Which character suffered from the worst derailment in the later years

[TMC]

Mona - Sometime around the sixth season, her character develops an unappealingly hard edge. She shifts from being playful with her ribbing of Angela to becoming decidedly more petty, obnoxious, and mean-spirited. Before all of this, it seemed like Mona's sarcasm and biting wit were tempered by the genuine love and respect she had for her daughter and grandson.

Tony became a whiny, wimpy dishrag of a person. He basically lost his macho, blue collar, tough guy characteristic for the most part and instead became an emasculated yuppie.

Samantha - By Season 7, Sam becomes a rude and arrogant girl who suddenly has nothing but disdain for both Tony and Angela (not to mention a horrific taste in men).

Jonathan - Also by Season 7, he practically went from being a sweet, nerdy kid to a selfish and mean teenager, who either put Samantha down or made a nasty remark about something. Plus, it was unintentionally laughable if not downright uncomfortable on the writers' part to try to depict Jonathan as some sort of girl-crazy horndog when Danny Pinataro obviously couldn't pull it off.

Angela may have been the only one of the main cast whose character didn't get worse in the later seasons. Whereas Tony by the time that he went back to college, became this whiny, needy person, Angela you could argue, became much more confident.

[peteemory]

Originally Posted by TMC

Mona - Sometime around the sixth season, her character develops an unappealingly hard edge. She shifts from being playful with her ribbing of Angela to becoming decidedly more petty, obnoxious, and mean-spirited. Before all of this, it seemed like Mona's sarcasm and biting wit was tempered by the genuine love and respect she had for her daughter and grandson.

Tony became a whiny, wimpy dishrag of a person. He basically lost his macho, blue collar, tough guy characteristic for the most part and instead became an emasculated yuppie.

Samantha - By Season 7, Sam becomes a rude and arrogant girl who suddenly has nothing but disdain for both Tony and Angela (not to mention a horrific taste in men).

Jonathan - Also by Season 7, he practically went from being a sweet, nerdy kid to selfish and mean teenager, who either put Samantha down or made a nasty remark about something. Plus, it was unintentionally laughable if not downright uncomfortable on the writers' part to try to depict Jonathan as some sort of girl-crazy horndog when Danny Pinataro obviously couldn't pull it off.

Angela may have been the only one of the main cast whose character didn't get worse in the later seasons. Whereas Tony by the time that he went back to college, became this whiny, needy person, Angela you could argue, became much more confident.

All of your assessments are spot on TMC. The writing on the show had devolved so badly by the last 2-3 seasons that all the characters (save Angela) are nearly unrecognizable from their initial selves. Strange the iterations that TV series often undergo...the very qualities that make characters likable are often lost and replaced by annoying paradies of actual humans. Why that is I'll never know, but I'll surmise that perhaps the original writers move on to bigger and better opportunities and are replaced by hacks who've gotten their jobs due to nepotism. I may be wrong, but that's the only reason I can imagine. That said, watching late-era WTB episodes nearly always puts me in a melancholy mood. The show was such a delight early on, such a drag later.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by peteemory

All of your assessments are spot on TMC. The writing on the show had devolved so badly by the last 2-3 seasons that all the characters (save Angela) are nearly unrecognizable from their initial selves. Strange the iterations that TV series often undergo...the very qualities that make characters likable are often lost and replaced by annoying paradies of actual humans. Why that is I'll never know, but I'll surmise that perhaps the original writers move on to bigger and better opportunities and are replaced by hacks who've gotten their jobs due to nepotism. I may be wrong, but that's the only reason I can imagine. That said, watching late-era WTB episodes nearly always puts me in a melancholy mood. The show was such a delight early on, such a drag later.

I'll admit though that there was one moment from the last few seasons that made me chuckle out loud. It's the episode from the last season where Sam poses as Al's wife to help him get an apartment.

Sam puts on this short blonde wig that makes her look like Audrey from Little Shop of Horrors. Later on, Tony in frustration, makes an offhand comment about his daughter next putting on a pair of dreadlocks and going as Whoopi Goldberg.

I guess, hearing a flustered acting Tony Danza say a very unique sounding name like "Whoopi Goldberg" in that very distinctive voice of his and how random the comment was, makes it funny. I do wonder if he ab-libbed that or that was actually in the script.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by peteemory

All of your assessments are spot on TMC. The writing on the show had devolved so badly by the last 2-3 seasons that all the characters (save Angela) are nearly unrecognizable from their initial selves. Strange the iterations that TV series often undergo...the very qualities that make characters likable are often lost and replaced by annoying paradies of actual humans. Why that is I'll never know, but I'll surmise that perhaps the original writers move on to bigger and better opportunities and are replaced by hacks who've gotten their jobs due to nepotism. I may be wrong, but that's the only reason I can imagine. That said, watching late-era WTB episodes nearly always puts me in a melancholy mood. The show was such a delight early on, such a drag later.

Speaking of Angela...Why Angela Bower Was the Best Character on Who’s The Boss.

Another reason for Angela being the best character is that she was essentially the glue that held everyone together since Tony, for all his charm and wit and wisdom gleaned from his own experience, was still a big kid sometimes and needed a bit of polishing to his own character. The kids had a ton of development that needed to happen, and Mona, well, Mona was kind of like a force of nature that did her own thing and let others worry about the fallout. Angela had the unenviable task of being the person that was there to pick up the pieces and put them back together sometimes or simply put her foot down and be the taskmaster if she really had to. Inside the home, she wasn’t always the best at this, but she did what she could and often managed to get some result as it snapped the others back into focus. What it all comes down to is that this was a team effort when talking about this show and without everyone doing their part it would have been impossible for the whole thing to work.

[Novera]

Wow these are all spot on and accurate, especially Mona. She would insult Angela early on in the series, but like you pointed out, you could always sense it came from a place of love or concern. Like as a made up example, early in the series she might have said "Angela that dress makes you look like the host of HEE HAW" then audience laughs... but then she would walk over to her and in a very soft gentle voice say something like "You don't need all these bells and whistles to impress a man, if he doesn't love you for who you are...." etc. etc.

But in the last few seasons she just sounds like a bully mean girl.

I have a feeling the writers started to sense that pop culture was moving away from wholesome family shows and the 90s would be more edgy. I imagine they were watching Roseanne shoot to #2 in ratings by being crass at times and thought that was the way out of their ratings slump.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Novera

Wow these are all spot on and accurate, especially Mona. She would insult Angela early on in the series, but like you pointed out, you could always sense it came from a place of love or concern. Like as a made up example, early in the series she might have said "Angela that dress makes you look like the host of HEE HAW" then audience laughs... but then she would walk over to her and in a very soft gentle voice say something like "You don't need all these bells and whistles to impress a man, if he doesn't love you for who you are...." etc. etc.

But in the last few seasons she just sounds like a bully mean girl.

I have a feeling the writers started to sense that pop culture was moving away from wholesome family shows and the 90s would be more edgy. I imagine they were watching Roseanne shoot to #2 in ratings by being crass at times and thought that was the way out of their ratings slump.

I of course, don't absolutely know for sure if Roseanne had any direct influence on the change in tone on Who's the Boss? Several people online have suggested or speculated that Mona's "change" started right around the fifth or sixth season. Those years (1988-90), do overlap with the launch of Roseanne, which first came on the air in the fall of 1988.

Usually, long running sitcoms are guilty of a trope called Flanderization. This is defined as being "The act of taking a single (often minor) action or trait of a character within a work and exaggerating it more and more over time until it completely consumes the character. Most always, the trait/action becomes completely outlandish and it becomes their defining characteristic."

Mona was without a shadow of a doubt, a victim of "Flanderization". Mona was admittedly though, the only main character on Who's the Boss? who had something of an "edge" to her. I guess Tony being from "the mean streets" of Brooklyn had an edge to him too, but Tony unlike Mona, always felt like a real person.

But still, Mona herself, in the earlier years, still seemed more like the fun, free-spirited, cool old lady that you wanted to hang around. Those last few years are a slog because you're often times thinking and wondering, why doesn't Angela boot this crotchety, miserable, crusty old bat from her house and office space if she's just going to do nothing but insult and put her down?

[TMC]

Originally Posted by peteemory

All of your assessments are spot on TMC. The writing on the show had devolved so badly by the last 2-3 seasons that all the characters (save Angela) are nearly unrecognizable from their initial selves. Strange the iterations that TV series often undergo...the very qualities that make characters likable are often lost and replaced by annoying parodies of actual humans. Why that is I'll never know, but I'll surmise that perhaps the original writers move on to bigger and better opportunities and are replaced by hacks who've gotten their jobs due to nepotism. I may be wrong, but that's the only reason I can imagine. That said, watching late-era WTB episodes nearly always puts me in a melancholy mood. The show was such a delight early on, such a drag later.

I've said elsewhere that when Alyssa Milano sports her new hairstyle in the "Supermom Burnout" episode in Season 6, that was the first true indicator that Who's the Boss? was going downhill. I wouldn't necessarily say that was absolutely the "jump the shark" moment but it was something that you can easily pinpoint when the show is going to be radically "different" going forward. But it was also in middle of Season 6 that they added the dreaded saxophone to the "Brand New Life" theme.

[Novera]

Originally Posted by TMC

I've said elsewhere that when Alyssa Milano sports her new hairstyle in the "Supermom Burnout" episode in Season 6, that was the the first true indicator that Who's the Boss? was going hill. ..

I love reading things like this, because it's exactly how I felt re-watching the series. Why is her hair jet black like Elvira? I don't remember anyone having that haircut other than the more bookish/dowdy girls in my school, I wonder if they did that intentionally? Reduce her sex appeal?

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Novera

I love reading things like this, because it's exactly how I felt re-watching the series. Why is her hair jet black like Elvira? I don't remember anyone having that haircut other than the more bookish/dowdy girls in my school, I wonder if they did that intentionally? Reduce her sex appeal?

I find it awfully coincidental that The Little Mermaid was first released in the United States on November 13, 1989. The "Supermom Burnout" episode was first broadcast on ABC on November 14, 1989. Alyssa Milano with her hairstyle at the start of Season 6 and all through Season 5 quite literally, looks like Ariel, for whom Disney modeled her appearance after Alyssa.



I've said numerous times already, that Alyssa was probably at her most beautiful as Samantha Micelli during Season 5-early Season 6. And yeah, I kind of agree that her abrupt change in hairstyle may have reduced and toned down her sex appeal. Of course, I don't know if that was a deliberate or conscientious decision on Alyssa's and/or the network's part.

But she goes from having near jet black hair that's now shoulder length and with bangs half way into Season 6 to having a short wedge type of hairstyle at the start of Season 7. I think that Alyssa even cut her hair much shorter (think of her hairstyle in Double Dragon but darker) as Season 7 went on. So she does you could say, looks more unassuming and less head turning than she did when she sported really long, thick, perfectly coifed, medium brown hair.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by peteemory

All of your assessments are spot on TMC. The writing on the show had devolved so badly by the last 2-3 seasons that all the characters (save Angela) are nearly unrecognizable from their initial selves. Strange the iterations that TV series often undergo...the very qualities that make characters likable are often lost and replaced by annoying paradies of actual humans. Why that is I'll never know, but I'll surmise that perhaps the original writers move on to bigger and better opportunities and are replaced by hacks who've gotten their jobs due to nepotism. I may be wrong, but that's the only reason I can imagine. That said, watching late-era WTB episodes nearly always puts me in a melancholy mood. The show was such a delight early on, such a drag later.

Angela was probably, especially towards the end, the closest thing that the show had to a moral center, voice of reason, and straight-person. The show seemed to get broader and cartoonish/farcical in the last two or so seasons. Even Tony started getting really goofy and becoming something of an unappealing and unlikable caricature in those last few seasons.

I don't know how to properly or fully explain it other than Tony became really hyper and a bit of a whiny spaz. I don't know if that's simply due to the writing or the way that Tony Danza was directed. But his character is particularly, at his worse during Season 7 (the "Billy Season"). It just felt like they were trying way too hard to be funny.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Novera

I love reading things like this, because it's exactly how I felt re-watching the series. Why is her hair jet black like Elvira? I don't remember anyone having that haircut other than the more bookish/dowdy girls in my school, I wonder if they did that intentionally? Reduce her sex appeal?

Come to think of it, Alyssa Milano with the jet black hair and bangs kind of reminds me of that Charmed episode where a spell turns her character, Phoebe into her high school persona and she goes to her own high school reunion looking like this:


In comparison, here's Alyssa from the latter portion of Season 6 of Who's the Boss?:

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Novera

Wow these are all spot on and accurate, especially Mona. She would insult Angela early on in the series, but like you pointed out, you could always sense it came from a place of love or concern. Like as a made up example, early in the series she might have said "Angela that dress makes you look like the host of HEE HAW" then audience laughs... but then she would walk over to her and in a very soft gentle voice say something like "You don't need all these bells and whistles to impress a man, if he doesn't love you for who you are...." etc. etc.

But in the last few seasons she just sounds like a bully mean girl.

I have a feeling the writers started to sense that pop culture was moving away from wholesome family shows and the 90s would be more edgy. I imagine they were watching Roseanne shoot to #2 in ratings by being crass at times and thought that was the way out of their ratings slump.

Who's the Boss? I want to believe, also had a new set of writers going into the final two seasons. This is according to IMDb:

• Clay Graham ... (written by) (19 episodes, 1987-1992)
• Gene Braunstein ... (written by) (16 episodes, 1988-1992)
• Danny Kallis ... (written by) (14 episodes, 1988-1992)
• Linda Teverbaugh ... (written by) (9 episodes, 1990-1992)
• Michael Teverbaugh ... (written by) (9 episodes, 1990-1992)
• Bob Rosenfarb ... (written by) (11 episodes, 1990-1992)
• Daniel Palladino ... (written by) (10 episodes, 1989-1991)
• Phil Doran ... (written by) (10 episodes, 1991-1992)
• Michele J. Wolff ... (written by) (6 episodes, 1991-1992)
• Richard Albrecht ... (written by) (4 episodes, 1989-1991)
• Casey Keller ... (written by) (4 episodes, 1989-1991)
• Mark Fink ... (written by) (3 episodes, 1992)
• Adam I. Lapidus ... (written by) (2 episodes, 1990-1992)
• Deborah Leschin ... (written by) (2 episodes, 1990-1991)
• Barry Vigon ... (written by) (2 episodes, 1990-1991)
• Mona Marshall ... (written by) (1 episode, 1991)
• Carol Starr Schneider ... (written by) (1 episode, 1991)

The new set of writers could also explain a bit why there were some glaring inconsistences and contradictions, particularly in relation to Tony Micelli's character.

IMDb also lists the following for the final two seasons (1990-1992):

• Gene Braunstein ... co-producer / producer (49 episodes, 1990-1992)
• Phil Doran ... co-executive producer (49 episodes, 1990-1992)
• Clay Graham ... supervising producer / producer (49 episodes, 1990-1992)
• Daniel Palladino ... co-producer (2 episodes, 1990-1991)

Also, Tony Singletary succeeded Asaad Kelada as the primary director for those final two seasons.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by peteemory

All of your assessments are spot on TMC. The writing on the show had devolved so badly by the last 2-3 seasons that all the characters (save Angela) are nearly unrecognizable from their initial selves. Strange the iterations that TV series often undergo...the very qualities that make characters likable are often lost and replaced by annoying paradies of actual humans. Why that is I'll never know, but I'll surmise that perhaps the original writers move on to bigger and better opportunities and are replaced by hacks who've gotten their jobs due to nepotism. I may be wrong, but that's the only reason I can imagine. That said, watching late-era WTB episodes nearly always puts me in a melancholy mood. The show was such a delight early on, such a drag later.

In Tony's case, I'm starting to wonder if the problem was as much on Tony Danza the actor as it was for the way that Tony Micelli the character was written. Let me explain for a moment. I recently read a comment from somebody who came to conclusion that Who's the Boss? would be a hard series to watch in full due to Tony Danza's hammy performance.

Tony often found himself in a habit of mugging, gesticulating, emoting, frequently looking towards the audience. Maybe the issue with Tony Danza is that on WTB, he seemed overly conscious of the audience's presence and delivered every line with this childlike enthusiasm to try and get a reaction.

While that may have been endearing at the time, it depending on who you ask, hasn't aged too well when compared to the more subtle and nuanced performances as seen in the British version, The Upper Hand.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Novera

Wow these are all spot on and accurate, especially Mona. She would insult Angela early on in the series, but like you pointed out, you could always sense it came from a place of love or concern. Like as a made up example, early in the series she might have said "Angela that dress makes you look like the host of HEE HAW" then audience laughs... but then she would walk over to her and in a very soft gentle voice say something like "You don't need all these bells and whistles to impress a man, if he doesn't love you for who you are...." etc. etc.

But in the last few seasons she just sounds like a bully mean girl.

I have a feeling the writers started to sense that pop culture was moving away from wholesome family shows and the 90s would be more edgy. I imagine they were watching Roseanne shoot to #2 in ratings by being crass at times and thought that was the way out of their ratings slump.

The "Working Girls" episode from Season 5 can be sighted as the real beginning of the utter destruction of Mona's character.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Novera

Wow these are all spot on and accurate, especially Mona. She would insult Angela early on in the series, but like you pointed out, you could always sense it came from a place of love or concern. Like as a made up example, early in the series she might have said "Angela that dress makes you look like the host of HEE HAW" then audience laughs... but then she would walk over to her and in a very soft gentle voice say something like "You don't need all these bells and whistles to impress a man, if he doesn't love you for who you are...." etc. etc.

But in the last few seasons she just sounds like a bully mean girl.

I have a feeling the writers started to sense that pop culture was moving away from wholesome family shows and the 90s would be more edgy. I imagine they were watching Roseanne shoot to #2 in ratings by being crass at times and thought that was the way out of their ratings slump.

There was this one episode from the final season (called "Who's the Boss?"), where Angela, Mona, and Tony are in the living room. And when if I remember correctly, Angela talks about being a ballerina in her youth, Mona just goes on and on about how fat Angela was as a kid and how much of a loser she was. The whole scene was extremely mean-spirited (especially since Angela didn't snipe back at Mona) and just made Mona out to be this cruel, unfeeling, and uncaring person. And plus, what exactly is supposed to be the punchline other than how big of a loser Angela was as a kid?