during that visit is kind of irrelevant. He hadn't yet planned on disappearing and abandoning his child or maybe even killing Diana.

If Mike dropped Crystal off at K-mart to make people believe someone else was responsible, he may have also wanted for his body not to be found. Or maybe he tried to hide ftom authorities in the thick bush and died from exposure. It's difficult to say with so little of his remains left.

I personally find it less likely the killer went back later to dump his body, I just don't see the point. I think if Mike was murdered, the killer took him there and buried him in a shallow grave. Although I do wonder why he would decide to take Mike to a place a mile away. Taking the woman to a different spot in order to rape her seems more typical.

[Stratego]

Originally Posted by freakbook

Huh? I didn't know that. Then touche, Stratego is correct that the body was simply missed and the remains were scattered by scavengers. My apologies, Stratego.

Lol, don't be silly. No need for that.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Stratego

If Mike dropped Crystal off at K-mart to make people believe someone else was responsible, he may have also wanted for his body not to be found. Or maybe he tried to hide ftom authorities in the thick bush and died from exposure. It's difficult to say with so little of his remains left.

I personally find it less likely the killer went back later to dump his body, I just don't see the point. I think if Mike was murdered, the killer took him there and buried him in a shallow grave. Although I do wonder why he would decide to take Mike to a place a mile away. Taking the woman to a different spot in order to rape her seems more typical.

Your logic about why Mike dropped Crystal off at Kmart contains a inconsistency.

If Mike dropped Crystal off at Kmart so people wouldn't suspect that he was the killer, then he did a terrible job.

Having 18 stab wounds in her chest, a envelope with his handwriting that reads "I love you, Diana" and currently had a restraining order against him at the time did the complete exact opposite of your reason as to why he dropped Crystal off at Kmart.

It makes more sense that he was killed and hidden so he could take the wrap for the murder(s), rather than hiding himself and then killing himself so people think someone else did it, despite all the evidence pointing towards him at the scene

[Stratego]

Going back to his father's place to drop her off out of nowhere right before his own disappearance would make him look way more suspicious.

The restraining order was already in place before their deaths, so nothing he could've done about that. And we don't know how old that note was or what its meaning was. I'm not suggesting he had some genius thought-out plan to get away with murder. It would be the opposite, I think. He killed her in the heat of passion and then pondered how to get out of that situation. He didn't want his father to get suspicious, so he dropped Crystal off at Kmart. Then he went back to the woods, perhaps still unsure about what to do.
I think he may have felt really distressed, perhaps regretting what he had done, but not wanting to take responsibility for it either.

I don't really see the point of an unknown killer trying to frame Mike, especially if he's also the serial killer who killed the other couples and did not create red herrings before. It's not like he would've known about all the personal issues going on between Mike and Diana.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Stratego

I don't really see the point of an unknown killer trying to frame Mike, especially if he's also the serial killer who killed the other couples and did not create red herrings before. It's not like he would've known about all the personal issues going on between Mike and Diana.

If they find Riemer's body shortly after finding Diana's with no sign of a murder weapon (which is what they essentially found in 2011 but had some of his bones missing), how would he have been a suspect at that point? Riemer's father said he carried a .22 with him when he was checking his traps. It wasn't found with his remains. IMO, it's possible that after killing him, someone could have used the .22 to coerce Diana into cooperating.

[Stratego]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

If they find Riemer's body shortly after finding Diana's with no sign of a murder weapon (which is what they essentially found in 2011 but had some of his bones missing), how would he have been a suspect at that point? Riemer's father said he carried a .22 with him when he was checking his traps. It wasn't found with his remains. IMO, it's possible that after killing him, someone could have used the .22 to coerce Diana into cooperating.

Right, that's a point that would argue against a killer trying to frame Mike. Do you think he would need Mike's gun to coerce Diana, though? Wouldn't he most likely have a gun as well since he was able to kill Mike?

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Stratego

Right, that's a point that would argue against a killer trying to frame Mike. Do you think he would need Mike's gun to coerce Diana, though? Wouldn't he most likely have a gun as well since he was able to kill Mike?

Not necessarily. There were no visible gunshot wounds found on Riemer's remains. He could have been stabbed to death like Diana. What's weird to me is that the detective is saying that Riemer could have been injured where Diana was found and he could have walked the distance to where his remains were found "easily". Knowing that Diana was bound with her hands behind her back and had a tube sock tied around her neck, if the working theory is that Riemer killed Diana in a fit of rage, who would have been able to mortally wound him at the site where Diana was found? And if he dropped Crystal off at the K-Mart, and then drove back to where he killed Diana to commit suicide, why wander away from her body?