Man, Kirk Cameron really damaged the show (from the E! True Hollywood Story)

[Mr. Television]

Originally Posted by MacLeaper

Candace Cameron Bure has accepted Jesus Christ as her Savior, if that's what you mean. I don't know that she's been busy shoving her beliefs down anyone's throat or anything though. That's a funny idiom though that can be rather hard to define, as it seems different people have different definitions of that.


And as I said in an earlier post, Kirk Cameron has since admitted that he did become overzealous when he first asked Jesus to be his Savior- a mistake that many new Christians fall into. All of sudden, the entire universe is different and through a relationship with Christ, you see things from His standard and His point of view as He reveals in His Word- The Holy Bible.
And with an eagerness and excitement for his newfound salvation in Christ, Kirk plunged forward and made some unfair accusations, that I'm not entirely sure of the validity of [but from what I've heard it sounds like it was not true or at least much exaggerated]. And being the star of the show, he definitely had sway and pull on the direction of the show and he was very concerned that the show portray a good and Godly image and provide children and families watching with a positive message and positive role models - something that television seems to be sorely lacking today, in my opinion. So I don't think that's a bad goal- it's a very noble goal, in fact. However, though the producers and writers and cast did try to work with him as best they could, (and I think some people involved may have wound up leaving or perhaps they were fired- I'm not sure of all the specifics right now) I can understand how Kirk may have alienated some people though that was not his intention.
But as he and the main cast have said in an interview on Larry King Live and on the Season 1 DVD cast reunion special, this issue has been addressed by them and Kirk has apologized to them all and they have forgiven him and moved on from this issue. I really think fans of Growing Pains should too.

Some people just won't let it go. There were people complaining when Kirk brought up God when he was trying to get in touch with Andrew Koenig when he had disappeared and before he died.


Kirk made some mistakes and he's apologized for them. In the end GP is just a tv show. It isn't that important in the grand scheme of life. The show was going to JTS at some point. All shows do. It was still an entertaining show even at the end. I've seen many shows finish worse than what GP did.

[Sitcom Collector]

Never watched the show, but I saw Cameron in an interview once say that Catholics are not Christians.
A wise old (Protestant) preacher years ago said: "if your religion is more about what you are against, than what you are for, you need to take a hard look at what 'religion' you are into"

[ThomasE]

Originally Posted by MacLeaper

The difference for Christians in this regard is that while it is all acting, you're still doing the actions. Because frankly I do wonder at people that I know have professed to be Christians but don't seem to have an issue with swearing. It may just be for a role in a production, but it's still using words that I would never normally use and that I know God says are wrong. It's the same with portraying scenes of adultery, murder, lying or anything else God says is wrong. It can be a tricky line for Christian actors seeking to honor Christ.

Well, for me being an actor in the past and about to resume doing it again, I will say that I am a strong Christian. I don't have a problem with swearing to a degree. If its for a part in production, I'm fine with it. At the end of the day, I put away the character because that is not who I am. The actions that are done tell a story about a specific character and we must remember that. There have been times that I have requested for vulgar dialogue/profanity to be scaled back because my spirit did not have a peace about saying it.

These roles are portrayals and enactments. It doesn't mean its who the person really is. As for me, outside of acting, I do not swear. When people ride in my car or if they are in my home, I ask them to refrain from using those words. I tell them that my home and my car are the two places I don't have to hear the language if I don't want to. One foolish co-worker of mine tried to debate me about it in my own car as I was giving HIM A RIDE HOME. I cut it off and said it was not up for debate in here. LOL.

MacLeaper, I applaud your post and give you props for speaking up and doing it in such a kind and loving way. That is how it should be done.

[MacLeaper]

Thanks, ThomasE. I'm glad that it came across in a kind and loving manner as I definitely want that to be true of all I say and do. Thanks for offering a Christian actor's perspective too. I know it can be hard sometimes to get the right roles that are true to our Biblical beliefs. I hope you have much success in venturing into acting again and I trust God will grant you some great roles where you can be a positive voice- we certainly could always use more on TV and the movies.

[ThomasE]

Originally Posted by MacLeaper

Thanks, ThomasE. I'm glad that it came across in a kind and loving manner as I definitely want that to be true of all I say and do. Thanks for offering a Christian actor's perspective too. I know it can be hard sometimes to get the right roles that are true to our Biblical beliefs. I hope you have much success in venturing into acting again and I trust God will grant you some great roles where you can be a positive voice- we certainly could always use more on TV and the movies.

I know. Thanks for the love. I'll tell you this much, I will not be doing reality TV. I work in production behind the scenes and see how these people are and some producers are pulling the strings. Yet, the talent doesn't care because they want to be noticed and discovered.

[Mr. Television]

Originally Posted by ThomasE

I know. Thanks for the love. I'll tell you this much, I will not be doing reality TV. I work in production behind the scenes and see how these people are and some producers are pulling the strings. Yet, the talent doesn't care because they want to be noticed and discovered.

fake reality. lol I don't know how people can watch that stuff.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by MacLeaper

Candace Cameron Bure has accepted Jesus Christ as her Savior, if that's what you mean. I don't know that she's been busy shoving her beliefs down anyone's throat or anything though. That's a funny idiom though that can be rather hard to define, as it seems different people have different definitions of that.


And as I said in an earlier post, Kirk Cameron has since admitted that he did become overzealous when he first asked Jesus to be his Savior- a mistake that many new Christians fall into. All of sudden, the entire universe is different and through a relationship with Christ, you see things from His standard and His point of view as He reveals in His Word- The Holy Bible.
And with an eagerness and excitement for his newfound salvation in Christ, Kirk plunged forward and made some unfair accusations, that I'm not entirely sure of the validity of [but from what I've heard it sounds like it was not true or at least much exaggerated]. And being the star of the show, he definitely had sway and pull on the direction of the show and he was very concerned that the show portray a good and Godly image and provide children and families watching with a positive message and positive role models - something that television seems to be sorely lacking today, in my opinion. So I don't think that's a bad goal- it's a very noble goal, in fact. However, though the producers and writers and cast did try to work with him as best they could, (and I think some people involved may have wound up leaving or perhaps they were fired- I'm not sure of all the specifics right now) I can understand how Kirk may have alienated some people though that was not his intention.
But as he and the main cast have said in an interview on Larry King Live and on the Season 1 DVD cast reunion special, this issue has been addressed by them and Kirk has apologized to them all and they have forgiven him and moved on from this issue. I really think fans of Growing Pains should too.

My main question for Kirk Cameron is always this: if Jesus could forgive and hang out with Mary Magdalin, why couldn't he deal with the fact that she used to be a Playboy girl (Julie McCullough), hmm? If Kirk were truly a good Christian, he would have wanted her to have a good job, and opportunities for a nice life, outside Playboy. Couldn't he just be mature and accept Julie McCullough for who she was or maybe help (NOT push his beliefs on her, just be her friend). Instead, he ruined he career, and really gave her no choice, but to be the Playboy girl.

[ThomasE]

Originally Posted by TMC

My main question for Kirk Cameron is always this: if Jesus could forgive and hang out with Mary Magdalin, why couldn't he deal with the fact that she used to be a Playboy girl (Julie McCullough), hmm? If Kirk were truly a good Christian, he would have wanted her to have a good job, and opportunities for a nice life, outside Playboy. Couldn't he just be mature and accept Julie McCullough for who she was or maybe help (NOT push his beliefs on her, just be her friend). Instead, he ruined he career, and really gave her no choice, but to be the Playboy girl.

However, he is not the only one. There are other new, gung ho born again Christians that do the same thing. They get overzealous. Everyone Christian or non Christian makes mistakes. I am sure that he knows better by now.

[TMC]

Don't get me wrong, I think Kirk Cameron was (and still is) a colossal jerk and egomaniac (who pretty much acted like his doo-doo didn't stink) once he had his big "awakening". The way that he treated Julie McCullough was extremely petty and out of line.

With that being said, there were many other factors that were perhaps working against Growing Pains namely:
*Tracey Gold's anorexia.

*Jeremy Miller hitting puberty and simply no longer being a charmingly cute kid (instead being an awkward, gawky, lumbering dweeb w/ a goofy haircut).

*The departure of Mike's sidekick Boner, which forced Mike (even w/o Kirk Cameron's "awakening") to "grow up" a little.

*The acceleration of Chrissy's age, who in return, became extremely annoying once Ashley Johnson took on the role

*The simple fact that the kids (or at least, Mike and Carol), by the time that Growing Pains went off the air were getting to the age in which they were adults and therefore, could take care of themselves.

*Family sitcoms like Growing Pains arguably not "working anymore" (e.g. shows in which both parents are successful professionals) in the face of edgier more blue collar family shows like Roseanne, Married...with Children, and The Simpsons.

[king of comedy]

Originally Posted by TMC

Don't get me wrong, I think Kirk Cameron was (and still is) a colossal jerk and egomaniac (who pretty much acted like his doo-doo didn't stink) once he had his big "awakening". The way that he treated Julie McCullough was extremely petty and out of line.

With that being said, there were many other factors that were perhaps working against Growing Pains namely:
*Tracey Gold's anorexia.

*Jeremy Miller hitting puberty and simply no longer being a charmingly cute kid (instead being an awkward, gawky, lumbering dweeb w/ a goofy haircut).

*The departure of Mike's sidekick Boner, which forced Mike (even w/o Kirk Cameron's "awakening") to "grow up" a little.

*The acceleration of Chrissy's age, who in return, became extremely annoying once Ashley Johnson took on the role

*The simple fact that the kids (or at least, Mike and Carol), by the time that Growing Pains went off the air were getting to the age in which they were adults and therefore, could take care of themselves.

*Family sitcoms like Growing Pains arguably not "working anymore" (e.g. shows in which both parents are successful professionals) in the face of edgier more blue collar family shows like Roseanne, Married...with Children, and The Simpsons.

You are right on everything.

[DJM77]

I don't know how Julie McCullough feels about Kirk Cameron now, but when The E True Hollywood Story aired it seemed like she really wanted to give him a groin pain. Sorry, bad joke.

[TMC]

Kirk Cameron when you get right down to it, really seemed to be more interested or concerned w/ making sure the storylines were as inoffensive as remotely possible than whether or not it's seriously a case of effective storytelling. The episode from the second season in which Mike, Eddie and Boner are pressured into snorting cocaine at a party is a good example of presenting a moral dilemma that doesn't necessarily depict Mike as a saint, the smartest guy in the room or ultimate moral authority.

Full House featuring Kirk's little sister, Candace was another show that faced such a problem (especially later on when it became "The Michelle Show"). Full House just like the latter portrayal of Mike, seemed to be first and foremost, invested on contriving an excuse to deliver their skewed view of wisdom instead of actually representing true life.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Ishqs

Well, I agree that calling them "pornographers" might be a little overboard, but at the same time it seems that some of the things we take for granted as being "normal sitcom humor" could be more damaging...for example, the fat jokes on Carol and its effect on Tracey Gold.

Allison Tolman urges TV writers to "take the jokes about weight out of your scripts"

"I promise they aren’t funny. And even if they were, they won’t hold up well. And even if they did, they’re unkind-either to your characters and actors or someone in your audience or crew. It’s not worth it," says the veteran Fargo and Why Women Kill actress in a lengthy Twitter thread posted Tuesday afternoon. "Jokes about weight don’t have to just be jokes about a characters body," she tweeted, adding: "And when you’re ready, begin to wrap your mind around removing body descriptors from your scripts altogether, including character descriptions and the names of minor roles. I’m not saying you shouldn’t use adjectives. But please don’t say 'Linda- the main character’s cousin, thin and witty' unless there’s an actual reason Linda needs to be thin. And please don’t say 'Fat Lady In Theater' when you mean 'Annoying Lady In Theater'. Oh! And also, people think it’s okay if they’re using descriptors for small bodies, because they’re considered complimentary. Like, you’re auditioning for 'Skinny Intern', congratulations! But do you see THAT IS THE EXACT POINT AND SURELY YOU UNDERSTAND HOW WEIRD THAT IS. The audience only knows the values you assign to different body types if you have characters saying lines about them. But the rest of your script? That’s your crew, writers room, everyone in the office, executives, creative partners- all the people helping you make your show."

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by TMC

Allison Tolman urges TV writers to "take the jokes about weight out of your scripts"

"I promise they aren’t funny. And even if they were, they won’t hold up well. And even if they did, they’re unkind-either to your characters and actors or someone in your audience or crew. It’s not worth it," says the veteran Fargo and Why Women Kill actress in a lengthy Twitter thread posted Tuesday afternoon. "Jokes about weight don’t have to just be jokes about a characters body," she tweeted, adding: "And when you’re ready, begin to wrap your mind around removing body descriptors from your scripts altogether, including character descriptions and the names of minor roles. I’m not saying you shouldn’t use adjectives. But please don’t say 'Linda- the main character’s cousin, thin and witty' unless there’s an actual reason Linda needs to be thin. And please don’t say 'Fat Lady In Theater' when you mean 'Annoying Lady In Theater'. Oh! And also, people think it’s okay if they’re using descriptors for small bodies, because they’re considered complimentary. Like, you’re auditioning for 'Skinny Intern', congratulations! But do you see THAT IS THE EXACT POINT AND SURELY YOU UNDERSTAND HOW WEIRD THAT IS. The audience only knows the values you assign to different body types if you have characters saying lines about them. But the rest of your script? That’s your crew, writers room, everyone in the office, executives, creative partners- all the people helping you make your show."

It would have been so much better for Tracey Gold if they hadn't made constant fat jokes. I think one episode, the episode where she still sees herself as a fat girl in overalls, would have been enough. Instead, the fat jokes went on for years.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by angel676

What trouble or damage did Kirk Cameron
cause for the show?

One has to imagine or figure that it's difficult if not downright impossible, to write good material when people with agendas like Kirk's are breathing down one's neck. And Kirk Cameron and his new found sanctimoniousness undoubtedly made the writing difficult. It bears repeating: he had Julie McCullough fired over her Playboy shoot.