Why isn't Cheers as remembered in quite the same way as other shows

[TMC]

I never thought about this until watching this video retrospective. Glen Charles, one of the creators believes that he sees a lot of Seinfeld's influence on sitcoms now than he does with Cheers.

The video does argue that while Cheers in itself, did establish the "will they, won't they" dynamic with Sam and Diane and season long arcs in a sitcom, Cheers hasn't left quite a mark in the minds of audiences in the way that some of its contemporaries such as Seinfeld or The Simpsons have.

José, the producer of the video believes that Cheers might not be as remembered or influential these days because it was show that provided a safe place to seek refuge from the world. But how long will it be before that place traps you from that world and leaves you without any opportunity to grow? To put it in another way, it was a nice place to hang out, but not a place where you could stay forever.

[Alan Brady's Hair]

I think one negative for Cheers longevity is that it changes in tone abruptly, so that I think it has fewer fans who stick with it through a full syndication cycle.

It does seem to.be one of the few live-audience shows that have the approval of the no laugh track crowd, but I'm not sure how many of them have actually seen the show.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Alan Brady's Hair

I think one negative for Cheers longevity is that it changes in tone abruptly, so that I think it has fewer fans who stick with it through a full syndication cycle.

It does seem to.be one of the few live-audience shows that have the approval of the no laugh track crowd, but I'm not sure how many of them have actually seen the show.

I naturally have to assume that Cheers is a problematic show to fully syndicate because it has two very distinctive eras: The Diane era with Shelley Long (Seasons 1-5) and the Rebecca era with Kirstie Alley (Seasons 6-11). It's one thing to watch the show during its original run on NBC. The "Rebecca episodes" you could say, are particularly part of its own show. And thus, there's going to be people who will say that the Diane era was better and there's going to be people who will argue that the Rebecca era was better.

And unless you've seen Shelley Long's exit episode and already know the backstory behind her character's departure, you're probably going to be lost if you randomly tune into a syndicated episode one day, and see Kirstie Alley as the female lead. Any show that has a hard narrative shift relatively early or in the middle of its run like that is going to be a challenge no matter what.

Also, I honestly don't know for sure if a show like Cheers could even work or make it on the air today. I've read comments elsewhere that that say that a sitcom that in essence, makes light of alcoholism (i.e. doesn't delve into the darker aspects like drunk driving and domestic abuse) for one thing, wouldn't fly so easily. Of course, Sam's struggles with alcohol were mentioned, but otherwise, many of the characters (Norm and Cliff in particular) were daily drinkers and much of the humor was about the consumption of alcohol.

Another problem that has been argued is that although women played a major role in Cheers, it was usually from a subordinate position. So if Cheers was being made today, it would have to change some of the male characters to women (and that would seriously alter the narrative) and the women’s roles would have to be stronger than they were in the original series. But that would take a great deal of good writing to do that and keep the series funny. Plus, that level of writing seems to be somewhat scarce in today’s television.

[king of comedy]

Most of the characters were one dimensional. Carla was a big example.

[Mace Dolex]

It's of its time in the era it was broadcast, like Murphy Brown I don't think Cheers has aged well.

[Chocolate Moose]

Originally Posted by king of comedy

Most of the characters were one dimensional. Carla was a big example.

I don't think that was true. She was not only a waitress but a mom and a baseball and hockey fan.

[dakert]

I enjoyed the Sam and Diane dynamic. The show lost me when Frazier joined. I couldn't see myself hanging out at Cheers

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Moose

I don't think that was true. She was not only a waitress but a mom and a baseball and hockey fan.

I don't know if the characters were one-dimensional as much as they were victims of heavy Flanderization as it went on:

• Cliff Clavin's eccentricity and his helplessness with women. In the first few episodes, Cliff is having sex with women, including Carla's sister. Later in the series, Cliff suddenly becomes inept, and later becomes a virgin. Cliff also devolves from a reasonably knowledgable person in season 1 to a Know-Nothing Know-It-All. In the early episodes of the show, Cliff's storehouse of facts is sometimes a little off-topic or overly-detailed, but he's generally accurate and is regarded as a reliable source by the other bar patrons. By season two, his 'facts' are usually absurdly wrong (he seriously believes that "'DNA' is an acronym for the words 'Dames are Not Aggressive'), and he's seldom believed. In another very specific example of Flanderization, Cliff knows what iambic pentameter is in season one, snarking to Sam at a suggestion of an Elizabethan Poetry Night at Cheers: "I remember the night you were charged for practicing iambic pentameter without a license." But by season six, speaking of a poem he himself wrote, Cliff states: "It's written in iambic pentathlon with rhyming couplets, every couple of couplets."
• Carla's sociopathy goes from a good woman who is bitter to a sociopath who plays potentially lethal pranks. She softens a little in the late seasons.
• Sam suffered the most post-Diane, in which he went from ex-alcoholic who womanized with women to an amoral sex fiend whose alcoholism was almost never brought up. Seems he also became a complete man-child, who couldn't be serious for even a few seconds.
• Rebecca as well. At first seems to be a very respectable, and confident, business woman, who liked successful men like herself-finding Sam childish. Later when she first shows her vulnerable side with the situation with Drake, she starts to become more and more whiny about hating her life, and wanting to kill herself, acting bratty, as we hear in one episode her father still gives her an allowance, and a complete gold-digger with no self-esteem, and openly going after some guys just because they have money. The show's writers have commented that this was quite deliberate, as it was funnier, and Kirstie Alley was so good a playing a neurotic wreck.

[TMC]

TV Tropes regards Cheers as being a victim of "Mainstream Obscurity":

Cheers was and still is considered to be one of the best sitcoms ever made. However, aside from the much-lauded pilot, the iconic finale, and a few episodes, most notably the episode about Cliff appearing on Jeopardy, you will very seldom hear a lot of discussion about the show anymore. The show's fanbase isn't quite as active as many other sitcom fanbases like Seinfeld (itself quite suffering from this), Friends, or even Cheers' own spinoff Frasier. In fact, one could suggest that Frasier has supplanted Cheers in popularity and iconic status, as there are likely a number of people (especially from younger generations) who are unaware the two series are related.

[biffbronson]

I haven't watched the episodes in some time, but I have to question your statement that "much of the humor was about the consumption of alcohol." Could you please give an example?

A couple of guys sitting around having beers hardly qualifies as humor based on alcohol consumption, excessive or otherwise. As I recall, any drinking was more of a background thing as opposed to being a source of humor or making light of alcoholism in any way.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Mace Dolex

It's of its time in the era it was broadcast, like Murphy Brown I don't think Cheers has aged well.

Others have pointed out that Cheers ended in 1993, which was right before the start of wide spread internet usage. In comparison, Friends, which debuted on NBC over a year later, arrived at the boom of the internet and influenced a ton of millennials. Friends within itself, was probably one of the first shows let alone sitcoms, that was being discussed online from a soap opera perspective - continuing story and character development.

Cheers was more of a Gen X and baby boomer show, so it probably missed the window to have an explosion in “online” popularity with memes and what not. The characters on Cheers were also making references to the social norms that have changed drastically in the 40+ years since the first season in 1982.

There likely aren't many shows from pre-1995 that could hold on to the collective zeitgeist of pop culture of the internet. So it's within reason to believe that had Cheers lasted say, into 1998 like Seinfeld, it could have possibly, enjoyed a bigger following now.

Another possibility is that young adults simply aren’t as likely to go to bars or clubbing on a nightly or weekly basis as past generations. And if or when they actually go to bars, they probably aren't going to go to any like the one that was depicted on Cheers, which was a local, smaller, and friendly neighborhood kind of place. They would instead, likely gravitate towards more corporate, chain bars/restaurants like Buffalo Wild Wings.

A third possibility that I've read is that Cheers at the end of the day, really wasn't a show that was about anything. Cheers unlike say Friends or its spin-off, Frasier, was more of a show that was about smiles, not melancholy. To put it in another way, it was a long running show without sudden landings into "feelings" (see for example, Ross and Rachel on Friends) while building towards tear-soaked finales for the ages. The finale for Cheers was instead, more about quiet reflection instead of something that would make the audience go "awww".

[TMC]

Originally Posted by biffbronson

I haven't watched the episodes in some time, but I have to question your statement that "much of the humor was about the consumption of alcohol." Could you please give an example?

A couple of guys sitting around having beers hardly qualifies as humor based on alcohol consumption, excessive or otherwise. As I recall, any drinking was more of a background thing as opposed to being a source of humor or making light of alcoholism in any way.

This is what Ken Levine has to say:

On CHEERS, I can recall few, if any, scenes of someone actually being drunk at the bar. Were there rules or guidelines about this? If so, were they from the network or the creators?

I think everyone (the Charles Brothers, Jim Burrows, NBC, Paramount) were in agreement that the drinking had to be handled responsibly. No one ever drove home drunk. There were a few cases where cabs were called for homeward bound patrons.

The conceit with Norm was that he could hold his liquor. So we never played him drunk or with impaired judgment.

I want to say we never got laughs out of drunks at the bar but there was Al. A case can be made that he was just punch drunk, not alcohol drunk, but he sure acted like a tosspot.

Sam of course, was a former alcoholic and the message was delivered many times that you don’t solve your problems by drinking. And that goes for egg nog, by the way. The benefit people got from going to the CHEERS bar was the camaraderie and support they gained from each other. Remember, the theme is “where everyone knows your name” not “where fifty dollars will get you ****-faced”.

[biffbronson]

Okay, thanks. I don't even remember a character named "Al" (an old man?). I guess it's time to start watching again.

I think it's important to realize that the bar/pub setting provided a way to explore interactions of characters of diverse backgrounds -- whereas with series like Seinfeld, Caroline in the City, Mad About You, and Friends, the characters were living in similar or the same ways and generally had comparable socio-economic status. On Cheers, unusual one-time or limited app. characters could be dropped into the bar setting easily from outside the regular group (like Andy Andy).

This is why I think the bar was more of a means to development of script ideas, rather than a setting that exploited alcohol consumption related humor.

[Duster76]

A couple of points, this may not be a Cheers problem in particular but a larger problem that many 80's series have had in the syndication marketplace. Kate & Allie, Newhart, Perfect Strangers, 227, Family Ties to name a few are additional examples of series that have not done as well in reruns as might have been expected.

In addition, I wonder if the outcome of the Sam and Diane relationship might not have cast a shadow over the series, maybe not immediately damaging the relationship the series had with the audience but it might have had a negative long-term impact. That final scene with Diane walking up the stairs as Sam looks on and utters have a good life, and the imagined flash forward scene of the two of them as old people dancing to the Irving Berlin standard "What Will I Do" is a pretty powerful sequence. The heart of that series over the first 5 seasons is that relationship, it ended badly and at the end of the series when the production team had a chance to fix it, they didn't. That may have been a mistake that the fans of the series were not willing to forgive or forget.

[TMC]

I wonder if Cheers also suffers from the same issue as maybe, The Mary Tyler Moore Show from before and 30 Rock from later. It was considered the "smart" sitcom of its day, but was it something that truly inspired you?

What I'm trying to say is that, I wonder if Cheers was simply too tame/not edgy enough in comparison to more modern shows. Yet, it at the end of the day, also didn't have that "good old days", old fashioned nostalgic appeal like say, I Love Lucy or The Honeymooners.